Board vs Jose

Infra-red

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Matic and Zalatan were both sensible signings in every respect. If we could get Perisic and Willian for ~£30m I'm sure we would. But if they had cost upwards of £60m like Willian and Perisic I doubt we'd have gone near them, and rightly so. I can understand the board not wanting to spend huge amounts on older players. It's a poor investment, unless you believe either of those players will be the difference between winning the title/CL and not winning.
Probably the nub of the issue. £60-70m on players with no resale value is difficult to justify when, upon looking at City's squad, you realise that whether you sign those players or not, your chances of winning a big pot remains more-or-less the same (ie zero). With no chance of ever making your money back, you're effectively throwing it away on a lost cause.

I just hope that if the plan is to 'sit it out' in the top 4, biding our time until City's cycle of dominance comes to an end, that the board are at least slightly cognisant of how challenging even that meagre target will be with resurgent Liverpool/Arsenal/Chelsea sides and Pochettino's Spurs all fighting for the same places. Standing still is going backwards here.
 

Revan

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If the board want something different there needs to be a structure in the club that can help them form and validate an alternative position. Currently we have no DoF and since Ribalta quit we don't have a chief of scouts either.

If Mourinho presents a list for the RW which looks like:
1) Bale
2) Willian
3) Perisic
etc.

..and the club don't want to go for these options due to the cost/age factor, then there needs to be a DoF who steps in assesses the scout information and says to Mourinho "look we'll go for this X guy who's the closest match we can get to your requirements, because we can't bring your specific targets for x,y,z reasons"

Currently Mourinho will present a list but who can challenge him on it? All the senior people at the club are not football people. The board of directors is 5 Glazers, a CFO, a Commercial/Operations director and Woody. None of them are football people. All they can do is block the request which leaves Mourinho and the team in a limbo.
Woody is as much a football person as the likes of Galliani or Perez are. He has been involved with United for around 15 years now. The others I agree, they probably don't know more for football than us fans.
 

TrueRed79

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If you look at his transfer history with us, it's obvious what the problem is. No resale value for the Glazers like infa-red just said. You want Bailly? Fine transfer done in no time. Same with Lindelof. Same with Dalot. Same with Fred. Same with Lukaku. It's on when we get to the Perisic's, Willian's, Alderweirelds where we get a saga and drawn out transfer story. Club simply don't want to invest in ageing players and the fact that Jose's short-term management style just means his whole appointment in the first place was a bit daft.
 

VanGaalyTime

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Probably the nub of the issue. £60-70m on players with no resale value is difficult to justify when, upon looking at City's squad, you realise that whether you sign those players or not, your chances of winning a big pot remains more-or-less the same (ie zero). With no chance of ever making your money back, you're effectively throwing it away on a lost cause.

I just hope that if the plan is to 'sit it out' in the top 4, biding our time until City's cycle of dominance comes to an end, that the board are at least slightly cognisant of how challenging even that meagre target will be with resurgent Liverpool/Arsenal/Chelsea sides and Pochettino's Spurs all fighting for the same places. Standing still is going backwards here.
I said this on another thread, but what if the fans decide to sit it out until City's period of dominance ends? What if the sponsors do the same? It's insane of the Glazers not to spend the club's money respectfully. The club desperately needs a new left back and a world class right winger to challenge for the Champions League and the Premier League. They have 9 days to get both. If they don't, I can see thousands of fans staying home for some games this season and United will be lucky to scrape 4th behind Spurs and Chelsea.
 

LordTyrion

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If you look at his transfer history with us, it's obvious what the problem is. No resale value for the Glazers like infa-red just said. You want Bailly? Fine transfer done in no time. Same with Lindelof. Same with Dalot. Same with Fred. Same with Lukaku. It's on when we get to the Perisic's, Willian's, Alderweirelds where we get a saga and drawn out transfer story. Club simply don't want to invest in ageing players and the fact that Jose's short-term management style just means his whole appointment in the first place was a bit daft.
I completely agree, the board should give Mourinho what he wants and forget resale value, if they aren't willing to do that then they should never have employed him in the first place.
 

sullydnl

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Better noises from Mourinho there when he said not getting the two players he wants is "no drama".

