Blaming Woodward and all those above Ole

shamans

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We should have waited till the season was over, it would have been smart that way. It was a naive move to sign him without achieving top 4.

If replacing manager alone would have made us successful then how come after replacing 3 managers and wanting to replace 4th and still we are not successful. By just having a bad chairman making bad footballing decision we are just hoping for luck. The club right now is just hopeful that Ole somehow weaves his magic. What is even a guarantee the same bad chairman will get it right this time. Ole may not be the answer and should be let go but I do not trust this board to make a smart decision because if they were smart then they would have already hired a competent manager.
Look at where all three of those managers are now. They were wrong appointments. Woodward does get blame for two of them but I really feel like at the time LVG and Mourinho were not bad decisions.

The long term contract given to Mou was bad. Appointing Ole before the end of the season was too. You have to remember, these decisions were celebrated so it wasn't as easy.

Still, the current big gaping hole is the manager. Woodward by no means deserves his place. I don't think we instantly improve if we sack him though. Sacking Ole would improve us right now imo -- he is the glaring weakness
 
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AshRK

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Look at where all three of those managers are now. They were wrong appointments. Woodward does get blame for two of them but I really feel like at the time LVG and Mourinho were not bad decisions.

The long term contract given to Mou was bad. Appointing Ole before the end of the season was too. You have to remember, these decisions were celebrated so it wasn't as easy.

Still, the current big gaping hole is the manager. Woodward by means deserves his place. I don't think we instantly improve if we sack him though. Sacking Ole would improve us right now imo -- he is the glaring weakness
It depends on what you constitute as improve because even sacking Jose also improved us briefly. I feel there needs to be a proper structure in this club. Woodward has too much power and so far he has shown very little that he knows about the game. We need to have a proper plan before we make our next move. I also think fans need to show some patience and admit the route to success may be long and may also not be pretty but if we have a proper plan and a right man leading we may get to our destination eventually.

I really hope the club does not panic and hires another wrong manager ala Allegri and have a proper plan B if in case they don't get their first target. The important thing is not to just sack Ole, it is to hire a competent person who can work with the current squad and also build on that with his ideas.
 

KekiZeki

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Maybe blame them because they're at fault? Our problems are more than a year old, in fact, if our problems were a child it would've been problematic child in school today!
 

steffyr2

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Look at how many of Mourinho's players were worth their transfer fee and our wagebill. Spending another 200 million on players who will be past it in max 2 years is a gamble. Maybe they expected Mourinho to act like a profressional and work with what he already had.
Who makes those judgements with no football people there? Sorry, i don't see any fancy cost/ benefit analysis, just people who thought they could get by and pocket the money.
And maybe they thought Jose wouldn't mind not having a chance at winning the league.... they were wrong about that also.
 

ShinjiNinja26

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It’s obvious Woodward and the Glazers are to blame for the majority of the clubs problems but I think people complain about the manager more simply because that’s the only thing that can really change. The owners aren’t getting rid of the man that helped them buy the club in the first place and they certainly aren’t going to sack themselves no matter how many people complain and protest, so that leaves the manager and fans are just hoping we can stumble across the next Fergie who can bring success back to United despite the owners.
 

Wednesday at Stoke

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Clowns like Ed Woodward and Matt Judge have ruined bigger institutions than Manchester United. It feels sadly inevitable.
 

Suedesi

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Anyone defending Edward Woodward needs a good smack in the back of the head. The man is an incompetent buffoon running this football club to the ground.
 

Pipan

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Defending the guy who was moaning about how hard it is to complete 3 signings in a summer? Which is his bloody job?

Sorry can't agree.
This!

Everybody knows we need a rebuild. And other clubs like Man City can consistently make 6-7 signings per summer. Woodward revealed he is incompetent. We need a good director of football desperately.
 

jamesjimmybyrondean

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I haven't read through this thread but it's where I think my question can be answered.

I've been thinking people attack Woodward as he's the reason we're in this mess but in the end it's the players and coach that perform on the pitch. We've hard 4 different managers so far since Ferguson and Woodward have signed the players the each of the wanted bar Mourinho last season.

So isn't it possible that we've backed the wrong managers 4 times and this is the reason we're in this mess. If Ferguson was our manager, Woodward will sign the players he wanted and we know how well that will pan out. So have we just been backing the wrong managers?

