Blooding youth is great

Pexbo

Online influencer who has never watched Star Wars
Joined
Jun 2, 2009
Messages
47,923
Location
Brizzle
Blooding young players in a settled team is great. They learn a lot from playing in the first team, alongside first team players in a settled system. Playing too many young players at once negates the benefits of first team experience. It ends up like a youth team match against very tough opposition.

Continuity is good. Switching 5+ players in and out the team each match is bad. It makes it impossible to get any sort of rhythm and understanding.


Combine the above two statements and you have a recipe for disaster. We are currently a disaster. This is not the right environment to be bringing through these young players, no matter how good they are. The only thing they’re going to be learning is how shit it feels to be in a side with no confidence and a feck tonne of pressure on it.


I know injuries have been playing a big part in this but these young players deserve a better environment than this to develop in.

Rant over.
 

Hawks2008

Full Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2015
Messages
4,342
Location
Melbz
No. You see, this is the plan. We didn't replace any outgoing players so that the youth can play. The squad was left thin for this very reason. Everything is proceeding as the club planned.
 

charlenefan

Far less insightful than the other Charley
Joined
Aug 17, 2005
Messages
22,200
I sometimes wonder if we'd be better playing a full youth team. Look how we struggle against Rochdale, whilst our youth team are wiping the floor with those same teams in the EFL Trophy or whatever it's called.
Baffling isn't it

It really is like the likes of Matic, Mata and Fred bring others down just by being on the same pitch as them
 

AshRK

Full Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2017
Messages
6,248
Location
Canada
I agree, it doesn't do the youngsters also any good. Expecting too much from them in a disorganized system. No wonder rashford looks in his worst self since his starting days.
 

Utdstar01

Full Member
Joined
Feb 5, 2012
Messages
4,955
It works when you play them with decent squad players but you have to feel for them playing with this fodder.
 

rpitchfo

Full Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2013
Messages
1,870
I’m really not interested in watching the academy masked as a first team. Half of these players will be in the championship in 3 years.
 

VeevaVee

despite the protests, wears Ugg boots
Scout
Joined
Jan 3, 2009
Messages
36,983
Location
Manchester
Agreed. I've always said it. We used to be in a great position to bring youth through. We certainly aren't in one to bring loads of youth through at the same time right now. They've also very likely all been overrated by those desperate to see them in the first team, if we're being realistic and not just trying to be positive for the sake of it.
 

Rockets Redglare

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jun 23, 2015
Messages
1,017
I sometimes wonder if we'd be better playing a full youth team. Look how we struggle against Rochdale, whilst our youth team are wiping the floor with those same teams in the EFL Trophy or whatever it's called.
How many of our youth team are actually good enough to play in the premier league though? Because I’d say it’s not many.
 

yumtum

DUX' bumchum
Joined
May 10, 2009
Messages
4,777
Location
Wales
If we're going to play youth then they should all be played, Gomes is currently on the left in the first team but he never plays there for the youth, so you're asking him to perform and learn a new position, it's so stupid, it also helps that they all know each other etc.

I'm so fed up with the senior players.
 

ForeverRoma93

Full Member
Joined
Aug 28, 2014
Messages
284
Supports
A.S. Roma
Problem with youth players is that it's so easy overate them after they have half a dozen good games. Complacency then follows and then those youth players drop off and start playing in lower leagues.

Youth players need leaders in the squad who can keen them in check and a progressive manager.
 

drunkmonkmeth

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jul 11, 2015
Messages
307
Supports
Toronto FC!
Its not the players they were good when we won the europa league and great when we came second in the league. We were able to string passes together under lvg now we cant.. Ole is a terrible coach and manager and appointing him was one of the biggest mistake post fergie.
 

Pexbo

Online influencer who has never watched Star Wars
Joined
Jun 2, 2009
Messages
47,923
Location
Brizzle
Its not the players they were good when we won the europa league and great when we came second in the league. We were able to string passes together under lvg now we cant.. Ole is a terrible coach and manager and appointing him was one of the biggest mistake post fergie.

Six of the starting XI from the EL final have left the club.
 

Lee565

Full Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2019
Messages
1,246
I hate what Solskjear has done, he's doing more harm than good and I'm not surprised, he's a clueless manager.

Look at the crap players like Greenwood, Chong and gomes have been getting from fans on here for not performing like a consistent world class talent and single handedly saving us in matches because of how bad we are coached as a team.
 

Roboc7

Full Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2014
Messages
3,885
The youngsters aren’t as ready as a lot of people thought. But they are also playing in a disjointed team surrounded by dross and with a lack of any kind of structure so altogether it’s not that beneficial.
 

Betson

Full Member
Joined
Dec 26, 2012
Messages
856
I think we are putting too much pressure on the younger players to step up because the senior players are so poor right now.

