Boeing in trouble again

[UweBein]

Understood. Most of the maintenance schedules are mandatory meaning they have to be done at specific times. And the aircrew will have spent ages keeping current in the Sims.
Restarting flight operations isn't going to happen immediately. It will be a very gradual buildup.

Lots of movement in the maintenance sector, a lot of people moved to new/other jobs so I am not sure whether it will be as smooth as you think.
Also, the training in the sims has decreased significantly, so many pilots are just doing the bare minimum.

 

[VorZakone]

Meh, Boeing will be fine in the long-term.

 

[11101]

Lots of movement in the maintenance sector, a lot of people moved to new/other jobs so I am not sure whether it will be as smooth as you think.
Also, the training in the sims has decreased significantly, so many pilots are just doing the bare minimum.

I would agree on that.

Lots of aircraft being brought back out of storage is going to present it's own problems, too. A lot of maintenance teams are already stretched and many will not have done that job before.

 

[Cheimoon]

Why do so many of you seem so knowledgeable about aeroplane engines? Is the caf full of aeronautical engineers? Or is this a hobby?

Not sure which scenario is weirder.

Says the medical professional!

(Although there are a lot more medical professional than aeronautical engineers in the world, of course.)

 

[UweBein]

Meh, Boeing will be fine in the long-term.

For sure, they have a decent defence sector which is going to grow anyway.

 

[Foxbatt]

The 777 in question is a much older version. For the last 15 years you've only been able to buy 777s with GE engines.

Yes the older 200 version is what I said. They have newer versions but it looks like some airlines in Asia use them and have ground them already.

 

[Eugenius]

Yes the older 200 version is what I said. They have newer versions but it looks like some airlines in Asia use them and have ground them already.

I think there's only around 125 of Pratt powered ones out there. Would imagine the vast majority of 777s flying today are GE90s.

 

[Grinner]

I think there's only around 125 of Pratt powered ones out there. Would imagine the vast majority of 777s flying today are GE90s.

Maybe my GE stock might start get a little updraft then.

 

[11101]

Maybe my GE stock might start get a little updraft then.

Unfortunately you cant just swap the PW engines out for another type, it would be a huge amount of work and not cost effective on an old airframe. Those 125 aircraft are stuck with PW, if the problems are too big they might all have to be scrapped. Most will be fairly close to it anyway, the non ER 772 is old with limited range and not especially efficient.

 

[Grinner]

Unfortunately you cant just swap the PW engines out for another type, it would be a huge amount of work and not cost effective on an old airframe. Those 125 aircraft are stuck with PW, if the problems are too big they might all have to be scrapped. Most will be fairly close to it anyway, the non ER 772 is old with limited range and not especially efficient.

Thinking more that GE future orders increase over those of PW.

Not that it would do much to help GE. It's been in the doldrums for ages now.

 

[Buster15]

Thinking more that GE future orders increase over those of PW.

Not that it would do much to help GE. It's been in the doldrums for ages now.

P&W generally compete in the middle sized jets, in particular with their Geared Fan engines for the 737Max and A320 NEO.
The big jets are powered mainly by GE and Rolls-Royce with Boeing favouring GE and Airbus RR engines.

The problems facing all 3 major engine suppliers is the massive investment costs to improve fuel efficiency at the same time as revenues taking a nose dive.

 

[MDFC Manager]

P&W generally compete in the middle sized jets, in particular with their Geared Fan engines for the 737Max and A320 NEO.
The big jets are powered mainly by GE and Rolls-Royce with Boeing favouring GE and Airbus RR engines.

The problems facing all 3 major engine suppliers is the massive investment costs to improve fuel efficiency at the same time as revenues taking a nose dive.

What engines are the new Chinese aircraft using?

 

[11101]

P&W generally compete in the middle sized jets, in particular with their Geared Fan engines for the 737Max and A320 NEO.
The big jets are powered mainly by GE and Rolls-Royce with Boeing favouring GE and Airbus RR engines.

The problems facing all 3 major engine suppliers is the massive investment costs to improve fuel efficiency at the same time as revenues taking a nose dive.

The aircraft world is moving towards exclusive engine suppliers. The A350 and A330neo use RR, the 777X and 737MAX use GE. PW has the A220 - and has had issues there too.

What engines are the new Chinese aircraft using?

GE mostly. They are developing their own but acknowledge that for now they are better off using tried and tested engines.

 

[Salt Bailly]

The problems facing all 3 major engine suppliers is the massive investment costs to improve fuel efficiency at the same time as revenues taking a nose dive.

You flyboys crack me up.

 

[Buster15]

What engines are the new Chinese aircraft using?

Good question.
The Chinese government is investing huge sums of money in gas turbine engine development. Both for the military as well as civil applications.
They want to be independent of Russian engines for their military and Western suppliers for civil.
They have developed a middle sized jet, but that is using the P&W Geared Fan engine.
And as normal, they are not above copying/stealing intellectual property.
But reverse engineering a modern high efficiency engine is not going to work. Much relies on the engine/aircraft optimisation.
But they are working very hard to catch up.

 

[Foxbatt]

The aircraft world is moving towards exclusive engine suppliers. The A350 and A330neo use RR, the 777X and 737MAX use GE. PW has the A220 - and has had issues there too.

This is very interesting. Bombardier's biggest problem with the C Series was their engines. I did visit their plant in Quebec where they assembled the C series ( before they sold it to Airbus), and the delay was the issues they had with their engines.

