The problem is Glazers and Woodward end of.
Can we stop blaming managers and start looking at the real problem?
- Thread starter WensleyMU
- Start date
100% they are the biggest problem.
However that doesn't mean Ole is perfect either. Had he never played for us they'd not have even picked up the phone for him, let's be honest.
Ole will not achieve 20% of what Jose has in his career. Probably less than that actually.
You’re comparing owners who invested the second highest net spend over the past 5 years and brought in LVG and Mourinho to Bury and Bolton?
No, hence the second paragraph with a direct comparison with awful owners and the damage they can do.
Also, this idea the glazers have invested a single penny of their own money is pretty laughable.
Yeah, it's looking more and more likely that we're not going to be competing for the title as long as the Glazers and their transfer structure (if we actually have one) are pulling the strings. At this point United is basically a money making cooporation and actually playing football and winning titles has become a side business or a convenient bonus for the owner's pockets.
I guess this was what Mourinho realised when he soured and why he claimed that our second place was his greatest ever achievement or whatever he said.
I believe, like the OP, that we're basically fecked as long as we're owned by the Glazers, not matter who's in charge.
I guess this was what Mourinho realised when he soured and why he claimed that our second place was his greatest ever achievement or whatever he said.
I believe, like the OP, that we're basically fecked as long as we're owned by the Glazers, not matter who's in charge.
Agree with OP. But the weird thing is we are still here gnashing our teeth at these chiselers who have bought our beloved club. They feel nothing for it but know that no matter how much money they suck out of it, no matter how mediocre we are, we will still come back and watch, hoping against hope that a miracle happens.
In that sense, we are all like hooked drug addicts, with a dealer who knows that he will make money no matter how unfavorable to us he makes the quality and/or the price of the product. The reason why we are in this predicament is because we are hooked to this legal drug, and there is nothing we can do to unhook ourselves.
I have stopped buying merchandise and canceled MUTV, but I cannot stop watching my beloved team no matter what these Glazers do. This is therefore our life and, I hope, this too shall pass.
In that sense, we are all like hooked drug addicts, with a dealer who knows that he will make money no matter how unfavorable to us he makes the quality and/or the price of the product. The reason why we are in this predicament is because we are hooked to this legal drug, and there is nothing we can do to unhook ourselves.
I have stopped buying merchandise and canceled MUTV, but I cannot stop watching my beloved team no matter what these Glazers do. This is therefore our life and, I hope, this too shall pass.
It's not the Glaziers fault that managers have wasted the clubs money. We have spent enough to be challenging for the title. The Glaziers don't decide who we buy, or don't coach them on the training pitch, neither can they dictate a players performance.
Look at who the club has purchased with Glaziers at the helm.
Di Maria
Sanchez
Lakaku
Fred
Depay
Matic
Pogba (they shouldn't have had to because we should have played him in the first place)
Maguire
Wan Bissaka
Darmian
Shaw
Mata
Bailey
Lindelof
Martial
Hererra
Insert other [players here]
It's lazy, unfair and inaccurate to blame the Glaziers for this. Look at how many of these players signed for large transfer fees/wages and underperformed.
If you want to blame them for the amount of debt they put on the club into that to purchase it, then I'll agree to criticise them for this.
Sadly most teams will sit deep against us.
yes but there was so many players that were better than what we have that was available for us to buy. Why do we always try to buy players that are not available? To show to the fans that Woodward is willing to spend money to buy big names. Look at Arsenal now. We have heard of the Greek Philosopher Socrates but never heard of the football player Sokratis. The same with the French kid who signed from a French second division side. Why do we always have to buy GAreth Bale or Fabregas or anyone else who is not going to come to United? Surely Arsenal got a bargain at 7 million for this kid. He is brilliant. The same with the Southampton Danish defender Vestergaard. So there are many bargains to be had if the club had really looked. Players who are better than what we have and for reasonable prices.
Since the 2017/18 season:
De Gea has declined massively
Matic has fallen off a cliff
Herrera gone
Fellaini gone
Lukaku gone
Matic, Fellaini, Herrera and Lukaku weren’t necessarily great players but they were very efficient at their job in Mourinho’s second season. Then there was De Gea who was in legendary form that season and saved United 15 points on his own.
The new midfielders introduced in the team since then (McTominay, Fred, Perreira) are a downgrade on Fellaini, Herrera and Matic.