But then I start thinking again that this whole mess started in 2013 which is when Woodward was appointed CEO and we have been terrible ever since. We've also had 4 different managers but the one constant or common factor that has remained all though our disastrous 6 years has been Woodward.
 

Judas

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If you defend Woodward in January 2020 you're off your rocker. Even if we ever get it right under him (doubtful), he'll still deserve zero praise due to the time and money he's wasted along the way.
 

red thru&thru

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I haven't read through this thread but it's where I think my question can be answered.

I've been thinking people attack Woodward as he's the reason we're in this mess but in the end it's the players and coach that perform on the pitch. We've hard 4 different managers so far since Ferguson and Woodward have signed the players the each of the wanted bar Mourinho last season.

So isn't it possible that we've backed the wrong managers 4 times and this is the reason we're in this mess. If Ferguson was our manager, Woodward will sign the players he wanted and we know how well that will pan out. So have we just been backing the wrong managers?

But then I start thinking again that this whole mess started in 2013 which is when Woodward was appointed CEO and we have been terrible ever since. We've also had 4 different managers but the one constant or common factor that has remained all though our disastrous 6 years has been Woodward.
From my pov, it is nothing personal with Ed. He has tried his best. At the end of the day, he's the gall guy. However, if he is the man in charge, he has to bear the responsibility. The whole club is his responsibility and the football isn't functioning. He has been in charge for over 6 years now and has tried a lot but he needs help. He may have gone looking for help, with the likes of Rangnick, Mitchell et al, and just not been successful.

However, he his press briefings just smack as plain stupidity.
 

ShinjiNinja26

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Wow.....a club that's rebuilding
It’s a disgrace! There should’ve been at least 5 in last summer, another 2 in this window and then see where we are in the summer maybe bring in another 2 or 3 where needed, getting rid of any deadwood or players that don’t want to be here in the process.
 

Litch

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It’s a disgrace! There should’ve been at least 5 in last summer, another 2 in this window and then see where we are in the summer maybe bring in another 2 or 3 where needed, getting rid of any deadwood or players that don’t want to be here in the process.
We have the only 2 fit CM in the club (not including the youth) and the rest won't be back for months and Ole still talking about the right targets for the right money? This is beyond rebuilding, this is now a necessity.
 

ShinjiNinja26

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We have the only 2 fit CM in the club (not including the youth) and the rest won't be back for months and Ole still talking about the right targets for the right money? This is beyond rebuilding, this is now a necessity.
I think it’s clear the board just don’t want to spend, Ole keeps pushing the “if the right players become available” line cause he knows he’s got feck all to spend. It’s easy when no one knows who these right players are so when the club signs no one they can just say the right ones weren’t available and nobody can prove otherwise.
 

Litch

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I think it’s clear the board just don’t want to spend, Ole keeps pushing the “if the right players become available” line cause he knows he’s got feck all to spend. It’s easy when no one knows who these right players are so when the club signs no one they can just say the right ones weren’t available and nobody can prove otherwise.
Agree. It's funny cause we have also seen how Ole waiting for the right player strategy has already played out this month, he was right for Ole but the player choose to go to Dortmund instead.....
 

dove

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I absolutely don't get "Until we sack Ed, no manager could do better than Ole" nonsense. Ed is not very good at his job (from football POV), that's obvious. But he doesn't coach the team or pick starting XI. That's 100% down to our management team. The biggest thing related to management that Ed is at fault is hiring wrong managers and not sacking them at the right time. How Ole is still in this job is beyond me. Did Liverpool's board suddenly became great when they hit a jackpot with Klopp? They were quite useless before that, and they are not that great in the transfer market either. Klopp constantly needs to wait for his players and sometimes they miss out, just like us. We constantly spend a lot of money in the transfer market (say whatever you want but we do), is it his fault the players we sign suck? He obviously trusts manager's and scouts judgement on that. I am not defending him, he should sack Ole and then immediately sack himself for the good of the club but some of the criticism he gets just to excuse our failing managers is ridiculous.
 

Preggy99

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I've had enough of people shoving all the blame on Ed Woodward and defending Ole with this whole "until Woodward resigns". Complete nonsense. I'm not here to say Woodward has done a great or even good job but it is nowhere near the incompetency Ole has shown.

Woodward backed every LVG transfer till the end. Backed Mourinho with all sorts of players he wanted that turned out to be garbage. Mourinho was not backed for one season because of his failed transfer record. Yes Woodward made a mistake giving Mourinho that long contract and I said it back then as well but at the time it did make sense.

