Bouhafsi: Martial wants to leave United

[GM K]

I think the Martial / Jose problem is one of mentality and chemistry between boss and surbodunate. Martial seems to me to be the type of guy that is very sensitive and requires tender loving care. Jose in the other hand craves loyalty, commitment and tough mentality. I think it explains Jose's strange fondness for Fellaini and why his pet players seem to be players like Young, Valencia, Rashford and Matic. These guys seem like players that don't need much cuddling or players who will not mind giving their jersey numbers to a legend that decides to join the club.

It might be a managerial weakness of Jose or a fault Martial has but it is what it is. In football, some players and managers just don't gell. It's best they go their separate ways and that does not mean they won"t both succeed without each other

 

[GM K]

I think the Martial / Jose problem is one of mentality and chemistry between boss and surbodinate. Martial seems to me to be the type of guy that is very sensitive and requires tender loving care. Jose on the other hand craves loyalty, commitment and tough mentality. I think it explains his strange fondness for Fellaini and why his pet players are those like Young, Valencia, Rashford and Matic. These guys look like they don't need much cuddling and will not mind giving their jersey numbers to a legend that decides to join the club.

It might be a managerial weakness of Jose or a fault Martial has but it is what it is. In football, some players and managers just don't gel. It's best they go their separate ways and that does not mean they won"t both succeed without each other.

 

[Kapardin]

I think the Martial / Jose problem is one of mentality and chemistry between boss and surbodunate. Martial seems to me to be the type of guy that is very sensitive and requires tender loving care. Jose in the other hand craves loyalty, commitment and tough mentality. I think it explains Jose's strange fondness for Fellaini and why his pet players seem to be players like Young, Valencia, Rashford and Matic. These guys seem like players that don't need much cuddling or players who will not mind giving their jersey numbers to a legend that decides to join the club.

It might be a managerial weakness of Jose or a fault Martial has but it is what it is. In football, some players and managers just don't gell. It's best they go their separate ways and that does not mean they won"t both succeed without each other

The problem for Jose is that flair footballers in the modern era are not his "warrior" types, but more similar to Martial.

A decade ago we had world class players like Drogba, Lampard, Terry, Ibra etc who had the "warrior" mentality that Jose craves, and who followed instructions. Nowadays, we have players like De Bruyne, Salah, Neymar, maybe Mbappe and on a lesser level the likes of Martial who are the type of players needed for a top side, but who do not fit Jose's "mentality" criterion. Rather, the stereotypical "warriors" are now strictly average or mediocre players like Fellaini, Valencia, Willian etc.

If Jose refuses to be more flexible, we are going to miss out on 80% of talented players who are also primadonnas. And success might be hard to come by. Might find a couple like Sanchez or Matic who have both talent and mentality, but it is very rare.

 

[GM K]

The problem for Jose is that flair footballers in the modern era are not his "warrior" types, but more similar to Martial.

A decade ago we had world class players like Drogba, Lampard, Terry, Ibra etc who had the "warrior" mentality that Jose craves, and who followed instructions. Nowadays, we have players like De Bruyne, Salah, Neymar, maybe Mbappe and on a lesser level the likes of Martial who are the type of players needed for a top side, but who do not fit Jose's "mentality" criterion. Rather, the stereotypical "warriors" are now strictly average or mediocre players like Fellaini, Valencia, Willian etc.

If Jose refuses to be more flexible, we are going to miss out on 80% of talented players who are also primadonnas. And success might be hard to come by. Might find a couple like Sanchez or Matic who have both talent and mentality, but it is very rare.

While I get your point, I am not sure about how you have categorized the players you listed. I think tough mentality is not about whether or not a player has flair. Ronaldo, Messi, Hazard, De Bruyne, Eriksen, are mentally tough cookies if you ask me. Neymar is more of a mercenary than a softie if you ask me and back then you had Kanu, Ronaldinho, Deco, and so on who were flair guys but had tough mentalities. I admit this is very subjective and debatable and I am only postulating based on observations. But I am sure there are many tough cookies out there who are flair players. Nevetherless, there is an interesting angle to your point. In the modern day, players - especially flair ones - have more power. No matter how poor mentally one team seems to believe a flair player is, there are 10 big teams out there ready to pay a lot for that player. So players tend to take less 'harrassments' from their clubs and managers and are often willing (and able) to move on more quickly. This is a reality Jose must accept and adopt his methods to otherwise he stands the risk of always losing flair players with not so strong mentalities and even tough cookies with no nonesense or desperate agents.

