8
I dont think we can make a current starting 11 that would be good without him.
Yeah he would. Like for like replacement for Tadic.
Please do read above clarifications. Those percentages omit crosses. With them, the percentages are as stated. And even the percentages as you quote them do not support your point that he had a world class game against Chelsea and the exact opposite against Bournemouth.
Tadic wouldnt work in that system in the Premier League either. You can use a player like that in that way in a league where you get more space. Not in the Premier League. Or well thats my opinion at least.
Yeah it's baffling. It's not like we're dealing with a young player here. We're talking about an established international footballer who consistently leads the Premier League rankings for "chances created" and who has previously posted phenomenal numbers for 'goal involvements'.
I will need to watch the matches again. I have to accept the stats tell a very different story.
Me three. Wasn’t it something ridiculously cowardly as well like dissent to the ref when we were already 3-0 down?
I think you are correct. We’d be undoubtedly worse without him. You could say that we’d be relegation standard, and perhaps you are right. I think the argument from the other side is that with him, we won’t be title winning standard. We’d be worse without him indeed, but we’ve also never been good enough with him either, so the fact is we are still searching for the ‘good enough’ formula. And there in lies the debate. I think at its best, we’d qualify for the Champions League. If that is our ultimate ambition, then he’s the man. I just don’t think he’s the man for the level above that. It’s more a case of the football that accentuates his strengths is good but not good enough IMO, and the football that exposes his weaknesses is unfortunately the type that will help us take the next step.
Of course I don't. I've been clear from the beginning that I think Bruno didn't have a bad one, from watching the game. Not a great one either, just a pretty good one. I have only brought stats into it for the light they can throw on the specific claims by those who think otherwise about what specifically they disapproved of. Of course stats are not a direct measure of everything and you can argue a lot of things, but you bloody well can't argue that compared to the previous game he was just hoofing it given those figures. It's just nonsense.
If you're going by stats, then yeah, those performances are similar, but if you watched the games seperately, you'll see quite easily one is a very good performance, and the other is very bad. Everyone can see it (unless you're Pogue who thinks every Bruno performance is a divine one) no matter what the stats tell you.
For the umpteenth time, I am not making an argument based on stats. I'm giving you the view I formed watching the game. It's as hard to understand for me how you can watch that game and reach your conclusion as it seems to be for you to understand the opposite. The stats just happen to back my view up. More to the point, they in most cases clearly contradict the stuff coming out when people are trying to explain just what exactly they think was the problem with Bruno's performance.
And even when he has a bad game, he busts a gut for the team. You cannot expect a player to have a good game every week. He's fundamental to this team and the very last person I'm worried about.
I think for him he's a good example of where we're setting up in an odd way. You know Bruno is going to give the ball away more often than we'd like (on top of others in attack) and so it's important we're compact in the middle however we continue to set up in a way that means we're so susceptible to a turnover. We also need to get more of the attackers running in behind to maximise what he has to bring.
You're saying stats aren't everything. They don't have a 1:1 relationship to what actually happened in the game. It's a fair, if pretty obvious point.
Except neither of us have ever said Bruno played shit purely because of stats. They are used in conjunction with what we see him do during the games. Some of his stalwart defenders on here use stats alone like "chances created" to justify his performances, which is why many of us are sick to death of seeing the constant twitter links from Statman Dave or other links.
I disagree, hes a major problem and I'd rather Eriksen or a new player play as the 10
Zaafi you're here after almost every game with Bruno's possession stats. If you're not judging solely on stats you're very close to doing so.
Showing how bad in possession he is with statistics isn't judging him purely on stats. It's judging him on one of his weaknesses. I'm watching the games and post based on his performance. Against Chelsea, I praised him and thought he had a fantastic game, and against Bournemouth, I thought he had an awful game. It is a player performance thread after all.
World class
I was sure somebody would try that angle. But I think, you missed the point. I am not discrediting available stats. I am saying that good stats not necessarily imply a good game. Obviously this applies the other way around as well but it is excplicitly nothing against specific stats.
Ah yes, his pressing in the 90th minute vs Chelsea which led to their GK kicking the ball out for a throw-in was very Paula Radcliffe esque. If only we had Martial on the pitch instead of Bruno, so he could jog around and allow the opposition to progress the ball further up the pitch.
I agree that he's our best attacking player, however I disagree with the argument of "who could do better" in the sense that changing our style of play might collectively be better in many instances even if it means dropping a good individual player or a player in form. Not necessarily Bruno, even though I used to think he won't be able to adapt to Erik's preferred style of play I am now coming round to the idea that he might be able to, but generally you could say Maguire has been in great form, which he has been, but it means we play a much lower line and it was only really against Chelsea that our backline played quick passes with him part of it. The same could be said for an in-form Rashford, who doesn't work out of possession which impacts the whole team. Or for Dave when he was making wonder saves but his distribution was atrocious and our playing out from the back was very shaky.
Yes, he's more hardworking than the benchmark of athleticism that is Martial...all is good.
I think you've missed my point. I get what you're saying about stats.
You asked what all of his running actually achieves. After providing an example of what it achieves, I presumed a comparison with someone who doesn't run very much would help explain the importance of off-the-ball running in this sport
Who could do better in our current squad. It's certainly not Mount, yes it's early on in his United career but he doesn't have a goal or assist to his name. Eriksen possibly, but he doesn't have the legs anymore to cope with the demands of playing higher up the pitch on a week by week basis. It's not Hannibal as he's far too rash and not good enough on the ball. Yes Bruno gives it away a lot, but he's also the only one that delivers on a consistent basis, he's our only consistent attacker. The only one that creates and he chips in with a decent amount of goals. To put it into perspective, he's got 11 Goals/Assists combined since the League Cup final, our next highest contributor is Rashford on 7, then Scott on 6, Martial on 5, Sancho on 4.
I find a great deal of comfort from this information, Bayern and Liverpool will be shitting it...Bruno will really show these workshy layabouts how to bust a gut, with the obvious exception of the Liverpool game which he bottled out of because he hasn't recovered from the last time when they reduced him to a public laughing stock...by ironically busting a gut, not in a stat padding way, in an effective way.You asked what all of his running actually achieves. After providing an example of what it achieves, I presumed a comparison with someone who doesn't run very much would help explain the importance of off-the-ball running in this sport
Indeed. Just like Keano and Scholes bottled out of the 99 final.
Yes, just like that
Not quite the clever comeback you think it is. They didn't get a yellow for dissent.
This is just… horseshit… in a thread full of horseshit.
Oh wait… it gets worse.
And equally the argument that he's playing well isn't made on the basis of stats either, with stats used in conjunction.
Me too. He knew full well what he was doing.
