Blooding youth is great

cyberman

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They have though. They’ve played far too much and none of them have any business being near the first team at the moment.

I’m not interested in any of them at this point in time.
Greenwood has come on as sub but who else are we blooding? Nothing cup games?
 

Full bodied red

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Far too much romaticism on here about ' Youth ' and our history.

From what I've seen of the current crop, Tuanzebe has a chance of a decent EPL career.

Perhaps Greenwood, eventually, but it's still way too early to tell.

The rest of them will be extremely lucky to manage 100 EPL games between them because they're not really very good except in OGS's mind.
 

Mark Pawelek

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Far too much romaticism on here about ' Youth ' and our history.

From what I've seen of the current crop, Tuanzebe has a chance of a decent EPL career.

Perhaps Greenwood, eventually, but it's still way too early to tell.

The rest of them will be extremely lucky to manage 100 EPL games between them because they're not really very good except in OGS's mind.
Not romanticism here. Tired of the same old squad players putting in sub-par performances. The best youth prospects here can't be worse than squaddies putting in 3 out of 10 performances.
 

edgar allan

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You can't throw on 18 year olds on to the pitch without proper instructions/coaching, and tell them to 'run and attack and move quickly'. No matter how good they are, if they don't know what to do (and they probably won't since they have no experience) they will look terrible. Rashford is better than this. We have seen it. Greenwood, Gomes, James, Martial are all better than this and they can improve by a huge margin. But I don't think they'll do it under Ole. He is tactically naive and cannot tell the players how to set up attacking moves.

Lampard at Chelsea is doing what we thought Ole would - without having spent 100m on defenders. This Chelsea team looks good going forward - they have patterns of play. Mount and Tammy know where to be and how to move and whom to pick out for a pass. I thought Ole would coach us into an attacking side of a similar ilk - but he's absolutely lost and his players are all regressing.

I agree with the OP. This is doing our kids more harm than good. AZ were better coached with their youth players yesterday, FFS.
Chelsas young players went out on loan and gained experience of playing a decent standard and if good enough got a chance. Throwing players in direct from u23s is madness for all but the exceptional.
 

Acquire Me

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Baffling isn't it

It really is like the likes of Matic, Mata and Fred bring others down just by being on the same pitch as them
Matic, Mata and Fred should have a good long rest now. Fred could maybe act as Fred The Red at best.
 

romufc

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Greenwood has come on as sub but who else are we blooding? Nothing cup games?
Exactly, I have been arguing with another poster that Lamps is blooding more youth.

The fact that we have a young squad anyway doesn't mean they are youth. Greenwood is the only one and people say it is too soon and shouldn't start.

But what my argument is what difference is is when he is in the matchday squad, comes on when 1-0 down at 60 mins.

Why not give him a chance to start ?
 

Full bodied red

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Not romanticism here. Tired of the same old squad players putting in sub-par performances. The best youth prospects here can't be worse than squaddies putting in 3 out of 10 performances.

You're absolutely right about our squad players. And the fact that the youngsters ' couldn't be worse '.

But are they likely to be sufficiently better ? I'm not convinced that they are. Not yet, anyway.

But right now...Today...These youngsters are probably not good enough and we really do need something, someone, better than what they have to offer before this season sinks into a nightmare of Woodward's own making.
 

Mark Pawelek

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Exactly, I have been arguing with another poster that Lamps is blooding more youth.
No he's not. Lamps is giving already blooded players time. Those players all have a season or two on loan; often in the Championship. Chelsea have dozens of such players on their books. We have Tuanzebe and TFM (who's injured).
 

Mark Pawelek

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You're absolutely right about our squad players. And the fact that the youngsters ' couldn't be worse '.

But are they likely to be sufficiently better ? I'm not convinced that they are. Not yet, anyway.

But right now...Today...These youngsters are probably not good enough and we really do need something, someone, better than what they have to offer before this season sinks into a nightmare of Woodward's own making.
I'd rather see Gomes ahead of Mata, and Garner ahead of Matic or Fred. We'll find out whether they are better or worse by playing them. Mata is a passenger anyhow.
 

