Well, I am sure that is the best reply to come up with when you don't know what to say. Well done! Keep it up.
Blame Fergie! United chiefs believe Sir Alex Ferguson left cupboard bare for David Moyes
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) was joined by comedian Ali Woods to look back at the best and worst moments of a rollercoaster season with the annual United Hour Awards.
Has Ten Hag been sacked yet? We're not sure and we hope not, but it's looking more likely as the days pass.
Who should replace him and why is it taking so long to make a decision?
Depends on what we're trying to achieve. I don't think we have a squad to be consistently competitive in the later stages of the CL. I didn't think it last year either. At a rough guess, I'd think we'd need a new CB, LB, CM, Winger x 2, all of who are proper, top class players, before we'd be anywhere near the likes of Bayern, Madrid or Barca. That seems a pretty big rebuild to me. But obviously right now we'd all settle just for being competitive in the PL again and go from there.
This is disgusting, yes SAF did not address the midfield, but it isn't his fault that the forwards that scored for fun last season, have been out of form or injured. It's not his fault that the squads confidence is shot to bits and that some appear disinterested. He didn't tell Moyes to get shot of all the coaching staff. If this has been given out by the club they should be ashamed. SAF success has made the club and the owners a lot of money, they should be eternally grateful
The length the certain parts of the press will go to do defend Moyes is astounding.
When he is fired, not IF but WHEN he is fired, it's going to be interesting to see how it's spun.
When he is fired, not IF but WHEN he is fired, it's going to be interesting to see how it's spun.
The Glazers are behind a spin that implies we need a massive rebuild because they think it will be an excuse for not spending in the summer? Did that make sense when you typed it?
Theories like this all go out of the window when he won the league last season and just missed out on GD the season before. Yes we can all see the squad isn't at Bayern's level but its more than capable of challenging for the league title.
Fair enough. I disagree that the Glazers would go through such an intricate way of lessening SAF's influence though. I find it unlikely they would be willing to sacrifice CL revenue and take a hit on the international stature of the brand through a season or two or mediocrity when they could just have hired someone else. Unless they were genuinely afraid that SAF would go to the media and voice his skepticism though, but then we are moving into speculation based on nothing again.
At the start of the season we definitely needed just a bit of tinkering. As the season has gone on it has got worse and worse. Are we seeing the players in true form or with a new manager will they go back to previous form?
Yeah but I'm half jarred so don't mind me.
The problem with if the Glazers are putting this theory forward is that it will give Moyes even more time. Comings and goings, don't want to disrupt the squad too much, the World Cup. You can see it all now. I hope I am wrong.
some people take papers too seriously..
Nah, I don't think so. I just think Fergie, because he's an utter genius, was able to mask those issues. I think Rio, Vidic and Evra would all have been better under him, but still nowhere near their best. We'd still have lacked a top midfield and we'd still have underperforming wingers. None of those are new issues. It's just that now, without the Fergie cheat mode enabled, those problems are more apparent. That said, had Fergie stayed, I have no doubts he could have solved most of those issues without any great fuss or battle for 7th place.
Fair play. I should use that disclaimer more often. Especially when I'm positing after a CL game!
He'd have given the confidence for a start.
I disagree with this. It will totally depend on the manager. Its like how rubbish John Terry was last season, his knees looked shot, his career looked over and now under Mourinho he's back to being a really good centre half.
People talk about Cleverely and Carrick but who was complaining about Cleverley and Carrick last year after we won at Wastelands and Stamford Bridge with them in a two man midfield? A lot of our squad are bereft of confidence. They are playing for a manager they don't trust, a manager they have heard call them mentally soft, a manager who talks with glee about signing players to replace them...its like any other work place in the world. If your boss is a man who makes you feel like crap you will perform like crap. They've gone from having the best man manager in the game in Fergie, who made them feel like champions, to someone with the emotional intelligence of Rafa Benitez.
If they had a manager who could inspire them. This squad of players would be easily capable of producing much better than we've seen from them this season. The impact a man manager like Mourinho would have had on this team or someone with the aura of Pep Guardiola or the quiet reassurance of Carlo Ancellotti...can't believe all three were allowed to change clubs last summer without us trying to get any.
But I'm not disagreeing with any of that. What I'm saying is that, having gotten rid of Fergie and chosen Moyes as his successor, these are the things we have to put up with. What I mentioned above about Fergie would also be true of the likes of Guardio,a Mourinho or probably Klopp.