 

[11101]

...

They have had all sorts of problems. Heat dissipation, seals, and exploding compressors. No fan blades.

It was a derivative of the PW4000 that lost a fan blade on the Air France A380 though.

 

[MDFC Manager]

GE mostly. They are developing their own but acknowledge that for now they are better off using tried and tested engines.

Good question.
The Chinese government is investing huge sums of money in gas turbine engine development. Both for the military as well as civil applications.
They want to be independent of Russian engines for their military and Western suppliers for civil.
They have developed a middle sized jet, but that is using the P&W Geared Fan engine.
And as normal, they are not above copying/stealing intellectual property.
But reverse engineering a modern high efficiency engine is not going to work. Much relies on the engine/aircraft optimisation.
But they are working very hard to catch up.

Thanks guys.

 

[Foxbatt]

The Chinese have another problem too. Type certification with either EASA or FAA. Most countries won't buy aircraft unless they are type certified by either EASA or FAA.
I guess they can sell to the local airlines as they have a huge market too.
The C series especially the 300 was a beautiful aircraft with auto descent if pilot is incapacitated and it's sad that Trump killed it for Canadian aviation. It had the range to compete with the 320 and 737.

 

[Foxbatt]

More problems in electrical grounding and `FAA has an advisory on it.

 

[esmufc07]

Alaska Airlines grounds 737 Max 9 planes after window blows out mid-air https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-67899564

 

[Murder on Zidane's Floor]

Don't ever fly. It sucks and is unsafe.

 

[VorZakone]

Don't ever fly. It sucks and is unsafe.

How is it unsafe?

 

[adexkola]

Don't ever fly. It sucks and is unsafe.

It sucks at times but if it's unsafe then there's no safe means of transportation

 

[4bars]

Don't ever fly. It sucks and is unsafe.

Unlike cars. Safest ever. Human risk perception is amusing

 

[calodo2003]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Keep your fecking seat belt fastened at all times when flying in a plane...

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

 

[The United]

The moral of the story is that don't sit in a window seat just in case!

 

[One Night Only]

How feckin big are plane windows these days?

 

[Murder on Zidane's Floor]

How is it unsafe?

Hitting the ground at 400mph is fatal.

 

[Murder on Zidane's Floor]

Unlike cars. Safest ever. Human risk perception is amusing

Tell me more.

Oh am I more likely to die on the way to the airport than on the plane?

Odd because last time I drove to the airport my average speed was 21mph in my Euro 5* NCAP car with eight airbags and a seat belt.

Human understanding of statistics and hyperbole is funny.

 

[OleGunnar20]

Hitting the ground at 400mph is fatal.

Brad Pitt in the documentary World War Z begs to differ

 

[Murder on Zidane's Floor]

https://fortune.com/2023/03/02/airline-near-misses-undermine-safety/

 

[Murder on Zidane's Floor]

Brad Pitt in the documentary World War Z begs to differ

Amazing really.

 

[4bars]

Tell me more.

Oh am I more likely to die on the way to the airport than on the plane?

Odd because last time I drove to the airport my average speed was 21mph in my Euro 5* NCAP car with eight airbags and a seat belt.

Human understanding of statistics and hyperbole is funny.

I can tell you more

https://simpleflying.com/how-safe-i...S academic institution researching this topic.


"According to research by Harvard University, flying in the US, Europe, and Australia is significantly safer than driving a car. Your odds of being in an accident during a flight is one in 1.2 million, and the chance of that being fatal is one in 11 million. Comparatively, your chances of dying in a car crash are over 200,000 times higher, averaging around one in 5,000."

Indeed, Human understanding of statistics is funny and getting triggered by hyperbole is equsllh funny

 

[Plant0x84]

I love the irony of a KLM advert at the bottom of this particular page

 

[Murder on Zidane's Floor]

I can tell you more

https://simpleflying.com/how-safe-is-flying/#:~:text=Your odds of being in,averaging around one in 5,000.&text=Harvard is far from the only US academic institution researching this topic.


"According to research by Harvard University, flying in the US, Europe, and Australia is significantly safer than driving a car. Your odds of being in an accident during a flight is one in 1.2 million, and the chance of that being fatal is one in 11 million. Comparatively, your chances of dying in a car crash are over 200,000 times higher, averaging around one in 5,000."

Indeed, Human understanding of statistics is funny and getting triggered by hyperbole is equsllh funny

Compare a single car crash and a single plane crash and get back to me.

 

[Withnail]

Compare a single car crash and a single plane crash and get back to me.

Stop boring everyone with your fear of flying. Planes aren't unsafe and certainly not when compared to other forms of transport. It's a ludicrous suggestion

 

[Murder on Zidane's Floor]

Stop boring everyone with your fear of flying. Planes aren't unsafe and certainly not when compared to other forms of transport. It's a ludicrous suggestion.

Stop boring everyone with your big aviation agenda. #shill

 

[Revan]

Compare a single car crash and a single plane crash and get back to me.

https://romanaustin.com/blog/is-flying-safer-than-driving/

0.23 in a million for airplanes and 1.34 for cars. So, almost 6 times safer than the car, even not accounting that most car trips are hundreds to thousands of times shorter than airpane flights.

 

[Withnail]

Stop boring everyone with your big aviation agenda. #shill

I get that you have a fear of flying and it can be difficult to overcome but there's no need to post nonsense. I can't imagine telling yourself it's unsafe is helping at all.