De Gea has declined massively
Matic has fallen off a cliff
Herrera gone
Fellaini gone
Lukaku gone
Matic, Fellaini, Herrera and Lukaku weren’t necessarily great players but they were very efficient at their job in Mourinho’s second season. Then there was De Gea who was in legendary form that season and saved United 15 points on his own.
The new midfielders introduced in the team since then (McTominay, Fred, Perreira) are a downgrade on Fellaini, Herrera and Matic.
It’s taken 7 years, but the squad is now a comfortable mid table squad. Who’s going to score our goals? Who’s going to be consistent week in week out? We’re absolutely country miles off city and Liverpool. Our transfer windows have been abysmal and it’s finally caught up to us.
Ole is part to blame, but there’s so many problems at United it’s not funny.
Ole is part to blame, but there’s so many problems at United it’s not funny.
These threads are sad. Mainly because we all know the problems which need a solution, but as fans, we can hold us responsible, too. As mentioned in other similar threads, an aggressive hit to merchandise market and matchday revenue might help, but it needs to be tried out. Maybe the sponsors would not extend the contracts and deals with the club due to bad publicity. But it stays as "maybe" until it has been put into work.
At the moment we can hope for some filthy rich United fan, who is interested in restoring the glory and willing to overpay for the club, because this is the only option how to change the board completely. It seems that Glazers are uninterested in football and seeing it just as a company which generates profits. It will happen some time, but the worse the gameplay gets and results become, the faster some takeover happens due to rapid drop of share price.
Of course i'd like to see top players, top coaches and development - who doesn't? To be honest, I was surprised that the board chose Ole. I thought maybe Blanc would have his chance. Quite underrated manager. The moment United gets proper people on board - a DoF, more football people, then we can see some changes IF the owners have changed. Wouldn't mind an Arab investment, because this is where the money is and money talks. Easy as it is. City project is plastic, but working and becoming even better. They have a clear plan, ideas and seem to have no quarrels and problems in the club. They are doing a great job.
I think that the lack of DoF is the issue now. Moyes was a bad decision and a good DoF had avoided it; LVG was okay, but was a bit outdated. Mourinho was wrong call, because his gameplay was suitable to underdogs (Chelsea, Inter) but not United. I wouldn't mind to see Pochettino as a United manager, but not under the Glazers. Nobody should be wasted under them. I hope that some takeover is work in progress and dying to see changes.
At the moment we can hope for some filthy rich United fan, who is interested in restoring the glory and willing to overpay for the club, because this is the only option how to change the board completely. It seems that Glazers are uninterested in football and seeing it just as a company which generates profits. It will happen some time, but the worse the gameplay gets and results become, the faster some takeover happens due to rapid drop of share price.
Of course i'd like to see top players, top coaches and development - who doesn't? To be honest, I was surprised that the board chose Ole. I thought maybe Blanc would have his chance. Quite underrated manager. The moment United gets proper people on board - a DoF, more football people, then we can see some changes IF the owners have changed. Wouldn't mind an Arab investment, because this is where the money is and money talks. Easy as it is. City project is plastic, but working and becoming even better. They have a clear plan, ideas and seem to have no quarrels and problems in the club. They are doing a great job.
I think that the lack of DoF is the issue now. Moyes was a bad decision and a good DoF had avoided it; LVG was okay, but was a bit outdated. Mourinho was wrong call, because his gameplay was suitable to underdogs (Chelsea, Inter) but not United. I wouldn't mind to see Pochettino as a United manager, but not under the Glazers. Nobody should be wasted under them. I hope that some takeover is work in progress and dying to see changes.
These links do not prove what you have said at all. It does not show Moyes dithered or tried to buy him at the end of the window, it just says everything was in place from our side. Same for Herrera, it just says that Herrera had not put in a transfer request even though we had reached the buyout clause. There is no source there on any other players.
I said the club were willing to back Moyes financially and that they were willing to pay a world record for Bale. Both are true and that link is Moyes confirming that we made a bid for Bale. What more do you want another one, ok?
https://www.express.co.uk/sport/foo...avid-Moyes-Gareth-Bale-Cesc-Fabregas-transfer
On Herrera here is Graham Hunter speaking about a conversation he had with Moyes in 2013, where Moyes confirms we were in for Herrera (as if that needed confirming). It also details that it was the Club and not him that decided to move for Herrera when ideally he wanted to wait another 12 months.
https://www.espn.com/soccer/blog/name/93/post/1908047/headline
DeRossi himself confirming he could have joined United in the summer of 2013.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/jan/03/daniele-derossi-roma-suicide-manchester-united
Anything else you need me to Google for you mate, or can you take it from here?