Unfortunately that leaves us with the second side of the problem, which is that just signing one more player doesn't strengthen us all that much. As Mourinho again said, we basically have the same team from last year.

Oh well.
 

L1nk

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This one last player really needs to be a RW over a CB, we cannot go another season without any sort of RW, it would be bordering on neglect at this point.
 

Offside

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Better noises from Mourinho there when he said not getting the two players he wants is "no drama".

Unfortunately that leaves us with the second side of the problem, which is that just signing one more player doesn't strengthen us all that much. As Mourinho again said, we basically have the same team from last year.

Oh well.
If we got a top centre-half then I like the look of our signings and think we could have a great squad. Pogba, Lukaku, Sanchez and Lingard will go up a level I think. The problem is, we don’t have enough balance. We’ve got to pray Dalot turns out really well and Shaw finally finds his form. Even then the lack of a RW is concerning.

Despite me having some optimism, I still think the fact the fullback situation is a little desperate is concerning. We should have bought 2 fullbacks and a winger. Just the one fullback who’s a kid isn’t really good enough.
 

amolbhatia50k

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Better noises from Mourinho there when he said not getting the two players he wants is "no drama".

Unfortunately that leaves us with the second side of the problem, which is that just signing one more player doesn't strengthen us all that much. As Mourinho again said, we basically have the same team from last year.

Oh well.
 

royboy16

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Better noises from Mourinho there when he said not getting the two players he wants is "no drama".

Unfortunately that leaves us with the second side of the problem, which is that just signing one more player doesn't strengthen us all that much. As Mourinho again said, we basically have the same team from last year.

Oh well.
Well on paper yes but surely our signings from last summer will have had more time to adjust to a new team,I'm hoping so anyway.
 

Massive Spanner

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Better noises from Mourinho there when he said not getting the two players he wants is "no drama".

Unfortunately that leaves us with the second side of the problem, which is that just signing one more player doesn't strengthen us all that much. As Mourinho again said, we basically have the same team from last year.

Oh well.
it's quite incredible that we're likely going into yet another season with Young and Valencia as first choice FB's and no proper right winger, really.

Still, eh, at least we're getting another center back maybe, yay?
 

sullydnl

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Well on paper yes but surely our signings from last summer will have had more time to adjust to a new team,I'm hoping so anyway.
Well indeed, yes.

Of course the same could also apply to our rivals too though. The likes of Mendy and Bernarndo Silva at City, for example.
 

Jacko21

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it's quite incredible that we're likely going into yet another season with Young and Valencia as first choice RB's and no proper right winger, really.

Still, eh, at least we're getting another center back maybe, yay?
This is what makes me nervous.

Because at this moment in time, I see no reason why I won't be once again watching United toil over how to try and cut through a stubborn defence at Old Trafford.
 

Ashish Negi

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Jose Mourinho meltdown: Man Utd players fear manager's erratic behaviour will kill their season

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/footbal...nagers-erratic/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

Jose Mourinho's US meltdown affecting Manchester United players leaving club hierarchy hugely concerned

The United boss gave an interview to MUTV in which he claimed Martial - who left the US for the birth of his second child - should have rejoined the tour after his son was born.

United were concerned at the potential inflammatory effect of the remarks, but they were broadcast before they could be vetoed, with club sources since claiming there was no problem with them being aired.

One senior United player was so concerned about Mourinho's reaction to an interview he gave on tour, he insisted his answer to one question was pulled to avoid further antagonising his boss.

