"Blackface" Discussion

[ivaldo]

Because you can't claim that he is especially immersed in the culture and simultaneously that he would have no idea that this could be considered offensive. That's logically impossible, it's like claiming to be good at maths but not knowing basic arithmetic.

If ignorance is a defence (it isn't) then, surely, you can't simultaneously claim intimate knowledge?

I think more likely Griezmann was aware of it, but arrogant and ignorant enough to think that somehow he could do it and it would not be an issue. A mistake, maybe, but a bigger one than some would allow.

You're forgetting he's as thick as shit. Perhaps I should say he's immersing himself in certain aspects of black culture, I have no doubt in my mind AG hasn't a clue about black history.

He's not trying to be racist here. Otherwise posting it on social media is an incredibly ballsy move. Is he a dickhead who has offended huge quantities of people? Yes. Is he racist? No.

 

[notcool]

It's not really something that you do here either, it's not as big of a taboo as it is in the US but don't do it.

Why? I thought you French looked down on other cultures? Disappointing.

He should be allowed to do it even if he's in the USA. It's the complete opposite of what people are saying it is.

 

[Smores]

Only just finding out about it now... I'll educate myself on it though. Get the impression it's more of an American thing.

Sadly quite a British thing as well historically

 

[Sigma]

Probably not the best thing to do considering the history surrounding this, but don't think its too bad. He isn't portraying black people in a negative light. I wouldn't do it myself, but I didn't have a massive problem with Robert Downey, Jr. in Tropic Thunder and I don't have one here.

 

[Keeps It tidy]

Different cultures and exposure are to blame here, he obviously never meant to offend anyone but sadly for Antoine he has made a mistake here.

But let’s not destroy the kid, he always seems a decent fun guy to be around and if he knew the offence it would cause I’m 100% sure he wouldn’t do it.

He will be fine he will not face any real consequences for this.

 

[diarm]

The historical context of the USA, not France? Gotcha.

Because he was dressing up as that well known french basketball team - the Harlem Globetrotters.

People rolling out the Luis Suarez "it's different in his home country" lines here. If he wants to dress up as a US sports team and post pictures of it on a US website then responsibility for having even a passing comprehension of contentious US history lies with him. Being French isn't an excuse.

 

[OverratedOpinion]

I hope Atletico terminate his contract, within the next 14 days or so.

 

[JPRouve]

If you can agree that it is offensive I do not think it really matters if you were personally offended.

Yeah, I'm not offended but I know that he will here about that during his next trip in the US. It is offensive to a lot of people.

 

[notcool]

Did you quote the wrong post? If not, the feck are you talking about? The poster I was replying to said he was unaware of blackface. I aimed to clarify whether he was unaware of the term itself or its history. How is your sarcastic response in any way relevant? Did I, even once, say that was what Griezmann was doing? Why not think before posting next time?

I'm saying that other people are the ones who are ignorant because Antoine is clearly not doing that here.

You have to be a dumbass to think this is a funny idea regardless of the country you were born / live in.

Or you have to be a dumbass to think your cultural sensitivities apply. Or to be so hysterical as to get bent up by it.

 

[K2K]

You are right. It's not worth it

Thanks

 

[SalfordRed18]

If you can agree that it is offensive I do not think it really matters if you were personally offended.

How does that work? Anyone can say anything is offensive especially in this day and age. Surely it only matters if you're offended?

 

[SammyUnited_83]

Because he was dressing up as that well known french basketball team - the Harlem Globetrotters.

People rolling out the Luis Suarez "it's different in his home country" lines here. If he wants to dress up as a US sports team and post pictures of it on a US website then responsibility for having even a passing comprehension of contentious US history lies with him. Being French isn't an excuse.

What i wanted to write but you put it a lot better sir.

 

[Summit]

You are right. It's not worth it

Could you at least answer my final question to you before you go?

 

[Smores]

I'm saying that other people are the ones who are ignorant because Antoine is clearly not doing that here.


Or you have to be a dumbass to think your cultural sensitivities apply. Or to be so hysterical as to get bent up by it.

You'r arguing one has to be a dumbass to think a french guy should know not to black up because it's offensive? Really?

 

[JPRouve]

Why? I thought you French looked down on other cultures? Disappointing.

He should be allowed to do it even if he's in the USA. It's the complete opposite of what people are saying it is.

What is that supposed to mean. You think that people mocking blacks is limited to the US?

 

[SteveJ]

He's certainly guilty of patronisation, at best. From the 'coincidental' poor lighting on his face (in a well-lit corridor) to the 'comedy' hairstyle...it's mockery, whatever his views about race.

 

[hobbers]

Presumably a poll on whether we still want to sign him would be 90-100 perc yes?

 

[SammyUnited_83]

I'm saying that other people are the ones who are ignorant because Antoine is clearly not doing that here.


Or you have to be a dumbass to think your cultural sensitivities apply. Or to be so hysterical as to get bent up by it.

Wtf are you on about.

 

[notcool]

People rolling out the Luis Suarez "it's different in his home country" lines here. If he wants to dress up as a US sports team and post pictures of it on a US website then responsibility for having even a passing comprehension of contentious US history lies with him. Being French isn't an excuse.

Being American isn't an excuse. Why they don't stop being so loud and stop thinking their culture is the same as others? That's pretty ignorant. Why isn't it plain to them that what he is doing and what was done in THEIR country 80 years ago is a lot different with different intentions? That is ignorant.

 

[space]

Could you at least answer my final question to you before you go?