As for the midfield, I like Carrick and Cleverley but neither is so good that we couldn't replace them with a better player, confidence or not. Carrick and Cleverley, even on their best days, won't be able to go toe-to-toe with, say, a Bayern midfield. There's no shame in that. It's just the reality for pretty much every club in the world. And without one of those managers who makes players better than they are, that can make them look a bit pedestrian against really good sides.
I'm guessing most will back Moyes and criticise big bad Man United for not sticking with their "legacy" of standing by their managers.
Yeah fair points. Based on raw ability a lot of our players, especially in midfield, would never get near the first XI of the other teams in the last 8 of this year's European Cup. The thing that has really done for us is that, as you say, we no longer have one of those managers who can inspire players to be better than they are. In fact, we have one of those managers whose negativity makes players feel and play badly...
As it took us 5 managers to get from Busby to Ferguson we do sack managers. I love the way the media have forgotten that. We will get stick, ungrateful, spoilt fans that we are.
Yeah. I think most of us expected to lose that Fergie factor that elevated the players, but not as many expected Moyes to actively make the players worse, almost to a man. That for me is the most damning indictment. He also looks like he doesn't have a clue how to use either of his two signings, or at least appears to have no willingness to play them in arguably their best positions. In that case, why buy them at all?
Ferguson is not above criticism, but as for blame the only thing he can blamed for is appointing Moyes.
Ah then Fergie would have made those necessary improvements gradually so as to avoid the sort of disruption that many fear we shall face this summer. The signings of Kagawa the season previous and our alleged pursuit of Alcantara are certainly suggestive of a degree of renewal being under way. I also highly doubt that we'd be losing three or perhaps even four of our defenders in a single transfer window either, yet that is precisely what Moyes is contemplating.
Again, all good points. Sadly, David Moyes would have to be a member of the CAF for us to get any real answers to them. Heaven knows we'll never get any sense out of the United PR machine that's for sure.
It's not ideal. But parts of the perceived clear-out we're facing is surely inevitable. All three of Rio, Vidic and Evra look past it. Had Fergie remained in charge he would've gotten more out of them and he would have phased them out more smoothly. But Moyes really hasn't been in a position to do this - no manager would have been.
Rio was in theory a great veteran to keep on board - in reality he now looks ready to retire and has done so all season. Vidic's injury issues make him a very unpredictable entity - a bit of a headache of a player, really. Still bloody good on his day but unable to feature in any regular set-up back there. Evra is in practice our captain and a great figure in the dressing room - but he too has looked well past it at times this season. Three great servants, then, whom nobody in his right mind would've kicked out last June (imagine the uproar if Moyes had done this) - and yet three players who needs replacing now, evidently so. It's a tricky situation - would have been so for any manager, I think.
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/should-the-new-manager-get-rid-of-the-old-guard.370353/
I made this thread back in summer, so I don't think that I can be labeled as captain hindsight if I say it now. I thought back then that he should have get rid of them ASAP. Probably I wasn't in the right mind.
The Glazers have trusted SAF from the start and he has never let them down. So when they need advice on the next United manager the obvious football expert to ask was their football genius manager. Its hard to blame anyone other than Moyes.
Nostradamus points for you, my friend. And I agree - ideally he probably should have done just that. Simply and ruthlessly. But, of course, he would have needed to bring someone in as well. He was after Baines, we know that. But seeing how the season has progressed both Vidic and Rio have been needed in terms of sheer numbers - our old habit of having pretty much all our CBs out injured at the same time hasn't failed us this season either.
And then there's the principle of giving everyone a season, assessing the squad, etc.
But, yes - I agree. If I had been United's manager on July 1st last year I think I would have gone for the ruthless approach. Get rid of both Vidic and Rio, at least, and gone for a brand new main CB pairing from round one, using the season to determine whether Jones/Smalling/Evans are actually up to scratch or whether we need to buy a new, first choice CB.
Rubbish article that makes tall and baseless claims without going into enough to detail on even one them.Tweet
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Its hard to read this and not think someone at United has briefed its content to Ladyman, which makes it disgraceful.
Whoever it was misjudged the anger some fans directed at Fergie during the City loss. Just because there are a few supporters (more than a few maybe) that blame Fergie for getting Moyes the job, that does not mean they will blame Fergie for Moyes' mistakes.