But fact is they are not ready and it is not their fault.

Micheal Owen as annoying as he is made a good point tonight about the wild expectations some Utd supporters have about all these young lads stepping up, he said fact is at most you might get is one or two if you are lucky but most won't even be at the club in a few years , that is not just a Utd thing but a football thing. The class of 92 is a one off occurrence.
 

Alabaster Codify7

New Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2015
Messages
6,558
Location
Wales
Blooding young players in a settled team is great. They learn a lot from playing in the first team, alongside first team players in a settled system. Playing too many young players at once negates the benefits of first team experience. It ends up like a youth team match against very tough opposition.

Continuity is good. Switching 5+ players in and out the team each match is bad. It makes it impossible to get any sort of rhythm and understanding.


Combine the above two statements and you have a recipe for disaster. We are currently a disaster. This is not the right environment to be bringing through these young players, no matter how good they are. The only thing they’re going to be learning is how shit it feels to be in a side with no confidence and a feck tonne of pressure on it.


I know injuries have been playing a big part in this but these young players deserve a better environment than this to develop in.

Rant over.

Very true.

I’m really not interested in watching the academy masked as a first team. Half of these players will be in the championship in 3 years.
This is also true.
 

Bastian

Full Member
Joined
Jul 16, 2015
Messages
9,260
I sometimes wonder if we'd be better playing a full youth team. Look how we struggle against Rochdale, whilst our youth team are wiping the floor with those same teams in the EFL Trophy or whatever it's called.
I mostly agree. I think they need a solid experienced spine and a striker who can be an outlet. We don't have the striker, but I'd go with Romero, Maguire and McTominay and surround them with youth. At least against lesser teams. Mata-Fred-Matic is not working in any way, shape or form.
 

Sky1981

Fending off the urge
Joined
Apr 12, 2006
Messages
24,205
Location
Under the bright neon lights of sincity
Blooding young players in a settled team is great. They learn a lot from playing in the first team, alongside first team players in a settled system. Playing too many young players at once negates the benefits of first team experience. It ends up like a youth team match against very tough opposition.

Continuity is good. Switching 5+ players in and out the team each match is bad. It makes it impossible to get any sort of rhythm and understanding.


Combine the above two statements and you have a recipe for disaster. We are currently a disaster. This is not the right environment to be bringing through these young players, no matter how good they are. The only thing they’re going to be learning is how shit it feels to be in a side with no confidence and a feck tonne of pressure on it.


I know injuries have been playing a big part in this but these young players deserve a better environment than this to develop in.

Rant over.
Anyone could pick a youth and throw them on the match.

It's doing so with a planned path that's hard.

What good is throwing youth if we lose the match?
 

amolbhatia50k

Sneaky bum time
Joined
Nov 8, 2002
Messages
74,216
Location
india
Playing for a team that is a mess is painful for everybody - the youth players, the experienced players, the fans, everybody. It drags everybody down. Even a shit Argentina drag Messi down FFS. So imagine a youth player having to play in a shit storm. It's not easy. Maybe giving them gamtime will help them regardless, however it could obviously also dent their self belief. Regardless I think fans have to be patient and understand that these players don't have it easy - but they should have talent of course.
 

amolbhatia50k

Sneaky bum time
Joined
Nov 8, 2002
Messages
74,216
Location
india
Anyone could pick a youth and throw them on the match.

It's doing so with a planned path that's hard.

What good is throwing youth if we lose the match?
Moreover you have to develop them and teach the collective how to play, collectively. Anybody can say 'play fast, attacking football, the man United way'. I can do that. Getting them to put in in action, and blending the youngsters in, that is something the manager has to prove he can do. Ours seemingly cannot. All he has is words and a few preferences which seem great on paper.
 

Sterling Archer

New Member
Joined
Jun 30, 2016
Messages
4,293
It's not even like United have a history of bringing in squad after squad of academy players all at once into the first team. It happened once now in the last thirty years. It's also not like other famed teams have been pumping out either. That Barca spine with Xavi, Iniesta, Busquets, Pique and Messi all at once was again, a one off. All these teams have an academy product or two slowly come through the ranks.

It's a bit shocking to see us act as if just playing kids will make those unicorn squads happen.
 

Class of 63

Full Member
Joined
Aug 15, 2017
Messages
7,451
Location
Still living next door to Alice ... in Wonderland!
Blooding young players in a settled team is great. They learn a lot from playing in the first team, alongside first team players in a settled system. Playing too many young players at once negates the benefits of first team experience. It ends up like a youth team match against very tough opposition.

Continuity is good. Switching 5+ players in and out the team each match is bad. It makes it impossible to get any sort of rhythm and understanding.


Combine the above two statements and you have a recipe for disaster. We are currently a disaster. This is not the right environment to be bringing through these young players, no matter how good they are. The only thing they’re going to be learning is how shit it feels to be in a side with no confidence and a feck tonne of pressure on it.