It has been answered on the last couple of pages already mate

 

[T00lsh3d]

I'm sorry but I think the time of ignorance being an acceptable excuse for putting something stupid on social media has long since passed.

These guys are public figures and are paid very well for it. They choose to have social media accounts for whatever personal or financial reasons, and as such, have chosen to be responsible for their actions on such a public medium.

Barely a week goes by without a twitter shit storm and as a public figure, especially one who draws a large percentage of his income from commercial sponsorship, the onus is on him to ensure he doesn't compromise himself.

I don't for a second believe that in this day and age, his club and management team haven't discussed appropriate use of social media. There really aren't that many things to focus on - it's not that hard to tweet while keeping a wide berth of racism, sexism, religion and politics.

I also don't for a second believe that in 2017, whether they've ever heard the term blackface or not, anybody paints their face black without pausing to wonder if there's a chance it will cause offence.

Only last year in Madrid, where Griezmann lives and plays, there was a huge controversy surrounding the tradition of blackface painting in the Three Kings Parade.

He chooses to use social media because it raises his profile and benefits him commercially. He chose to paint his face black at best, because he didn't bother to spend 10 seconds checking if it was suitable to do so and at worse because he knew it wasn't but didn't give a shit.

He is 100% responsible for any and all fallout from this. Anyone defending him should give their heads a wobble.

I've spent the last few years criticising twitter shitstorms and defending people at the centre of them but not any more. If you're famous and you get caught out at this stage you're at best an idiot and at worst actually fully deserving of the accusations.

Nailed it. Can't be bothered reading any further

 

[slir32]

What is the problem with this? The Globetrotters are legends.

 

[Summit]

It has been answered on the last couple of pages already mate

I must have missed it? Will look.

 

[notcool]

What is that supposed to mean. You think that people mocking blacks is limited to the US?

No, I just don't think that the way they mock blacks is the same. Do you think he's mocking blacks? Is that the joke? Is he saying: look, black people are stupid! lol!

 

[MrPooni]

If your entire argument hinges on pretending you don't know how to use Google and/or citing decade old films as some sort of deus ex machina that will automatically make your wilful ignorance seem palatable then I'm afraid history has left you behind.

 

[notcool]

You'r arguing one has to be a dumbass to think a french guy should know not to black up because it's offensive? Really?

You're telling me it's not like that? You have to know what it's like in his country before you can judge.

 

[Ban]

What is the problem with this? The Globetrotters are legends.

I think we need threadmarks.

 

[SammyUnited_83]

No, I just don't think that the way they mock blacks is the same. Do you think he's mocking blacks? Is that the joke? Is he saying: look, black people are stupid! lol!

Give it a rest and go to bed ffs.

 

[Keeps It tidy]

If your entire argument hinges on pretending you don't know how to use Google and/or citing decade old films as some sort of deus ex machina that will automatically make your wilful ignorance seem palatable then I'm afraid history has left you behind.

And it happens every single time we have a discussion like this on here.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

So many ignorant people in this thread.

 

[SteveJ]

The Globetrotters are legends.

He should've shaved all his hair off & gone as Curly. However, Griezmann's love for the Globetrotters didn't extend that far, so he opted for 'comedy black guy' instead.

 

[notcool]

Give it a rest and go to bed ffs.

You're getting sleepy, guy. Tuck up tight, nipper, it's cold out.

 

[saivet]

The historical context of the USA, not France? Gotcha.

It's hardly exclusive to the US. For example the first I knew about blackface was in reference to Zwarte Piet in Belgium and the Netherlands after reading a discussion on twitter quite a few years ago.

Probably the most known thing I can think of is golliwog in fact, which is well known enough in the UK.

 

[SammyUnited_83]

You're getting sleepy, guy. Tuck up tight, nipper, it's cold out.

Eh?

 

[notcool]

It's hardly exclusive to the US. For example the first I knew about blackface was in reference to Zwarte Piet in Belgium and the Netherlands after reading a discussion on twitter quite a few years ago.

And the interpretation is the same? The only reason people from the US think it's racist is because they are, in fact, racist. It's like with Suarez: the word 'black' in his country doesn't have any racial connotations to it in his country but because the English are racist themselves and use that word racially they think he was being racist. What's happening here is people are applying their cultural standards to Antoine and calling him ignorant. The fecking irony.

 

[notcool]

Eh?

Sleep tight, nipper.

 

[notcool]

Anyway, bored now. I think i've shown that my position is incontrovertibly correct. Bye, guys. Have fun.

 

[izec]

Terrible idea. He is not a racist, but he clearly didnt know the history behind it. Best to avoid this type of potential offensive situations in the future

 

[diarm]

Being American isn't an excuse. Why they don't stop being so loud and stop thinking their culture is the same as others? That's pretty ignorant. Why isn't it plain to them that what he is doing and what was done in THEIR country 80 years ago is a lot different with different intentions? That is ignorant.

Engaging with you might be like trying to talk sense into the lunatic screaming at a lamp post who you normally cross the road to avoid but here goes.

Blackface controversy has been commonplace in European news over the last few years. There has been huge backlash across the continent, especially in Spain, Portugal, Belgium and the Netherlands where campaigns have been largely successful in raising awareness, and reforming old traditions, often around Christmas time or other major festivals. It was a major story in Madrid last year, in the very city where Griezmann lives and works.

Failure to open a newspaper or familiarise yourself with current events is not an excuse for causing offence. It most certainly doesn't give you the right to claim other people are "ignorant" of all things just because they do.

 

[Ban]

Anyway, bored now. I think i've shown that my position is incontrovertibly correct. Bye, guys. Have fun.