Now he has made (in hindsight) the mistake of appointing Ole but put yourself in Woodwards shoes. Imagine not giving Ole the contract back then and getting another manager in who may also have failed. We would have slaughtered Woodward for "what could have been" with how Ole was winning every game. Still, Woodward does take some blame for not giving him a shorter contract or waiting till the end of the season.

When it comes to summer 2019 transfers I simply do not understand how Ed Woodward is getting the blame. Time and time again, press conference after press conference Ole has shown his naive approach when it comes to judging players. Ole truly believed we would be fine going in this season with youth like Greenwood and Perreira. Okay, Wan Bissaka Maguire and James are good transfers but they cost a fortune -- any of us could have known Wan Bissaka or Maguire would be good fits. A top manager would (such as Poch) would find a low price bargain. Someone like a Soyuncu.

Ole chose to let Fellaini and Lukaku go and replace them with youngsters from the academy. If Ole identified targets such as Dybala, Bale and/or Modric and the board failed to get them that is not the boards fault. Identifying world class players can be done by any of us on here. The manager failing to identify realistic targets is another blunder on his part.

Furthermore, Woodward is not to blame for Ole playing Perreira on the wings, Mata on the right and back three's when we don't need it.

Yeah feck Woodward but Ole's failure has nothing to do with him. We can be a very successful club even with a shitty board.
To be fair they both need to go. Don't think the club will pull the trigger on Ole until the end of season though and it will be a mutual consent thing. Woodward is not the man to be running everything transfer related though, he is pretty incompetent in that regard. He needs to stick purely to the commercial side and get a DOF with the next permanent manager to work with the scouting system and bring in quality up and coming players who we unearth relatively cheap. We cannot have clubs all around Europe having our pants down and us paying way over the odds for players.
 

Schmeichel's Cartwheel

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I hate Ed Woodward but you've got a point here. Ole is getting a very easy ride given his record. Isn't it something like a 30% win record? Crazy.
 

sparx99

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Woodward’s arrogance is a major factor. Numerous people from LVG to Raiola and the Class or ‘92 have spoken about how he wants to be the guy doing the glamorous stuff like signing players and hiring managers.

Humility is a massive strength for any leader and knowing when to delegate to specialists is how you maximise a team.

We have been crying out for a DOF or Sporting Director and Ole’s honeymoon period have Woodward another way to hold onto power he isn’t qualified to have.

With our resources and prestige and the exciting prospect of rebuilding Man Utd the best DOF in the game would be interested. A competent CEO would headhunt one of those to turn us around.

Javier Ribalta left us for that role at Zenit. Luis Campos has shown interest. Throw all the money at Monchi or Paratici. In business you would look at the most successful guys in that role and try to headhunt them. Unfortunately we have an egomaniac at the top who will not step away from it.
 

ShinjiNinja26

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I hate Ed Woodward but you've got a point here. Ole is getting a very easy ride given his record. Isn't it something like a 30% win record? Crazy.
Woodward’s giving him an easy ride as much as anyone though, had it been Moyes or any other manager they’d have been shown the door by now with a record like that but cause he’s a club legend he gets different treatment cause the fans are a lot less likely to turn on him therefore keeping the heat off the board.
 

Gehrman

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Woodward’s arrogance is a major factor. Numerous people from LVG to Raiola and the Class or ‘92 have spoken about how he wants to be the guy doing the glamorous stuff like signing players and hiring managers.

Humility is a massive strength for any leader and knowing when to delegate to specialists is how you maximise a team.

We have been crying out for a DOF or Sporting Director and Ole’s honeymoon period have Woodward another way to hold onto power he isn’t qualified to have.

With our resources and prestige and the exciting prospect of rebuilding Man Utd the best DOF in the game would be interested. A competent CEO would headhunt one of those to turn us around.

Javier Ribalta left us for that role at Zenit. Luis Campos has shown interest. Throw all the money at Monchi or Paratici. In business you would look at the most successful guys in that role and try to headhunt them. Unfortunately we have an egomaniac at the top who will not step away from it.
When I think about the boss at Man utd, the image I get is Ed Woodward. It's awful.
 