I know injuries have been playing a big part in this but these young players deserve a better environment than this to develop in.

Rant over.
What is your actual point? We're low on confidence at the moment so what should we have done, started with only 7/8 players last night instead of playing the kids, or asked Michael Carrick, Ole himself or maybe Nicky Butt and Quinton Fortune if they fancied a game?
 

meamth

Full Member
Joined
Jun 3, 2017
Messages
3,170
Location
Malaysia
Yes our reserves squad is swiping the floor at the moment, but playing in front of the crowd vs empty stadium is another whole different level.

Playing with knees shaking, representing the world's biggest club, is not an easy task.

Our older players are shite, but putting whole squad of youngsters would be madness.
 

NWRed

Full Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2019
Messages
778
Blooding young players in a settled team is great. They learn a lot from playing in the first team, alongside first team players in a settled system. Playing too many young players at once negates the benefits of first team experience. It ends up like a youth team match against very tough opposition.

Continuity is good. Switching 5+ players in and out the team each match is bad. It makes it impossible to get any sort of rhythm and understanding.


Combine the above two statements and you have a recipe for disaster. We are currently a disaster. This is not the right environment to be bringing through these young players, no matter how good they are. The only thing they’re going to be learning is how shit it feels to be in a side with no confidence and a feck tonne of pressure on it.


I know injuries have been playing a big part in this but these young players deserve a better environment than this to develop in.

Rant over.
I strongly disagree with this, the youngsters we're playing will benefit immensley from this. The class of '92's first taste of football was in disappointing cup exits and poor european campaigns in the early 90's, it showed them the level they had to reach and the problems they had to overcome as first team footballers and eventually made them tougher mentally and we created a great side with them at the core.

Then we have examples from the 00's, many of them, who came into a winning side under little pressure and initially looked very good only to fade away and not make it, e.g. Macheda.
 

Gandalf Greyhame

Full Member
Scout
Joined
Dec 7, 2013
Messages
5,238
Location
In a tree, spying on the next opposition.
You can't throw on 18 year olds on to the pitch without proper instructions/coaching, and tell them to 'run and attack and move quickly'. No matter how good they are, if they don't know what to do (and they probably won't since they have no experience) they will look terrible. Rashford is better than this. We have seen it. Greenwood, Gomes, James, Martial are all better than this and they can improve by a huge margin. But I don't think they'll do it under Ole. He is tactically naive and cannot tell the players how to set up attacking moves.

Lampard at Chelsea is doing what we thought Ole would - without having spent 100m on defenders. This Chelsea team looks good going forward - they have patterns of play. Mount and Tammy know where to be and how to move and whom to pick out for a pass. I thought Ole would coach us into an attacking side of a similar ilk - but he's absolutely lost and his players are all regressing.

I agree with the OP. This is doing our kids more harm than good. AZ were better coached with their youth players yesterday, FFS.
 

passing-wind

Full Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2013
Messages
1,635
I hate what Solskjear has done, he's doing more harm than good and I'm not surprised, he's a clueless manager.

Look at the crap players like Greenwood, Chong and gomes have been getting from fans on here for not performing like a consistent world class talent and single handedly saving us in matches because of how bad we are coached as a team.
Solskjaer is garbage at coaching. How can you expect youth players to thrive in a non existent system. Not one player has improved under Ole since he's been appointed. Why are we expecting miracles of him developing younger players :lol:. Ole has drip fed the fans rubbish, he's a BTEC version of Unai /Mourinho, Daniel James as a 10 last night and Lingard the other week. What's next Pogba on goal kicks for "tactical purposes". It's calamitous.
 

roonster09

Correctly predicted France to win World Cup 2018
Scout
Joined
May 10, 2009
Messages
22,691
The biggest problem we have (in the squad) is lack of senior players who are good enough. They are the ones who should be setting the standards but the ones we have are just not good enough and the good players we have are young and inconsistent. This isn't the ideal environment for young players as they need guidance on the pitch too.
 

In Rainbows

Full Member
Joined
Apr 17, 2014
Messages
4,817
1. It's not only the young players playing poorly or average. It's the senior players so it's not like the team is losing much in performance by playing the younger kids.

2. It's hard for a great player like Pogba to thrive under these crap attacking coaches, it is surely difficult for these young players.

3. Even though it's not ideal circumstances, it's better for them to play then not play so long as it doesn't last longer than this season. Otherwise they'll be stuck in a crap competition that is the u23s, when they've already proven themselves there. You could loan them, but that's not a guarantee of anything. A player needs to hit the ground running because those managers in the lower divisions are fighting for their job. It doesn't benefit them to just develop them for the sake of it. And those managers need to have the right tactics that brings out the best of those young players.
 