Buster15

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Introducing young players has to be for the right reason and not just because they are young.
You have to be very careful about when and how this is done.
A struggling team is not a great environment for some especially when confidence is as low as it is now.
But...you know what they say. Cometh the hour cometh the man, or young man.
 

kouroux

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No he's not. Lamps is giving already blooded players time. Those players all have a season or two on loan; often in the Championship. Chelsea have dozens of such players on their books. We have Tuanzebe and TFM (who's injured).
Exactly, ideally we'd have reinforced the team and sent Greewood, Chong and Gomes on loan in order for them to play regular pro football with adults.
 

Lee565

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I'd rather see Gomes ahead of Mata, and Garner ahead of Matic or Fred. We'll find out whether they are better or worse by playing them. Mata is a passenger anyhow.
Or William's ahead of young, though I would also rather see rojo over young as well at left back, in fact I see no real reason why young should be getting picked left or right back period unless we had crazy amount of injuries to cover them positions.
 

Sterling Archer

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The kids are probably feeling like they had better coaching in the youth setup. You can see the frustration for them to come in, make runs , take up positions they're used to only to find the others disjointed.
 

Mark Pawelek

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Or William's ahead of young, though I would also rather see rojo over young as well at left back, in fact I see no real reason why young should be getting picked left or right back period unless we had crazy amount of injuries to cover them positions.
I didn't say I wanted Williams ahead of Young. The main job of a full-back is defending. Young is probably a better defender because he's more experienced. Williams has more attacking instinct, is faster, and gets forward a lot. With a lot of U-23 assists. I think matches with Williams in will be higher scoring.

The biggest problem issue I see at United is midfield; especially with Pogba injured. Which is why I'd like to see Garner get a game ahead of Fred or Matic. I'd swop Garner for Pogba at a pivot player. Play Pogba further forward. As a rule, Garner doesn't pass sideways; unless he's being pressed and has no other route. Keep McTominay as the second pivot. Or play Garner at the base of a diamond.
 

Sandikan

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No he's not. Lamps is giving already blooded players time. Those players all have a season or two on loan; often in the Championship. Chelsea have dozens of such players on their books. We have Tuanzebe and TFM (who's injured).
This is an underrated post. Tomori and Mount had their time at Derby, under Lampard himself! It's genius now integrating them.

As opposed to us thinking Greenwood, Chong, Gomes etc are ready now. All three need at least a year in the championship.
 

United Hobbit

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I think half the problem is they are being pitched into a side where there is no one to help them out a bit and offer them support through the games if needed.

Obviously most of that is the manager's job to have them properly coached however out of all of them Tuanzebe is doing the best but could that be because he has the slightly more "leader" like players around him such as Maguire and dare I say, Young? They will be able to offer him some gentle encouragement and if needed correct his positioning, whereas Greenwood has Rashy, who's own positioning is questionable. The midfield is non existent to help James and Gomes, it's the sort of role you would hope Pogba could fulfil but he is injured and not being used well by Ole, McT is trying but he isnt overly experienced himself. Plus with the whole team playing badly no one can cover up if the younger players have a less effective game, they are completely pitched in at the deep end.

Also are the coaching staff sitting down with the young players after the game and showing them the footage and showing them what they could have done different? They won't learn if they aren't shown why things didn't quite happen for them in a game.
 

Mark Pawelek

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Maybe Ole should of thought of that before happily letting both Lukaku and Sanchez go. On top of that allowing Fellaini to leave whilst Herrera still hadn’t signed his contract. Or suddenly making McTominay a guaranteed starter after an above average second half of a season.

I can’t work out if Solskjaer really thought the youngsters were better than they were or the board haven’t given him the backing. We need to stop being so fixed eyed on one or two players that takes our entire transfer budget whilst leaving 4 gaps in the squad. Buying Maguire at £80m we have bought an above average CB whilst leaving midfield non-existent.
Lukaku and Sanchez had to go. Someone leaked confidential information to the press and Lukaku is the main suspect. Treachery is unforgivable. Sanchez is replaced by James.
 

davidmichael

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Rather than just ‘blooding’ them I’d much rather we give some of them an actual run in the team as there’s no one who can convince me that right now Garner shouldn’t be playing ahead of Fred or Greenwood ahead of Mata or Gomes ahead of Pereira or Lingard or that Tuanzebe shouldn’t be first choice replacement if Lindelof or Maguire are injured ahead of Jones or Rojo.