 

[Kapardin]

Nevetherless, there is an interesting angle to your point. In the modern day, players - especially flair ones - have more power. No matter how poor mentally one team seems to believe a flair player is, there are 10 big teams out there ready to pay a lot for that player. So players tend to take less 'harrassments' from their clubs and managers and are often willing (and able) to move on more quickly. This is a reality Jose must accept and adopt his methods to otherwise he stands the risk of always losing flair players with not so strong mentalities and even tough cookies with no nonesense or desperate agents.

This is what I was getting at. Nowadays, a player can sign a 6 year deal and yet stir rumors of an exit before the ink has dried. So by "mentality", I meant the desire to match Jose's expectations which really won't be there for 80% of the players.

Jose's man-mamagement needs to change.

 

[GM K]

This is what I was getting at. Nowadays, a player can sign a 6 year deal and yet stir rumors of an exit before the ink has dried. So by "mentality", I meant the desire to match Jose's expectations which really won't be there for 80% of the players.

Jose's man-mamagement needs to change.

Good point there.

 

[breakout67]

There are plenty of 'flair' players that are 'warriors'. Pogba is one of those players and he is always up for the physical battle and has a fantastic ability to tune out his critics. Sanchez is the same, gets kicked off the park every game and keeps on going.

Martial doesn't work for the team enough plain and simple. He doesn't run off the ball to make space for his team mates in attack enough and he doesn't track back to win the ball back enough. His eye for a pass is also lacking. So all you are left with is 1v1 drills and shooting practice from training.

Saying that he needs a pat on the back and some kind words to do footballing basics is nonsensical. This isn't academy football, those things are supposed to be in your game before you become a professional. And chances are that those things will take multiple years to get into his game, because to add those aspects to your game as an adult is very difficult.

 

[Mainoldo]

There are plenty of 'flair' players that are 'warriors'. Pogba is one of those players and he is always up for the physical battle and has a fantastic ability to tune out his critics. Sanchez is the same, gets kicked off the park every game and keeps on going.

Martial doesn't work for the team enough plain and simple. He doesn't run off the ball to make space for his team mates in attack enough and he doesn't track back to win the ball back enough. His eye for a pass is also lacking. So all you are left with is 1v1 drills and shooting practice from training.

Saying that he needs a pat on the back and some kind words to do footballing basics is nonsensical. This isn't academy football, those things are supposed to be in your game before you become a professional. And chances are that those things will take multiple years to get into his game, because to add those aspects to your game as an adult is very difficult.

With that said. It’s a surprise how he even made it!!!! Just for my education give me an example where his lack of football intelligence showed in a game. I’ll have go view it myself.

 

[shirked]

Nothing to with him not taking his chances then? He made 45 appearances last season FFS!

I just don't think Mourinho is the best manager for the boy. Young players rarely improve under him. His track record suggests that he buys older players who have already reached their highest level. Matic is the most recent example and he was one of our standout performers last season. Pains me to say it but if he leaves for Spurs, Pochettino will develop him into a star. We've seen glimpses of Martial's brilliance, we just don't have the manager to coax it out of him on a consistent basis. Some of that has to do with playing time too. After January he rarely featured.

 

[iphone5]

Sign the contract Anthony or leave and we will buy you back for 200m in the future!

 

[kouroux]

This is what I was getting at. Nowadays, a player can sign a 6 year deal and yet stir rumors of an exit before the ink has dried. So by "mentality", I meant the desire to match Jose's expectations which really won't be there for 80% of the players.

Jose's man-mamagement needs to change.

Good point. If Jose isn't ready to tweak his management a little then he has to target players who are very strong mentally and not for instance, someone like Mkhytaryan.

 

[el3mel]

I don't think it's the warrior stuff it's just the point that Martial doesn't run up and down consistently as much as Mbappe. While Mbappe was in Monaco Di Marzio linked us to him and said Mourinho loves him and sees him as the new Ronaldo or something like that. Martial is great while having the ball but in some games he appears as he's playing in his own world away from the game itself. He has the talent but simply doesn't have the same explosiveness as Mbappe. I can't see Martial doing the same run as Mbappe when he got the penalty even though Martial is fast.

 

[SirAF]

I don't think it's the warrior stuff it's just the point that Martial doesn't run up and down consistently as much as Mbappe. While Mbappe was in Monaco Di Marzio linked us to him and said Mourinho loves him and sees him as the new Ronaldo or something like that. Martial is great while having the ball but in some games he appears as he's playing in his own world away from the game itself. He has the talent but simply doesn't have the same explosiveness as Mbappe. I can't see Martial doing the same run as Mbappe when he got the penalty even though Martial is fast.

This.

 

[sunama]

Sounds like a WUM.

You seriously believe that Martial is good enough to have a side built around him?