GBBQ

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We have the only 2 fit CM in the club (not including the youth) and the rest won't be back for months and Ole still talking about the right targets for the right money? This is beyond rebuilding, this is now a necessity.
We're in this situation because we signed the wrong players for the past 7 years. I don't believe ole is the right manager, I think Woodward is out of his depth and needs a proper footballing structure in place to make decisions BUT there's no point adding more mercenaries or unwanted players to the team just to kick the problem another 6-12 months down the road. if the answer is to buy 2020's version of Matic / Fellaini now I'd rather we wait and write this season off and bring in actual good players who can change us in the summer. I think that the type of player that can make a difference are unlikely to be available and we don't have the luxury that Liverpool have in taking a punt on a Minamino type signing.
 

OleTheGreat

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I've been saying this since day 1. We always love Ole for what he did for us when he was playing but long gone are those days when just around 70 goals would win us the league. United have had identity crisis for 6 seasons now. I'm not just blaming the board or Ed for this but it is partially their mistake too. When you appoint a new manager, backing him means believing in his system and working around his ideas. What was biggest mistake was when we handed over the responsibilities to Moyes. He took us so far down the table, we vanished from our beloved status to a mere mid-table team. Since then, all our managers have been somewhat arrogant and misleading. Let's forget what happened with Moyes, LVG and Mourinho but Ole thinks he'll get the adrenaline pumping back again because he thinks he'll get the respect from the players but what he forgets is, we need to start being a forward thinking team.

Why don't managers just think about our players and our academy players and think of a way that will suit the system,

AWB VL HM LS
SM
Fred PP
James AM MR

A 4-3-3 system that could accommodate all our players and always take us one step closer to being stable and confident but the loss of Pogba has set us straight back to 4-2-3-1 which is quite annoying. What's worse now, we're thinking of a replacement for a number 10 role which shouldn't have existed in the first place. Our morale has gone so far low that we get beat if we don't get to keep the ball. I mean some teams will let you play and still be so organized not to allow you to pierce them but some teams will just take on you and finish the job. What's wrong with our system is, we cannot sit deep because there is no counter pressing and when we do get the ball, we want space to run into or we go backwards and then sideways and then lose our momentum. I have ached for us to play some audacious passes for years now and i am completely bored of my mind. I think we don't own a talent that can completely change our fortunes and even if we do, they don't wanna play for us anymore because of our level at the moment. The fix is not going to be simple and it is going to take another complete season to fix this and even if so, i don't think things will change unless we start playing regardless of the opponents or their strategy. Right now, we're doomed!
 

Foxbatt

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Of course Woodward is to blame for this mess at United. The buck stops with him for getting incompetent managers . The Jose saga also started with Woodward.
 

Im red2

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Ed Woodward is the problem that Manchester United have, unfortunately he is also the favourite guy of the owners. So we have a major problem, how do we manage to shake off this idiot when he is backed by the owners? He has had almost 10 years to show how useless he is . And he has succeeded in showing that he is really useless in footballing terms. He is still in charge at the club and is currently preparing to feck up our next chance of signing players. What will he do this time to feck us up? guessing game.
 

fergiesarmy1

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Ed Woodward is the problem that Manchester United have, unfortunately he is also the favourite guy of the owners. So we have a major problem, how do we manage to shake off this idiot when he is backed by the owners? He has had almost 10 years to show how useless he is . And he has succeeded in showing that he is really useless in footballing terms. He is still in charge at the club and is currently preparing to feck up our next chance of signing players. What will he do this time to feck us up? guessing game.
It’s catch 22 unfortunately- he sacks yet another manager and appoints another that fails inevitably that would be difficult to ride.

Sells Pogba for way less than expected, heads will turn.

Spends big again? Easier to buy the Daniel James type transfers if they go wrong no one is bothered about £20m that much anymore.

Only way he is going is if the sponsors walk, that’s up to the fans but we’re not as organised as the Germans for example, boycotts? Can’t even tell the difference these days as 1500 will stay in the can bar or dog for a bit longer then go game.

We be stuck between a rock and a hard place unfortunately
 

Wednesday at Stoke

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The only place we are stuck is with owners who have no interest in football and a major interest in profit.
The owners are absolute morons. They have left Woodward to fumble around with no oversight and watched him commit one blunder after another while wasting close to a billion to end up with the squad which is threadbare and lacking quality in all areas of the pitch. If their interest is profit, they're not even maximising it. Bringing proper football people would have saved them a ton of coin while also putting a decent product on the pitch.
 

red thru&thru

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Has anyone actually seen Ed since the Sheffield United game, where it was being reported he was having a spat with SAF and Gill?
 

