[NZT-One]

I'm not sure whether supporting someone that has been our best player for years now can be considered an agenda, can it? I'd argue that's called 'being a fan'.

Of course it is an agenda when it is the reason for you to act smug. You use a good game where he got appreciated all over on here to look down on people who you think wronged you after games where the player was poor. As if good games are a more valuable currency than bad games. People who have criticised Bruno do so, because they think he isn't the best player United, their favorite club, can have. Even if you and a few others don't seem to be able to accept that and start talking of hate and negativity. Bruno received some criticism and some of it is over the top. And it isn't really helpful behaviour to call people out after particularly bad games. But what you did here is the exact same thing - you called people out after a good game. And you seem to think in your case it is justified and just behaviour, because you consider your reasons to do so as superior. They are not - you choose to feel confirmed by a good game. Others feel confirmed after a bad game. It is just opinions. Every one just as worthless as the next one.

By all means, do whatever you want but don't complain when after the next bad game there is movement in here again and you don't like it. You are just as invested and triggered by this topic as other people are, time to acknowledge that.

 

[Pickle85]

You may argue that supporting a player is called being a fan, others will look at the highest number of posts per poster and draw conclusions that all of the top contributors are agenda driven. I'm not sure which perspective makes more sense.

Surely it makes more sense for a fan of a club to support a player that has been widely accepted as that club's best player of the last five years, than to spend the same number of posts knocking him?

Anyway, yes, I like Bruno and think he's an excellent player and has broadly been brilliant for us. He's not without his faults and he's been below his usual standards this season but the folks that continuously knock him in the face of evidence to the contrary (his numbers, the fact that he's been the most important player for every coach since he was bought, the opinion of rival coaches on him) frustrate me.

 

[Pickle85]

Of course it is an agenda when it is the reason for you to act smug. You use a good game where he got appreciated all over on here to look down on people who you think wronged you after games where the player was poor. As if good games are a more valuable currency than bad games. People who have criticised Bruno do so, because they think he isn't the best player United, their favorite club, can have. Even if you and a few others don't seem to be able to accept that and start talking of hate and negativity. Bruno received some criticism and some of it is over the top. And it isn't really helpful behaviour to call people out after particularly bad games. But what you did here is the exact same thing - you called people out after a good game. And you seem to think in your case it is justified and just behaviour, because you consider your reasons to do so as superior. They are not - you choose to feel confirmed by a good game. Others feel confirmed after a bad game. It is just opinions. Every one just as worthless as the next one.

By all means, do whatever you want but don't complain when after the next bad game there is movement in here again and you don't like it. You are just as invested and triggered by this topic as other people are, time to acknowledge that.

You have more than double the number of posts here that I do, so I would absolutely dispute this.

It's absolutely not an agenda, see my post above.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

You have more than double the number of posts here that I do, so I would absolutely dispute this.

It's absolutely not an agenda, see my post above.

He has three times as many as me and regular portrays me as some sort of Bruno super fan. Go figure. Besides, I’d far rather be known for being a fan of one of our players than an obsessive hater.

 

[Gabriel Djemba-Bebe]

Surely it makes more sense for a fan of a club to support a player that has been widely accepted as that club's best player of the last five years, than to spend the same number of posts knocking him?

Anyway, yes, I like Bruno and think he's an excellent player and has broadly been brilliant for us. He's not without his faults and he's been below his usual standards this season but the folks that continuously knock him in the face of evidence to the contrary (his numbers, the fact that he's been the most important player for every coach since he was bought, the opinion of rival coaches on him) frustrate me.

I absolutely agree with you. My initial response was tinged with sarcasm. Even during some of Bruno's poor games this season, I was of the opinion that he had enough credit in the bank from the last 5 years to negate the barrage of criticism he receives on here. He was back to his best yesterday. I am confident that the more recent 'Bruno should be stripped of the captaincy' thread is going to age like milk.

 

[mctrials23]

I do love Bruno. He loves the club, seems like a top bloke and gives his all for the club 99% of the time. Treated poorly by our fanbase far too often. Yes he whinges too much and yes he has one of those faces but thats not his fault (well, the whinging is )

I sometimes question his effect on the way we play and whether he is capable of being part of a title winning side for us if that ever happens again while hes here but hes a top lad. One of very few players over the past decade that I truly appreciate in every way.

 

[Pickle85]

He has three times as many as me and regular portrays me as some sort of Bruno super fan. Go figure. Besides, I’d far rather be known for being a fan of one of our players than an obsessive hater.

