Dortmund aren't a big threat. That's the equivalent of Blackburn/newcastle challening us for the league in 95 and 96 or Valencia/Atletico challenging Real with Barca not existing.
Brilliant Premier League, but at what cost to the rest of football?
- Thread starter Rozay
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What's a strong contender if it's not Dortmund, who are historically one of Germany's biggest clubs?
Thats the point, Dortmund have to be almost as strong as Bayern for them to generate the required level of external support to bring in international viewers. Arsenal getting stronger from 98 onward strengthened the Premier League. That's what has to happen in Germany.What's a strong contender if it's not Dortmund, who are historically one of Germany's biggest clubs?
I'm not sure what you mean by strong. They won 2 leagues and a bunch of cups and made it to a CL final. Unless you're advocating for their takeover by a foreign oligarch.
As others have said, football is just going through a cycle where EPL clubs are at the top just now.
The likes of Barca Real Bayern will always be bigger clubs than most EPL clubs, just that the money in the EPL is helping the smaller clubs catch up faster
The likes of Barca Real Bayern will always be bigger clubs than most EPL clubs, just that the money in the EPL is helping the smaller clubs catch up faster
I agree, plus some fantastic stadiums. They've caught up in all aspects I listed.
It's a popular league in Japan due to the number of Japanese players in the league.
You don’t get it, it is in the spanish culture. I was in Valencia once and there was a classico and everyone was rooting for Barcelona. Real and Barca are everyone second team at least there.
This is the other end of the same ownership debate. The money doping can’t continue. City is built of plastic and oil by a nation state as a sportswashing franchise. Football fair play needs to be instituted. Like some other more pressing issues faced by humanity, we seem incapable as humans of acting - even in our own self interest - until it’s too late.
Maybe this review of football will take thd well-being of the game in a broader sense into account. How grown up that would be.
Maybe this review of football will take thd well-being of the game in a broader sense into account. How grown up that would be.
Bundesliga was already competitive before the 2000s, from the 60s to the year 2000 they had 11 different champions in 37 seasons...In the same period the English League had 10 different Champions.
Bosman killed Bundesliga as it allowed Bayern Munich to have no restrictions for european foreign talent, as the european talent were not considered "foreigners" anymore, and could have more than 3 on the pitch.
On top of that german clubs were never known for spending lot of money on transfers, more problems for german teams whose name wasn't Bayern Munich.
I did a quick research, and yes apparently England was the league with the least amount of foreigners, in pre-Bosman era, when compared to Italy/Germany/Spain/France...and the overwhelming majority of the "foreigners" were irish.
In the other 4 countries the nationality of the foreigners was more diverse.
The most common nationalities between the foreigners were :
Bundesliga: scandinavians (most of them danish), yugoslavs, and austrians.
Serie A : argentinians,brazilians,swedish, and germans.
Ligue 1 : algerians,yugoslavs,camerooneses, and argentinians
La Liga : argentinians,paraguayans, and brazilians.
German teams did dominate in the 70s with the Monchengladbach's and Hamburg's.
I felt slightly sad watching the Champions League Semi-Finals and watching UAE Oil vs Qatari Oil and then Russian Oil vs Real Madrid.
The problem is, you lose the romanticism that fans love. Hundreds of millions around the world have a passion for Barcelona, Juventus, AC Milan, Manchester Utd, Liverpool, Arsenal, Bayern, Ajax, Inter Milan etc...but these teams are increasingly struggling to compete.
We need those teams to be strong for the good of football. I have no love for Liverpool at all but I guarantee hundreds of millions tune-in excitedly to watch peak Liverpool vs peak Barcelona in the CL Semi-Final. Likewise peak Juventus vs peak Arsenal etc...I remember the Champions League nights as a kid were special. Now I sit and flick the games on and watch one plastic, souless vessel take-on another in empty stadiums. Can barely even raise a pulse.
How many people care about PSG, City and Chelsea? They have perhaps 300K fans between them globally and most of that is Chelsea because of their popularity in Africa. Meanwhile hundreds of millions of fans feel disenfranchised watching a team who spent £400m on two players get battered by a team with a £450m bench
The problem is, you lose the romanticism that fans love. Hundreds of millions around the world have a passion for Barcelona, Juventus, AC Milan, Manchester Utd, Liverpool, Arsenal, Bayern, Ajax, Inter Milan etc...but these teams are increasingly struggling to compete.