Right now we know how awful we are so what’s the worst that can happen by playing Greenwood, Gomes, Tuanzebe and Garner for an extended run of games ? I don’t see it being any worse with Dalot being first choice when Wan-Bisakka is injured either.
 

Mark Pawelek

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I think half the problem is they are being pitched into a side where there is no one to help them out a bit and offer them support through the games if needed.
You mean United don't have a proper captain. Garner is the U-23s Captain. Maybe he should tell the senior players what's needed to win matches?

... out of all of them Tuanzebe is doing the best but could that be because he has the slightly more "leader" like players around him such as Maguire and dare I say, Young? ...
Tuanzebe is doing well because he has more experience. 1 and a bit seasons of Championship football with Villa. He was blooded in previous seasons.
 

Ballist1x

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How come Newcastle and Rochdale youth players can do just fine on against clubs like Man Utd but our youth look like dross playing against teams like Rochdale and AZ?
 

Josep Dowling

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Lukaku and Sanchez had to go. Someone leaked confidential information to the press and Lukaku is the main suspect. Treachery is unforgivable. Sanchez is replaced by James.
‘Replaced’, seen this a lot. Absolutely no comparison in quality.
 

dave1956

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The present set up has for at least 6 years not helped the progress of our youth players. Sir Matt had a vision on how we should play, he reorganised the club from the junior players through to the first team, so that so that a 16 year old in the A team played the same way as a first team player. This brought success as if the player made it through the ranks when he became a first team player he already knew how the team would play, all he had to do was perfect his ball skills. Managers after Sir Matt paid little attention to the youth side, we were less successful. Sir Alex, recognised the strengths of Sir Matt's system and started the reorganisation of the clubs coaching and playing policy from the 10 /12 year olds through to the senior side, so at all levels the playing and coaching was the same. This meant once again that young players coming into the first team had already been accustomed to playing the same tactics and methods but at a lower level and knew what was expected.
Once Sir Alex retired this system once again was abandoned whilst successive managers concentrated on the first team squad, as a result we have reached the point where coaching at the various playing levels appears to be fragmented
Where once the chain links from school boy level to first team level were continuous, now the chain is broken resulting in youth players coming into the first team unsure of how they should play and what is expected of them. You cannot coach that from the side line on match day neither can you do it over a few weeks with the first team squad.
 

0le

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How come Newcastle and Rochdale youth players can do just fine on against clubs like Man Utd but our youth look like dross playing against teams like Rochdale and AZ?
Less pressure and far less scrutiny. Also we have little leadership in the team to guide the young players.
 

romufc

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No he's not. Lamps is giving already blooded players time. Those players all have a season or two on loan; often in the Championship. Chelsea have dozens of such players on their books. We have Tuanzebe and TFM (who's injured).
So any other manager done that? He has dropped the likes of Giroud, Kovacic, Pulisic, Pedro for youngsters.

Has Ole done the same? Who has he dropped?
 

cyberman

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This is an underrated post. Tomori and Mount had their time at Derby, under Lampard himself! It's genius now integrating them.

As opposed to us thinking Greenwood, Chong, Gomes etc are ready now. All three need at least a year in the championship.
But we don't think they're ready now? They're barely playing, even in an injury crisis
 

Sandikan

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But we don't think they're ready now? They're barely playing, even in an injury crisis
That is true, but in going with Martial and Rashford, Ole and the board have decided one of two things
1) That those two would start 40-45 games each this season
2)That Greenwood is ready to be a genuine replacement for either

Either approach is quite optimistic.
 

RedRonaldo

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For every Giggs, Beckham and Scholes, there are also Januzaj, Cleverley and Lingard.