I absolutely agree with you. My initial response was tinged with sarcasm. Even during some of Bruno's poor games this season, I was of the opinion that he had enough credit in the bank from the last 5 years to negate the barrage of criticism he receives on here. He was back to his best yesterday. I am confident that the more recent 'Bruno should be stripped of the captaincy' thread is going to age like milk.

Agree with both of you. I'd rather be accused of being positive about a player than relentlessly knocking them. And Bruno should have enough credit in the bank to have earned a little bit of grace from his own fans. I don't love the current incarnation of Rashford, for instance and while I've discussed this in the Rashford thread a few times I've broadly started clear.

Also, some of the revisionist histories here, in which Bruno is rewritten to having had a good season and that's about it, are baffling too.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Was very good. Part of me wonders, for example in his post match comments about where has the fight been etc. if he might be a player who suffers more than most with 'focus' for lack of a better word. He was good because he was disciplined in my mind yesterday, not because he was trying worldie passes and being a hero - he was clever around their box, he took the sensible options and, as ever, worked hard. It's like because it's Pool and they are clearly good at this moment in time, he was laser focused on his specific role for the team.

 

[Scandi Red]

Bruno is by all accounts a great guy behind the scenes and in the dressing room. There are just too many stories now.

I will never accept the notion that he's a poor leader. 90% of leadership happens before and after the game. And even on the pitch I would argue that he's not bad. Occasionally being sloppy in possession (people exaggerate this point in my opinion) and yelling at people (which Keane also did by the way) does not equal poor leadership. At least he backs it up by working harder than anyone, staying fit and delivering good numbers.

He will go down as one of the only good things to happen post Fergie.

 

[Scandi Red]

He has three times as many as me and regular portrays me as some sort of Bruno super fan. Go figure. Besides, I’d far rather be known for being a fan of one of our players than an obsessive hater.

He was the 3rd poster I had to put on ignore. The first 2 got banned a long time ago and I believe the Bruno threads were the main reason.

 

[RedorDead21]

Played really well. Comes out and talks about consistency which is laughable from him in particular. Which also ties in with leadership and his inability to be the leader we need. Nonetheless, when on form always one of our stand outs.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Was very good. Part of me wonders, for example in his post match comments about where has the fight been etc. if he might be a player who suffers more than most with 'focus' for lack of a better word. He was good because he was disciplined in my mind yesterday, not because he was trying worldie passes and being a hero - he was clever around their box, he took the sensible options and, as ever, worked hard. It's like because it's Pool and they are clearly good at this moment in time, he was laser focused on his specific role for the team.

To be fair, it’s not the first time we’ve seen the more composed and controlled Bruno this season. He definitely seems willing to reign in his chaotic tendencies for the new manager. Although he has got too emotional in games where we’re up against it and the whole team is playing badly, then he repeatedly tries Hail Mary creative passes when it’s clearly the worst option (his biggest flaw) The good/controlled performances are definitely being ignored in this thread full of comments about him being “shit all season” and implying yesterday was his first good performance.

 

[Scandi Red]

The good/controlled performances are definitely being ignored in this thread full of comments about him being “shit all season” and implying yesterday was his first good performance.

This is true.

And while WhoScored hardly is the ultimate source of truth or anything like that, it's not surprising that Bruno is one of only two United players with an average score of 7 or higher. The other player is Amad.

 

[tomaldinho1]

To be fair, it’s not the first time we’ve seen the more composed and controlled Bruno this season. He definitely seems willing to reign in his chaotic tendencies for the new manager. Although he has got too emotional in games where we’re up against it and the whole team is playing badly, then he repeatedly tries Hail Mary creative passes when it’s clearly the worst option (his biggest flaw) The good/controlled performances are definitely being ignored in this thread full of comments about him being “shit all season” and implying yesterday was his first good performance.

I do think he was mostly awful until the managerial change - though I have sympathy given ETH wanted more risk/directness. FA cup final is another example, big game and suddenly he's pure discipline again. I am hopeful of him under Amorim being a better player for us overall whilst having much worse stats than his early seasons, as much as that sounds like a contradiction.

 

[Lyng]

I do think he was mostly awful until the managerial change - though I have sympathy given ETH wanted more risk/directness. FA cup final is another example, big game and suddenly he's pure discipline again. I am hopeful of him under Amorim being a better player for us overall whilst having much worse stats than his early seasons, as much as that sounds like a contradiction.