We need those teams to be strong for the good of football. I have no love for Liverpool at all but I guarantee hundreds of millions tune-in excitedly to watch peak Liverpool vs peak Barcelona in the CL Semi-Final. Likewise peak Juventus vs peak Arsenal etc...I remember the Champions League nights as a kid were special. Now I sit and flick the games on and watch one plastic, souless vessel take-on another in empty stadiums. Can barely even raise a pulse.
How many people care about PSG, City and Chelsea? They have perhaps 300K fans between them globally and most of that is Chelsea because of their popularity in Africa. Meanwhile hundreds of millions of fans feel disenfranchised watching a team who spent £400m on two players get battered by a team with a £450m bench
That's where I'm lost, you basically don't care about local fans and look down on them, PSG is the club of Ile De France, they have slightly more than 300k fans. You also mentioned 3 clubs that have historically been sugar daddied as the romantic teams, one of them making a mockery out of world record transfers in the 80s-90s. There is a clear double standard and snobbery among certan football fans.
To be honest I think the explanation is fairly obvious and purely cultural.
The EPL is far more popular in places where English is used more and known either as a 1st or 2nd language this includes many countries that have significant wealth where supporters have spending power like the US, Australia, NZ, Japan, South Korea etc and also poorer countries but ones with a minority that have spending power or large populations like South Africa, India etc
La Liga has pulling power in south and Central America and Spanish speaking parts of the US but apart from the US these are countries where the population has very little economic spending ability
The EPL is far more popular in places where English is used more and known either as a 1st or 2nd language this includes many countries that have significant wealth where supporters have spending power like the US, Australia, NZ, Japan, South Korea etc and also poorer countries but ones with a minority that have spending power or large populations like South Africa, India etc
La Liga has pulling power in south and Central America and Spanish speaking parts of the US but apart from the US these are countries where the population has very little economic spending ability
There's a trend tpwards the right direction in recent years but in general, the Bundesliga has slept on the whole social media thing. We as a culture are pretty skeptical of new technologies and social networks - even these days maybe every tenth person has a Twitter account over here at best. For most of my life ai could easily find highlight clips of players we were linked to, even if they played second division in Brazil. But Bundesliga players.. forget it. I believe this partly comes down to Germans generally being less engaged content creators but it also had to do with the Bundesliga being very defensive about their content, deleting it all from YouTube and even filing law suits. Two years ago I tried to find a compilation of Brandt's brillant Bundesliga season but the videos only featured scenes from Germany games and the DFB cup which were available in free TV. Could you imagine not finding a great video of an English national player who just scored 20 scorers in half a season as a CM? There are still only a handful useful videos of him out there.
At the times of Neymar, Hazard and Götze it became incredibly obvious. There were thousands of Neymar videos on YouTube, hundreds of Hazard but Götze? Literally only a handful and they usually only featured goals and assists, not the silky skills that get viewers hooked.
That's German culture in a nutshell. While other nation's football organizations encourage user generated content, our football organizations insist on their rights and force it offline. The prople in important positions still don't get how this internet thing works.
The reason why PL is successful is because they considered the needs of rest of the world as well in addition to domestic supporters. And they managed to do it when football was becoming more popular in Asia and North America.
Look at most weekend games. Apart from this season, the last game would end at 7:30 or so BST in summer months. That means, even the last game can be watched by most people (of course it would be quite late for Australia or Japanese supporters), but you managed to capture India, China and ME markets quite easily. Similarly, the luchtime kickoff isn't too early for people in America.
Compare that with kickoff timings in La Liga and Serie A and there you go. BuLi has started becoming more popular , but I think they missed the 2002 Korea-Japan WC train, to make the league more mainstream. If I'm supporting a club, I want to be able to watch every game - irrespective of the importance, and waking up at 3am once or twice is fine, but that's not how you'd gain more supporters to the teams in your league.
Add to that, the production quality of PL is vastly superior to La Liga and Serie A, with BuLi the only competitor on this aspect, but even they aren't as close.
PL is just reaping the rewards of having successfully globalized the league and you can't really blame them for that
Look at most weekend games. Apart from this season, the last game would end at 7:30 or so BST in summer months. That means, even the last game can be watched by most people (of course it would be quite late for Australia or Japanese supporters), but you managed to capture India, China and ME markets quite easily. Similarly, the luchtime kickoff isn't too early for people in America.
Compare that with kickoff timings in La Liga and Serie A and there you go. BuLi has started becoming more popular , but I think they missed the 2002 Korea-Japan WC train, to make the league more mainstream. If I'm supporting a club, I want to be able to watch every game - irrespective of the importance, and waking up at 3am once or twice is fine, but that's not how you'd gain more supporters to the teams in your league.