Against that backdrop, the United hierarchy, led by executive vic-chairman Ed Woodward, have become increasingly concerned at the negative tone set by Mourinho, ahead of a crucial season for the club.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/foot...hester-13004981.amp?__twitter_impression=true
 

Jerch

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Probably the nub of the issue. £60-70m on players with no resale value is difficult to justify when, upon looking at City's squad, you realise that whether you sign those players or not, your chances of winning a big pot remains more-or-less the same (ie zero). With no chance of ever making your money back, you're effectively throwing it away on a lost cause.

I just hope that if the plan is to 'sit it out' in the top 4, biding our time until City's cycle of dominance comes to an end, that the board are at least slightly cognisant of how challenging even that meagre target will be with resurgent Liverpool/Arsenal/Chelsea sides and Pochettino's Spurs all fighting for the same places. Standing still is going backwards here.
What dominance. What is that hard on for City on this forum all about? Yes they won PL by a lot of points but not one club who should compete for PL tittle had a good season. We were not great for long periods of time and we were second. They don't have nearly as good squad as Real, Barca, Juve, PSG or maybe evn Bayern have.
There is no dominance in English football since Fergie retired and i don't expect one. People forget that retaining a tittle in much harder that winning it.
 

Infra-red

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What dominance. What is that hard on for City on this forum all about? Yes they won PL by a lot of points but not one club who should compete for PL tittle had a good season. We were not great for long periods of time and we were second. They don't have nearly as good squad as Real, Barca, Juve, PSG or maybe evn Bayern have.
There is no dominance in English football since Fergie retired and i don't expect one. People forget that retaining a tittle in much harder that winning it.
19 points to be precise - the biggest margin of victory in the history of the league.

Obviously a single Premier League win does not constitute a period of dominance, but it is not unreasonable to believe that is what we're entering, given the massive disparity between City and their rivals.
 

edgar allan

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Looks like it is going to end up a dour nil all draw. I am not looking forward to what Jose has to say in his post-match press conference.
 

#07

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Listening to Duncan Castles' latest podcast it seems that Jose has lost this battle. Castles was clear that Jose doesn't really want Maguire or Mina. He prefers the latter over the former but these are choices that have been presented to him by the club. Jose wanted an experienced centre back to marshal his defence and has had to settle for something else because the club isn't willing to spend big on that. His view was basically that Jose gave his list to the club months ago and the club hasn't really done anything with it.
 

Mainoldo

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Meanwhile in Spain. The old Galacticos are probably not going to replace Ronaldo but we’re in arms because the gaffer can’t get Willian.
 

Marcky411

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Better noises from Mourinho there when he said not getting the two players he wants is "no drama".

Unfortunately that leaves us with the second side of the problem, which is that just signing one more player doesn't strengthen us all that much. As Mourinho again said, we basically have the same team from last year.

Oh well.
Yes a completely different tone from Jose compared to the bitter spouting he has been doing in the press the whole tour. I think the board got fed up with his antics and have had a word with mr. Mourinho.
 

Alabaster Codify7

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To play Devil's Advocate a bit....
If you were club owners, would you be concerned about spending £50-60m on aging players? Knowing that Jose is a short-term managers, and these are short-term options. Would you be happy knowing that in about 2yrs time, you're going to have a large chunk of high-earners in their mid-30s that can no longer do the job to the required level?

It's not about re-sale value, it's common sense. Spend £150m on three of them now, then spend another £300m to replace all three in 2yrs time.
 

haram

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To play Devil's Advocate a bit....
If you were club owners, would you be concerned about spending £50-60m on aging players? Knowing that Jose is a short-term managers, and these are short-term options. Would you be happy knowing that in about 2yrs time, you're going to have a large chunk of high-earners in their mid-30s that can no longer do the job to the required level?

It's not about re-sale value, it's common sense. Spend £150m on three of them now, then spend another £300m to replace all three in 2yrs time.
If the players are quality, no. I’m tired of this cautious thinking. Ibra and Matic were good signings for us. Sanchez is looking better in pre season. Alderweireld is one of the best defenders in the league. People need to get over the age thing. We signed other younger players and regardless of what happens we will have to add players every season anyway.
 