Most of our players where though to be fair. Very difficult to shine under that Ping Pong tactic

 

[Ash_G]

As others have said when he's playing with composure he's undoubedly our most important player. Hopefully he can continue to reign himself in, it's sort of like how people used to say Rooney was always at his best playing on the edge, we don't want to clip the creativity Bruno has but there is also a time and place for it.

I think what continues to be highlighted though is that we desperately need at least one additional player who adds consistent creativity to our attack to support Bruno. We can't have it all fall on him, particularly as we know how he can be. If Rashford does move on hopefully we can invest the money in a goal scorer and a creator (which could be a wingback) although that might be wishing for too much!

 

[tomaldinho1]

Most of our players where though to be fair. Very difficult to shine under that Ping Pong tactic

I think you have to be fair and also put some criticism on the players for how they executed it - so many times we'd get the ball in a good position and Bruno (or another) would mess it up. Like the game where ETH was sacked, we should have won like 4 nil. You can blame ETH for tactical setups etc. but execution of simple passes and crosses is not on a coach, these issues still plague us with Amorim as well. I guess we also hold Bruno to higher standards given his age/captain/past form.

 

[Lyng]

I think you have to be fair and also put some criticism on the players for how they executed it - so many times we'd get the ball in a good position and Bruno (or another) would mess it up. Like the game where ETH was sacked, we should have won like 4 nil. You can blame ETH for tactical setups etc. but execution of simple passes and crosses is not on a coach, these issues still plague us with Amorim as well. I guess we also hold Bruno to higher standards given his age/captain/past form.

Oh I am not absolving the players from rightful blame. Even Amorim hasnt been able to get them to play like this until now. Its just that Bruno wasnt the only one who decidedly worse under Ten Hag.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Oh I am not absolving the players from rightful blame. Even Amorim hasnt been able to get them to play like this until now. Its just that Bruno wasnt the only one who decidedly worse under Ten Hag.

Oh yeah definitely not, I think he's got the most extreme good game 'high' versus bad game 'low' out of all our players though.

 

[Paddymcc]

Fair play to Bruno yesterday that was a real Captains performance.

Probably the best he has played in a big game for us.

If we can have more of that to the end of the season thank you.

 

[#07]

 

[Lyng]

Oh yeah definitely not, I think he's got the most extreme good game 'high' versus bad game 'low' out of all our players though.

I think thats very fair. At his best I think he is genuinly world class, but at his worst when the team is struggling in big matches he can become a downright detriment to the team. Good thing is, based on the interview after the match, he seems very much aware of it himself. I have a feeling we will see Bruno at his very best for us under Amorim.

 

[Escobar]

Man I hope he finds some form now and gets back to his best. He's been depressing to watch

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Heh. After a great performance they had to go with a photo of probably his worst moment in the game!

 

[Scandi Red]

Man I hope he finds some form now and gets back to his best. He's been depressing to watch

He's already on 17 G/A and probably 40-50 chances created (it was 99 for the calendar year anyways). And he's one of only two United players with a 7 (+) average score on WhoScored (obviously to be taken with a grain of salt, but they are rarely wrong about the high-ranking players). He's even improved his pass completion stats a bit.

Hardly depressing stuff.

 

[Gabriel Djemba-Bebe]

I do love Bruno. He loves the club, seems like a top bloke and gives his all for the club 99% of the time. Treated poorly by our fanbase far too often. Yes he whinges too much and yes he has one of those faces but thats not his fault (well, the whinging is )

I sometimes question his effect on the way we play and whether he is capable of being part of a title winning side for us if that ever happens again while hes here but hes a top lad. One of very few players over the past decade that I truly appreciate in every way.

On the caf (and I assume also on social media), for sure. However there is nothing but appreciation for Bruno at the ground every week. He gets his name sung more than any other player. This video below was a nice moment where he got his flowers. Apologies for recirculating an old clip but I thought it was relevant.

 

[mctrials23]

Was very good. Part of me wonders, for example in his post match comments about where has the fight been etc. if he might be a player who suffers more than most with 'focus' for lack of a better word. He was good because he was disciplined in my mind yesterday, not because he was trying worldie passes and being a hero - he was clever around their box, he took the sensible options and, as ever, worked hard. It's like because it's Pool and they are clearly good at this moment in time, he was laser focused on his specific role for the team.

I think Bruno feels a huge amount of pressure to create because when he doesn't in the past 4-5 years we don't create as a team. In a team that can create more, have more control and not rely on his output, he can be more measured. I imagine that Amorim is asking him to play like this regardless as he is prioritising the ultimate outcome over short term-ism that so many managers will fall back on very quickly.