Nobody is going to believe that Moyes has been so busy 'fixing' a United set up that has produced title after title, that he couldn't work with the team on developing a tactic besides getting to the byline...
We should have a poll to see how many us actually believe in this 'war chest' that Moyes will supposedly have in the summer. All season long fans are rabbiting on about how we are going to spend 150 million in the summer, how Moyes is the wrong man to spend it and the club have fueled this idea all along that this summer we will spend big. I would be STUNNED if United spend more than 60/70 million next summer. If that. Lets have a poll. How much do you think United will spend on transfers this summer. I bet it proves that most of us are deluded and the Glazer PR machine has been leading us on a merry dance on season. Thats what this Blame Fergie article is all about. Setting us for the inevitable 'these problems can't be solved with money' narrative...
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I agree with this, you could tell there wasn't an urgency to bring in new players as we just won the league by a canter. I'm quite disappointed that anyone could blame fergie for our misfortunes. Yes the squad wasn't perfect by any means but it only needed tweaking to take us to the next level.
How about this for a thought. Moyes was brought in because the Glazers thought he could do things on the cheap. And how about this for another thought. They still do.
You still on the gargle, Rory? They've just sanctioned almost 70 million quid to spend on two players.
Lol. No and I wasn't gargling earlier either. Just not able to pay too much attention to my posts which is always dangerous.
They have indeed spend 70 million. 27 during the one summer when they REALLY should have spent big to start the new manager off with a bang. And 42 on Mata when they needed to do something to try stop the rot.
All I'm saying is I really can't see them spending 100/150 mill during the summer. I think thats a yarn they've been spinning all along.
Do you not agree with me about Moyes being brought in to do things on the cheap? That's the whole Moyes appeal, keeping Everton afloat on a shoestring. I'm convinced that's the appeal for the Glazers originally.
I'm pretty sure that's why when they heard Moyes name from SAF the Glazers were absolutely delighted and is probably why they didn't feel the need for interviews etc. He's the perfect Soccernomics manager. He doesn't whine about transfer budgets and he gives value for money on the wages/League position equation. Or at least he did at Everton.
Personally I think they would have been happy to get a manager who would quietly take a third highest wage bill club, keep it in the CL and bring home the odd trophy. A potential Wenger let's say. Commercial income would be safe and it would lead to no big traumas on the field, no mass exodus of players, no anger in the stands - a quiet, and inexpensive success story.
The trouble is that he wasn't supposed to drop out of the CL places. That spoils the entire plan, unless of course it's because poor old Moyes took over a poisoned chalice and we'll have to lower our ambitions for a while while we evolve into a 2014 organisation. Maybe sometime around 2018 say.
We're going to lose 4 players on free transfers/retiring, plus presumably sell another 3-4 first teamers and a handful of youth players. We'll be freeing up a lot of wages and probably recouping 30m+ in transfer fees. I think it's a real possibility that we will spend 100m+ in the summer.
It does not make financial sense for the Glazers for United to NOT being competing for the title and playing in the CL.
It does not make financial sense for the Glazers for United to NOT being competing for the title and playing in the CL.
The bold part is an even bigger worry. I would seriously hope that is not what the Glazers have in mind. Our commercial income is directly based on our success on the field. If we do an Arsenal and simply become happy to be on the periphery as a top four club, our sponsors would obviously not be happy. Most of them, when coming on board, keep harping about how happy they are to be associated with a club that is synonymous with winning. I am sure they wouldn't take it too lightly if that winning is suddenly replaced by being just a top four club.
After finally using my brain to figure out how to post images on the forum, I feel this chart is very worth reminding ourselves of. THIS is the reason the Glazers went for Moyes in my opinion.
Which brings me back to my earlier posts - IF that daily mail article is PR spin from the Glazers we should really question what their agenda is....
That is precisely what the Glazers had in mind. Now the narrative is Ferguson left the place in sh1t (a lie) and our new manager will need 'a long time' to rebuild. Just watch lads. There will be no war chest, there will be no 100 million spent in the summer, there may still be DM (depending on the next couple of weeks) but this post hits the nail on the head. Its time we as supporters wised up to the way the future of our club is being spun by our owners...
Yep. He didn't leave a squad in a perfect situation, but how often has it been over the past 20 years? We're fine, or at least we would have been with a manager who knows what he's doing. He would have had a good squad, and also time and money to add to it in the summer of 2013.
I don't see it adding up, though. If things continue as they are, Moyes would cost a whole lot more than he saves.