VP89

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To play Devil's Advocate a bit....
If you were club owners, would you be concerned about spending £50-60m on aging players? Knowing that Jose is a short-term managers, and these are short-term options. Would you be happy knowing that in about 2yrs time, you're going to have a large chunk of high-earners in their mid-30s that can no longer do the job to the required level?

It's not about re-sale value, it's common sense. Spend £150m on three of them now, then spend another £300m to replace all three in 2yrs time.
I'd rather pay 50-60 on older players with less risk of flopping while they're here, than pay the same for younger talents that may never develop.
 

99withaflake

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Oh man, I want to know what that conversation was about.
I’m no body language expert but Jose looks like I often do around my boss. Wanting to say what he thinks, but holding it in and fake smile because he knows he has to during that moment.

Like I said, I have no idea what I’m taking about here. They could have a very nice relationship.
 

SteveJ

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I reckon that conversation went something like this:

ED: "Heard anything from Martial?"
JOSE: "Nothing."
 

Alabaster Codify7

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If the players are quality, no. I’m tired of this cautious thinking. Ibra and Matic were good signings for us. Sanchez is looking better in pre season. Alderweireld is one of the best defenders in the league. People need to get over the age thing. We signed other younger players and regardless of what happens we will have to add players every season anyway.

I'm not disagreeing but Zlatan - 1yr later, we spent £75million to replace him.

Matic was £40million - we'll be spending £80million or something stupid to replace him in a year or two.

Also, the reason for trusting such experienced and older players is the hope that they can deliver instant success.

It isn't working.

I don't disagree with your point, I just genuinely don't know what the club can do to progress from here.
 

haram

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I'm not disagreeing but Zlatan - 1yr later, we spent £75million to replace him.

Matic was £40million - we'll be spending £80million or something stupid to replace him in a year or two.

Also, the reason for trusting such experienced and older players is the hope that they can deliver instant success.

It isn't working.

I don't disagree with your point, I just genuinely don't know what the club can do to progress from here.
Yeah, and I hope every year if we get the chance to sign a Lukaku we take it as well. He is young AND has quality. Pogba is young AND had quality. Fred is young AND has quality. We should not look away just beacuse a player is 29. This squad needs older players as well.

If in 4 years we need to replace the 29 year old, so what? Maybe then we will have found a player that is young AND has quality and will shell out like we did for Pogba and Lukaku. There is nothing wrong with that. We will be signing players in the future regardless.

What do people expect us to do in 4 years? Just not sign anyone?
 

el3mel

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I'm not disagreeing but Zlatan - 1yr later, we spent £75million to replace him.

Matic was £40million - we'll be spending £80million or something stupid to replace him in a year or two.

Also, the reason for trusting such experienced and older players is the hope that they can deliver instant success.

It isn't working.

I don't disagree with your point, I just genuinely don't know what the club can do to progress from here.
You know that Zlatan was a free transfer, right ? The club didn't lose anything. We get him for free till a top striker is available in the market, and Zlatan contributed for well in the season he spent with us. Overall, great business.
 

MadMike

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If the players are quality, no. I’m tired of this cautious thinking. Ibra and Matic were good signings for us. Sanchez is looking better in pre season. Alderweireld is one of the best defenders in the league. People need to get over the age thing. We signed other younger players and regardless of what happens we will have to add players every season anyway.
You getting tired of it, does not factor in it. The board are entitled to think that way.

Sanchez was a trade deal Mkhi's resale value was low. He was a cheap deal. Ibra was free. If he had cost 50m and played only 1 season like he did, you'd say that was money wasted. Matic was the only one we spent some serious money for given his position and age.

I'm sure both the price of the player and total number of acquisitions of "oldies" factors in. Like Alderweireld at £45m might be palatable to the board but at £70m it isn't. Age obviously factors in this valuation.