Add to that, the production quality of PL is vastly superior to La Liga and Serie A, with BuLi the only competitor on this aspect, but even they aren't as close.
PL is just reaping the rewards of having successfully globalized the league and you can't really blame them for that
Also a very good point!
What a giant pile of shite. Chelsea are the 5th most followed club in the world across social media.
https://www.goal.com/en-ae/news/which-football-teams-have-most-fans/1qmg4j3457wvh1kxkb7qbdo7qn
We've been winning major trophies fairly regularly for well over 20 years and spent much of the 2000/2010s being the English team most regularly achieving in Europe. In what I am sure will come as a huge plot twist for you, this kind of thing actually attracts a lot of fans.
He's exaggerated on the fan base aspect but not quite a pile of shite level post. He has a point.
It's true Seria A has some systemic issues, but I don't think the Premier League should be the measuring stick, because realistically no one is catching up. The PL established itself in many overseas markets, and the vast majority of people won't watch more than one league. So globally people have formed an attachment, PL being their first, or second league at worst, and that won't change anytime soon. That being said leagues don't have to match the Premier League to thrive, even though that imbalance obviously causes some strain.
Seria A just signed an improved domestic tv deal with DAZN, which is far behind the PL's package but a bigger deal shows there's still room to grow and people are still engaged. They've also signed a new deal for North American broadcasting. As far as I know the Premier League's domestic tv deal is stagnating and even gone down a bit, which makes sense because there's only so far you can squeeze your customers. As long as Seria A can keep up with the other leagues behind the Premier League, I don't think there's a big problem. At the moment Italy doesn't have the best talent pool, but that can change quickly. Personally I can't see a future where one league will dominate and grow indefinitely at the expense of the other top leagues. After all they still have a large domestic market, even if there's less overseas interest.
La liga had a long long long period a best in world. Comparatively England last peak was for just a few years.
To me.... as an United fan living abroad, there are three main reasons that EPL, has a better product than any other league.
1. it’s more competetive than the other league. Especially when it comes to the smaller teams.
2. The football played in EPL has more energy and power than for example La Liga.
3. The football culture is second to none. Seeing the fans at stadium, the emotions the singing, it’s nothing like visiting Camp Nou where the spectators just wave their napkins once in a while. The english club have also managed to storytell their clubs history in a much better way, than clubs of Italy, france, spain or germany.
That is the same reasons, that I would rather see the Scottish Premier League than any other league besides EPL.
1. it’s more competetive than the other league. Especially when it comes to the smaller teams.
2. The football played in EPL has more energy and power than for example La Liga.
3. The football culture is second to none. Seeing the fans at stadium, the emotions the singing, it’s nothing like visiting Camp Nou where the spectators just wave their napkins once in a while. The english club have also managed to storytell their clubs history in a much better way, than clubs of Italy, france, spain or germany.
That is the same reasons, that I would rather see the Scottish Premier League than any other league besides EPL.
We have one of the most brilliant exports in the premier leagues why care about anyone else they are not going hungry.
It’s essentially a subscriptions service, I mean it could soon rival Netflix, think it has around 20 billion revenues.
It will go in circles anyway, let’s be honest one of the main reasons Spain isn’t like the premier league because it could be better, is because the top two take most of the revenues.
Man Utd is a phenomenon in this sense however, imagine somehow we did have our own match subscriptions service and say 10 percent of our fan base paid £1 to watch a game, that’s £100 million a game which would see our revenues at £5 billion a year. I bet the Glazers so this when they brought us and I am so glad they haven’t got their way.
I really hope they are pressured into refurbishing old Trafford.
It’s essentially a subscriptions service, I mean it could soon rival Netflix, think it has around 20 billion revenues.
It will go in circles anyway, let’s be honest one of the main reasons Spain isn’t like the premier league because it could be better, is because the top two take most of the revenues.
Man Utd is a phenomenon in this sense however, imagine somehow we did have our own match subscriptions service and say 10 percent of our fan base paid £1 to watch a game, that’s £100 million a game which would see our revenues at £5 billion a year. I bet the Glazers so this when they brought us and I am so glad they haven’t got their way.
I really hope they are pressured into refurbishing old Trafford.
20billion is a bit unrealistic. Domestic rights have pretty much reached their limit at somewhere around £1.7 billion a season, and overseas is currently at £1.4 billion. So you'd need a huge increase there.
And I doubt anywhere close to 100m people would watch a United match on average. Are you saying United have a fanbase of 1billion people? 12.5% of the world population are United supporters?