 

[sunama]

I don't think it's the warrior stuff it's just the point that Martial doesn't run up and down consistently as much as Mbappe. While Mbappe was in Monaco Di Marzio linked us to him and said Mourinho loves him and sees him as the new Ronaldo or something like that. Martial is great while having the ball but in some games he appears as he's playing in his own world away from the game itself. He has the talent but simply doesn't have the same explosiveness as Mbappe. I can't see Martial doing the same run as Mbappe when he got the penalty even though Martial is fast.

Agreed.

 

[Damien]

Is probably the closest thing Martial has done. Different circumstances in that there's more players in the opposition half and the run didn't start from own half like Mbappe:


Mbappe's run was at 37 km/h but Martial has been clocked at 35.4 km/h before against Newcastle a couple of years ago. Whether Martial could do that over a long distance I doubt but he did have that explosiveness in his debut season here.

 

[tenpoless]

Didn't Di Maria and Ozil play a lot under Jose? those players are known to be 'mentally weak' or being called 'bottlers' but They performed really well. Mentality does play a part but I always think it's all about whether a player has shown He's good enough first and foremost, for Jose. It's never about age as well, look at Varane. I doubt He goes around looking for "warrior" type of footballers.

Martial has shown glimpses of what He can do but not consistent enough to guarantee a permanent spot. At least not with players like Rashford and Sanchez around. I think that's fair. Had He started only 5 games last season, I would've complained too.

 

[TheReligion]

I'm a big Martial fan but he has to accept some responsibility surely?

Strolling about the pitch at home when one down to WBA isn't acceptable and is not what I want to see in a United shirt. That's not Jose's fault either.

 

[haram]

Didn't Di Maria and Ozil play a lot under Jose? those players are known to be 'mentally weak' or being called 'bottlers' but They performed really well. Mentality does play a part but I always think it's all about whether a player has shown He's good enough first and foremost, for Jose. It's never about age as well, look at Varane. I doubt He goes around looking for "warrior" type of footballers.

Martial has shown glimpses of what He can do but not consistent enough to guarantee a permanent spot. At least not with players like Rashford and Sanchez around. I think that's fair. Had He started only 5 games last season, I would've complained too.

Mourinho also literally signed Mkhi and gave him several chances. Lingard replaced him and we are much better off.

 

[EyeInTheSky]

Can we all take a moment to acknowledge this post?

This is the post that made me think that the statements some have made on here about it being a mods WUM account actually being true.

 

[EyeInTheSky]

I'm a big Martial fan but he has to accept some responsibility surely?

Strolling about the pitch at home when one down to WBA isn't acceptable and is not what I want to see in a United shirt. That's not Jose's fault either.

I suppose it’s not Jose’s fault that he split up with his baby mama 2 seasons ago and family issues to??

Get out of Jose’s arse for a second and smell the croissants will yah!

 

[EyeInTheSky]

Here's another one of his "ITK" posts, I'm pretty sure Glaston has come on here and sourced himself, well it's either him or Trump.

This is challenging rawk for cringe levels.

Litterallly made me grimace and turn away from the screen

 

[EyeInTheSky]

I think the Martial / Jose problem is one of mentality and chemistry between boss and surbodunate. Martial seems to me to be the type of guy that is very sensitive and requires tender loving care. Jose in the other hand craves loyalty, commitment and tough mentality. I think it explains Jose's strange fondness for Fellaini and why his pet players seem to be players like Young, Valencia, Rashford and Matic. These guys seem like players that don't need much cuddling or players who will not mind giving their jersey numbers to a legend that decides to join the club.

It might be a managerial weakness of Jose or a fault Martial has but it is what it is. In football, some players and managers just don't gell. It's best they go their separate ways and that does not mean they won"t both succeed without each other.

Good post. So good you said it twice !

 

[GM K]

Didn't Di Maria and Ozil play a lot under Jose? those players are known to be 'mentally weak' or being called 'bottlers' but They performed really well. Mentality does play a part but I always think it's all about whether a player has shown He's good enough first and foremost, for Jose. It's never about age as well, look at Varane. I doubt He goes around looking for "warrior" type of footballers.

Martial has shown glimpses of what He can do but not consistent enough to guarantee a permanent spot. At least not with players like Rashford and Sanchez around. I think that's fair. Had He started only 5 games last season, I would've complained too.

I have a feeling Jose believes that if a player can't bear being rotated or fighting for a shirt and wants out on that basis, he is mentally weak. On the other hand,Jose might genuinely not want players to be unhappy (i.e if they want out) as he has insinuated a few times so he lets them go when they ask to go. But once he knows a player prefers to leave, he stops playing him regularly to focus on those he reckons will be with him for the long term.

 

[TheReligion]

All the news from the club is he's going nowhere.

Reports state Spurs have been scared off and Juve told to forget it. With two years on his contract United firmly in the driving seat with this one.