Also if we signed Alderweireld and Willian, the rumoured first options, we'd have 6 players in our starting line up over the age of 30 before the end of the year. Considering the number of top level footballers at 34-35 is practically non-existent, you can see why the board would feel that such a squad will need replenishing at huge cost fairly soon.

I'd rather pay 50-60 on older players with less risk of flopping while they're here, than pay the same for younger talents that may never develop.
Of course you would, you don't run the business do you? You can recoup the money the on the youngsters, sometimes you'll make a loss sometimes you'll make a profit. We're talking about selling Martial on a profit for example. Do you think we'd sell Matic on a profit if a new manager comes in and wants something different from his anchor?
 

MadMike

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You know that Zlatan was a free transfer, right ? The club didn't lose anything. We get him for free till a top striker is available in the market, and Zlatan contributed for well in the season he spent with us. Overall, great business.
You know we signed Zlatan right? He played for this club. The board didn't veto it just because of age. If Zlatan was under contract and PSG had asked for £50m you think the signing would have happened?

The point it boils down to is that the board is happy to buy older players with low/non-existent resale value so long as it doesn't have to fork out a fortune for those players in the first place. Like Zlatan. Or Sanchez. And if we do pay loads for an old player it'd have to be a justified rare occasion rather than a norm.
 

haram

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Also if we signed Alderweireld and Willian, the rumoured first options, we'd have 6 players in our starting line up over the age of 30 before the end of the year. Considering the number of top level footballers at 34-35 is practically non-existent, you can see why the board would feel that such a squad will need replenishing at huge cost soon.
Im assuming the 6 players are Matic, Sanchez, Young, Valencia, Alderweireld and Willian?

Ok, first of all, we have literally signed Bailly and Lindelof who should grow as players, and still be here when Alderweireld is gone. We also have Tuanzebe and TFM here. Second of all, we have litetally signed Dalot to take over from Valencia, at least in the long term.

Rashford is still backup to Sanchez. Who knows what Chong and Pereira will be in 4 years. Shaw has been given another chance at LB. If they do not reach the required level, then yes, you go out and sign more players. Literally what is the problem here?
 

el3mel

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You know we signed Zlatan right? He played for this club. The board didn't veto it just because of age. If Zlatan was under contract and PSG had asked for £50m you think the signing would have happened?

The point it boils down to is that the board is happy to buy older players with low/non-existent resale value so long as it doesn't have to fork out a fortune for those players in the first place. Like Zlatan. Or Sanchez. And if we do pay loads for an old player it'd have to be a justified rare occasion rather than a norm.
The poster was saying we signed Zlatan then we had to replace him as if that was poor planning, while it was completely the opposite.
 

Revan

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If the players are quality, no. I’m tired of this cautious thinking. Ibra and Matic were good signings for us. Sanchez is looking better in pre season. Alderweireld is one of the best defenders in the league. People need to get over the age thing. We signed other younger players and regardless of what happens we will have to add players every season anyway.
Yes but you should be careful on not having too many old players. Alder I think makes sense considering that all our CBs are headless chicken and need an experienced leader near them, but Willian is an old player too many. Especially considering that we also have Sanchez, Matic, Young, Valencia and possibly Alder a bit old and who would need replacement soon. Essentially, at the end of rebuild we need to start thinking for the next rebuild. That is just bad business.
 

VP89

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Of course you would, you don't run the business do you? You can recoup the money the on the youngsters, sometimes you'll make a loss sometimes you'll make a profit. We're talking about selling Martial on a profit for example. Do you think we'd sell Matic on a profit if a new manager comes in and wants something different from his anchor?
It's done on balance. We don't buy an entire squad of kids so we can look solely on sell on fees. We have Bailey, Lukaku, Pogba, Rashford, Martial, Sanchez, Fred, Dalot all amongst our ranks at roughly 25 and under.

Are you saying we shouldn't get two older wingers because they're not going to have as high a sell on fee? Makes no sense. Transfers are about balance and fit, not solely about sell on impacts.