Thats always been my biggest issue with Bruno. He creates so much but when hes playing without control and mirroring the chaos around him we rarely have games under wraps. I am never sure if he is the reason for it or just a symptom. Does he play like that because if he doesn't then we're crap and don't score and if he does then we are crap but we do score? I'm not sure.

I flit between the two. Its also the big reason IMO that we have players like Rashford and Garnacho who score goals but are limited fundamentally as footballers in any sort of proper system. They win games and score goals but the freedom you indulge them with means that you can't really progress as a team unit beyond a certain point. You can't have strikers who never get any service because your wingers always go for goal. You can't have players on the other wing when everything lives and dies down the other.

 

[erikcred]

Played really well. Comes out and talks about consistency which is laughable from him in particular. Which also ties in with leadership and his inability to be the leader we need. Nonetheless, when on form always one of our stand outs.

I don’t think he excluded himself from criticism on that front. Took responsibility like a captain should.

 

[Gordon S]

He's already on 17 G/A and probably 40-50 chances created (it was 99 for the calendar year anyways). And he's one of only two United players with a 7 (+) average score on WhoScored (obviously to be taken with a grain of salt, but they are rarely wrong about the high-ranking players). He's even improved his pass completion stats a bit.

Hardly depressing stuff.

I think people are desperate to find the scapegoat when things are not going well for the team. Lots of our players have been getting dogs abuse on here without really playing that bad. Sure, Bruno has not been playing to his highest level for a while but as you point out here, the abuse and hate he gets here is not correlating with his actual performances.

 

[Vidyoyo]

Why does this image look like an optical illusion

 

[Oscar Bonavena]

Outstanding yesterday, but his performance raises the same questions as it does of the team as a whole: where has this performance been hiding for the past 2 years and why can't you play like this every week?!

I was ready to bin him off after the sending off v Wolves but when he doesn't play, the team looks even more rudderless in attack. Even when he's playing poorly, he does a lot of organising and talking off the ball which goes unseen.

Like the whole team, that performance yesterday needs to be the standard for the rest of the season for Bruno.

 

[Mike Smalling]

I don’t think he excluded himself from criticism on that front. Took responsibility like a captain should.

Exactly. He very explicitly included himself in it.

Bruno can be a right moaner on the pitch, but I can't ever recall him saying anything wrong off it.

 

[Zed is not dead]

Could it be… is Bruno being praised by the Caf after a game where he had 72% pass completion ?????

Amorim really brought a revolution

 

[erikcred]

Could it be… is Bruno being praised by the Caf after a game where he had 72% pass completion ?????

Amorim really brought a revolution

When the opposition manager singles a player out for praise, it means he’s done alright.

 

[RedDevil@84]

Bruno can be a right moaner on the pitch, but I can't ever recall him saying anything wrong off it.

People make too much about his moaning on the pitch, and try to derive meanings and talk about moral impact on the team etc etc. It is all way over the top. Don't think anyone cares whether he moans or not, as long as he gives everything.
He works and acts like a proper professional and talks lovely too.

Zlatan used to talk absolute nonsense about being a lion and king and above all. But on the pitch, you can find him flying, helping the team, not being selfish, talking good about his team mates and not picking arguments.

People read too much into body language and stuff.

 

[Escobar]

He's already on 17 G/A and probably 40-50 chances created (it was 99 for the calendar year anyways). And he's one of only two United players with a 7 (+) average score on WhoScored (obviously to be taken with a grain of salt, but they are rarely wrong about the high-ranking players). He's even improved his pass completion stats a bit.

Hardly depressing stuff.

He has been very depressing to watch in recent years. Yes he's still creative but nothing compared to his first few seasons, whilst having become quite frustrating in his overall play

 

[Scandi Red]

He has been very depressing to watch in recent years. Yes he's still creative but nothing compared to his first few seasons, whilst having become quite frustrating in his overall play

Meh... I like watching hard-working, passionate, creative and productive players, but that's just me.

Hell, if the rest of our players only had half of those superlatives we'd be a great team!

 

[RedDevil@84]

When the opposition manager singles a player out for praise, it means he’s done alright.

SAF: Charlie Adam's freekick alone is worth 10M

 

[Gabriel Djemba-Bebe]

SAF: Charlie Adam's freekick alone is worth 10M

My Liverpool supporting workmate still brings that up as if Fergie was to blame for them chucking money at a bang average footballer.

 

[Raoul]

He seemed possessed yesterday. Ditto with Dalot. They must have received a Portuguese motivational speech from Ruben during the week.