Classical Mechanic

Full Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2014
Messages
27,600
Location
xG Zombie Nation
I sometimes wonder if we'd be better playing a full youth team. Look how we struggle against Rochdale, whilst our youth team are wiping the floor with those same teams in the EFL Trophy or whatever it's called.
It's about pressure. In the EFL Trophy they can play without fear, realistically they're underdogs and very few people are watching anyway. At Old Trafford in a dysfunctional senior side the lights are very bright and performances will be dissected. There's an expectation to win which brings a different psychological dynamic. The crowd will get restless if the team isn't winning and playing well. There's pressure on to make a positive impression too because it will dictate on future opportunities.
 

UpWithRivers

Full Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2013
Messages
1,197
It's simply never happened except the class of 92 and probably will never work again. It's the stupidest philosophy that has ever been. It's like a band deciding they are going to be the Beatles. Just not gonna happen. You can try mimic it in some way but you will never ever be the Beatles. There was so many factors that made that team work that we can't just recreate. It's impossible. Statistically maybe one of these young players will make it to the very top. I mean to the level of being in a trophy winning team. And that's a big maybe and even then only in a few years time. Meanwhile we will carry the rest of them praying they will make it but they will either be average premier footballers or go off the radar and ply thier trade in Asia or somewhere.
Get the first team right and play the kids as support players. Not the other way around.
 

Rendezvous with Ronaldo

New Member
Newbie
Joined
May 25, 2019
Messages
161
Supports
Hartlepool
Yeah......let's carry on pretending that weren't many, many people on here who were advocating exact that - getting rid of unwanted players and if playing the yoof in their place. Because apparently there was a 0% chance they would be inferior to the departed players.

Those people (and there were a lot) need to break their vow of silence on the matter and admit to being ridiculously naive.
 

In Rainbows

Full Member
Joined
Apr 17, 2014
Messages
4,817
Yeah......let's carry on pretending that weren't many, many people on here who were advocating exact that - getting rid of unwanted players and if playing the yoof in their place. Because apparently there was a 0% chance they would be inferior to the departed players.

Those people (and there were a lot) need to break their vow of silence on the matter and admit to being ridiculously naive.
The only player people argued against was Sanchez and Jones. Others wanted Lukaku replaced for someone like Dembele, and Jovic. Others have wanted older players like Mata out, same with Young.
 
Last edited:

Stookie

Nurse bell end
Joined
Jun 5, 2008
Messages
7,131
Location
West Yorkshire
Blooding youth works best when the established players are also playing well. There’s a time and a place for it. Just sending a load of youth players out with Matic Fred and whoever isn’t gonna do them any good.
 

Thisistheone

Full Member
Joined
Oct 1, 2010
Messages
7,773
I strongly disagree with this, the youngsters we're playing will benefit immensley from this. The class of '92's first taste of football was in disappointing cup exits and poor european campaigns in the early 90's, it showed them the level they had to reach and the problems they had to overcome as first team footballers and eventually made them tougher mentally and we created a great side with them at the core.

Then we have examples from the 00's, many of them, who came into a winning side under little pressure and initially looked very good only to fade away and not make it, e.g. Macheda.
Wait, what? The class of '92 came into back to back PL winning sides and the double winners. We had leaders like Cantona, Bruce, Pallister, Schmeichel, Ince, Roy Keane. We had Ferguson as manager...

The disappointments you mention are the late 90's Champions League defeats to Juventus and Dortmund in the middle of winning league titles.

Thats totally different to today.
 

Noc-Z

ffs
Joined
Jun 17, 2014
Messages
996
Location
Fergie's Backyard.
Introducing young players is good when they have quality established players around them, leaders who they can look to and learn from. We don't have that. These young players are just been thrown in at the deep end.
 

stepic

Full Member
Joined
Aug 31, 2006
Messages
7,072
Location
London
No paedophile/rape jokes before anyone thinks of posting one. Should go without saying really but have to post it as I know what some of you are like.
 

Josep Dowling

Full Member
Joined
Aug 17, 2014
Messages
4,683
The biggest problem we have (in the squad) is lack of senior players who are good enough. They are the ones who should be setting the standards but the ones we have are just not good enough and the good players we have are young and inconsistent. This isn't the ideal environment for young players as they need guidance on the pitch too.
Maybe Ole should of thought of that before happily letting both Lukaku and Sanchez go. On top of that allowing Fellaini to leave whilst Herrera still hadn’t signed his contract. Or suddenly making McTominay a guaranteed starter after an above average second half of a season.

I can’t work out if Solskjaer really thought the youngsters were better than they were or the board haven’t given him the backing. We need to stop being so fixed eyed on one or two players that takes our entire transfer budget whilst leaving 4 gaps in the squad. Buying Maguire at £80m we have bought an above average CB whilst leaving midfield non-existent.