Josep Dowling

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People need to realise it’s not just one person’s fault. The board, manager, coaches, scouts and players are all part of the problem.

Board - Woodward knows nothing about football, Judge offers ridiculous long term contracts to undeserving players, only has the job because he went uni with Woodward.

Manager - not qualified at this level. Tactically inept and inexperienced.

Coaches - the likes of Carrick have been coaches for only a couple of years yet got a job here. How about hiring the best coaches in the world rather than someone who was an ex player.

Scouts - haven’t identified the right players for years, haven’t unearthed a cheap decent players for years. James is shite before anyone argues him, has done nothing for months - relegation battling winger at best.

Players - clearly not working at even 90% in most games. There is a real lack of effort in a lot of our losses. And basics like pass and move doesn’t seem to apply to many. There is a real attitude problem in the squad.
 

jamesjimmybyrondean

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Honestly the best thing for the club is a reset and that means changing owners. The only way that can happen so far is if the Saudis buy. But nobody wants that and there's little chance of that even happening. So best believe we're stuck with the glazer, Woodward, Judge, the medical staff, the scouts etc. So my question is now given we're stuck with this incompetent people how can we get back to glory under their management?
 

VP

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I hope Glazers and Woodward get stuck in an elevator and are forced to watch reruns of tonight's match. Fecking pricks are ruining United.
 

Stepney73

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Honestly the best thing for the club is a reset and that means changing owners. The only way that can happen so far is if the Saudis buy. But nobody wants that and there's little chance of that even happening. So best believe we're stuck with the glazer, Woodward, Judge, the medical staff, the scouts etc. So my question is now given we're stuck with this incompetent people how can we get back to glory under their management?

Who said nobody wants the Saudis.

Some dont and some would have them here tomorrow (including me)

More and more damage is being done to the club year on year by the glazers.just look at last nights team and tell me one player that would have got into the team the day they took over.

As of today It's going to take about 5 years for any new owners to undo the mess that this lot have created and if they are here longer you can double that.
 

croadyman

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People need to realise it’s not just one person’s fault. The board, manager, coaches, scouts and players are all part of the problem.

Board - Woodward knows nothing about football, Judge offers ridiculous long term contracts to undeserving players, only has the job because he went uni with Woodward.

Manager - not qualified at this level. Tactically inept and inexperienced.

Coaches - the likes of Carrick have been coaches for only a couple of years yet got a job here. How about hiring the best coaches in the world rather than someone who was an ex player.

Scouts - haven’t identified the right players for years, haven’t unearthed a cheap decent players for years. James is shite before anyone argues him, has done nothing for months - relegation battling winger at best.

Players - clearly not working at even 90% in most games. There is a real lack of effort in a lot of our losses. And basics like pass and move doesn’t seem to apply to many. There is a real attitude problem in the squad.
Yeah and you can also add paying far too higher wages to Matt Judge's list of failures and the problem with that is when it comes to trying to sell players other clubs aren't willing to match those figures and we end up lumbered with the players for eternity.

The other area you haven't mentioned that I feel needs a complete restructure is the medical team because we need to carry out a thorough investigation into why our players seem to constantly pick up injuries and can't seem to last for a full 90 minutes.
 
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kafta

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Looking at the whole 6+ years since SAF retired, the majority of the blame has to be on Ed Woodward for his persistence in not changing the club structure and admitting he is out of his depth. The blame also falls on the owners for not making it an absolute priority to be successful on the pitch and not grading Woodward for his decisions in manager selection and club position, and for not letting the club spend the money its made to strengthen and get back to competing.

There are tons of example including Moyes's 6 year contract, the Rooney renewal, the Mourinho renewal, Herera's contract, Jones's contract, buying Fellaini for a higher fee after acting too late, labeling Maguire too expensive and buying him one year later, not strengthening midfield, selling Lukaku and not signing a replacement etc...

On the pitch, Ole's job is already very tough due to the state we are in, but there is no doubt that we are not progressing like we should. Our players look badly coached, lack desire, lack a certain style of play and play with no intensity. We are largely inconsistent, the Pogba situation which was blamed on Mourinho is still ongoing.

Finally, and what really shows where this club is currently at, the market is open and we show no urgency, even after two of our only three midfielders are out for weeks or months. We should have players lined up and ready to sign on January 1st. We talk about the market being tough like we are West Ham or Watford, finding it hard to compete.

I worry that the damage that has been done to this club by all the incompetent and disinterested parties involved will take decades to fix.