 

[EyeInTheSky]

All the news from the club is he's going nowhere.

Reports state Spurs have been scared off and Juve told to forget it. With two years on his contract United firmly in the driving seat with this one.

I think you are underestimating the pull of a new stadium. I just hope that he has not had his head turned by Exeter city building a 1600 capacity stand.

 

[TheReligion]

I think you are underestimating the pull of a new stadium. I just hope that he has not had his head turned by Exeter city building a 1600 capacity stand.

 

[Oldyella]

All the news from the club is he's going nowhere.

Reports state Spurs have been scared off and Juve told to forget it. With two years on his contract United firmly in the driving seat with this one.

Good. Although I hope we are not just keeping him 'because' and he actually gets a fair crack. Still think signing Sanchez when we already had 2 good young players fighting it out for the one spot on LW has caused more problems than his performances have been worth.

 

[DarkChildUTD]

It has been claimed martial has bad off the ball movement. Why do we have coaches at united if not a single one can correct this? If it's all up to the players to improve by themselves and play brilliant football thenwhy waste money on the manager and coaches?

 

[EyeInTheSky]

It has been claimed martial has bad off the ball movement. Why do we have coaches at united if not a single one can correct this? If it's all up to the players to improve by themselves and play brilliant football thenwhy waste money on the manager and coaches?

The whole point is that he is not listening to the coaches and manger.

They can’t play for him. It’s about time people realised that he has to take at least some responsibility for something... anything.

I can’t imagine the coaches are saying “ hey Tony, make sure you don’t move and mope about as much as possible”

 

[Ashley R1+O]

What M’Bappe has over Martial is mentality and maturity, while being younger. Both can be like Henry, but M’Bappe is more focused.

I don't think it can be doubted, completely agree. There is a definite gap that Martial needs to overcome not just for the clubs sake but for his own sake. This year is a real crossroads year for him.

 

[redIndianDevil]

The whole point is that he is not listening to the coaches and manger.

They can’t play for him. It’s about time people realised that he has to take at least some responsibility for something... anything.

I can’t imagine the coaches are saying “ hey Tony, make sure you don’t move and mope about as much as possible”

If all the others are listening to the coaches, why are they so shite and as bad as Martial?

 

[EyeInTheSky]

If all the others are listening to the coaches, why are they so shite and as bad as Martial?

So shite that we finished 2nd and won 2 trophies after getting to 3 finals in 2 years.

Also just like every other manager players that consistently don’t listen get left out.

Your post is shite. Every post I have seen from you is shite. Welcome to the ignore garbage heap.

 

[KM]

From Glaston's same source that provided that Martial has already visited Spurs training stadium

http://www.spurscommunity.co.uk/index.php?threads/update-44-hercules-on-plea-martial.133383/

We are interested in Plea. Let us see now if it goes further (or not). Martial proving extremely difficult to do. Not dead though.

You'd think he will learn from this and not post any shit again. But then again, it's Glaston.

 

[do.ob]

 

[Decomposing In Paris]

Martial is going to get better over the next few years whether he's here or not. This idea that a 25 year old Martial playing for Poch is likely to be better than a 22 year old Martial playing for Jose is probably true, but not for the reason people usually jump to.

 

[roonster09]

From Glaston's same source that provided that Martial has already visited Spurs training stadium

http://www.spurscommunity.co.uk/index.php?threads/update-44-hercules-on-plea-martial.133383/


You'd think he will learn from this and not post any shit again. But then again, it's Glaston.

Covered all the bases.
If they don't sign - "I said extremely difficult".
If they sign - "I said it's not dead"

and then Spurs fans will hail their ITKs.

 

[Smores]

It has been claimed martial has bad off the ball movement. Why do we have coaches at united if not a single one can correct this? If it's all up to the players to improve by themselves and play brilliant football thenwhy waste money on the manager and coaches?

Wow what a view of how football works

I didn't realise all those players at top clubs who have failed due to poor footballing brains only failed because the coaches forgot to tell them what to do.

 

[breakout67]

It has been claimed martial has bad off the ball movement. Why do we have coaches at united if not a single one can correct this? If it's all up to the players to improve by themselves and play brilliant football thenwhy waste money on the manager and coaches?

Do players turn world class overnight in your head? Lingard took an age to improve his goalscoring and strength, these things require time and practice. Pogba also needed a few years at Juventus to stop losing the ball all the time and have a better final ball.

Martial is not a freak talent that is a complete player by 21. He'll be a top top player in 2-3 years.

 

[IrishRedDevil]

From Glaston's same source that provided that Martial has already visited Spurs training stadium

What? lol. I suppose Martial, the most laid back person around, was completely blown away by it all and devastated at the mere thought of having to return to the slums of Carrington.