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You said Moyes dithered and ran out of time, nothing in there shows that. You are just linking vague statements and pushing that it supports what you have said, when they do not. It is just a narrative with nothing to really back it up.
Clearly he ran out of time we only signed Fellaini in the end.
So i can provide links to prove pretty much everything i said so now you are just going to focus on the part of my post that despite being obvious to anyone with half a functioning brain was clearly just my own opinion. Where do you imagine there would be a direct quote confirming that Moyes dithered?
From the series of events and the context coupled with Moyes historical inclination to dither in transfer windows we can reasonably assume that he yes also dithered in the summer of 2013.
The fact we waited until the end of august to sign Fellaini for £4-6m more than we could have signed him for in July points to that.
This bit from the Hunter article, suggests he was taking too long to make decisions and the club decided to step in and take over the reigns on transfers.
Do you know where the nickname Dithering Dave came from mate?
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New season, same s***e
4 games in and we're already 7 points from the top. To make it worse, it's Liverpool.
4 games in and we're already 7 points from the top. To make it worse, it's Liverpool.
Which matters nowt. José still proved an awful appointment. Pochettino for example still doesn’t have a trophy to his name, and will likely never come close to Mourinho in accumalated trophies but you can bet your ass there’s no Spurs fans out there dreaming ”what ifs” about Mourinho..
Ole could win absolutely nothing for us and still be a healthier and more succesful managerial appointment for us than Mourinho.
We have deep problems on almost every level inside this club but trying to ignore that our manager isn’t one of them is plain stupid.
What’s wrong, even a blind can see how his lack of tactical knowledge and his inexperience dealing with teams who park the bus cost us points. Not to mention our weird 4231 formation with our best and most creative player as defensive mid. We are so freaking thin in midfield that if Pogba gets long term injured then we’re totally fu**ed.
What’s wrong, even a blind can see how his lack of tactical knowledge and his inexperience dealing with teams who park the bus cost us points. Not to mention our weird 4231 formation with our best and most creative player as defensive mid. We are so freaking thin in midfield that if Pogba gets long term injured then we’re totally fu**ed.
So you're saying the problem is the owners and the board?
Well I'll be damned, you could be on to something there, Sherlock.
Well I'll be damned, you could be on to something there, Sherlock.
Your problems have stemmed from sacking Moyes and Van Gal too early in my opinion. You need to stick with Ole now or this cycle will continue.
We do.
The thing is we haven't really been that bad but the results have been poor. We can' break teams down but that isn't something new, we've struggled with that since Fergie left. IF Solskjaer can get them to at least punish some of these teams that sit deep against us AND our luck changes we'll be absolutely fine.
Solskjaer will get the whole season anyway. He's only had one window and I think everyone bar a minority can see it's not enough to fix our problems. He'll get until December 2020 at the very least.
Yeah, I'm sure...
I reckon Spurs would be better suited with a midfield 2 of Dier and Wanyama.
We certainly should not be sacking OGS this season-there is no point.
However, I keep having to remind myself that our team on paper SHOULD be able to beat Palace, Wolves and Southampton not to mention the teams we failed to beat at the latter part of the previous season.
I don't expect OGS to challenge for any trophies. I don't even expect him to get us into the top four. It could be argued that for those two expectations to be met then he needs to be supported better by the club's hierarchy but he DOES need to get the players he has playing better and that is HIS responsibility.
I have yet to see him stamp his own identity on our team, in fact, what is OGS's identity because there are some worrying signs that he is the mouthpiece of the board ?? "United have always been about youth"......so our transfer activity this year leads us to ONLY buying young players. "United always had a strong core of British players" so we ONLY buy British players this season
I think most teams struggle to break teams down barring the top 2 but even then they can slip up.
The only way this is ever going to work is to follow one model. Have a dof a panel whatever you want to call him/them. Decide how you want to play for the foreseeable future 10 or so years. Pick the best young manager you can who matches that style of play. Woody to give the dof or the panel the transfer money then take no other action regards this. Let them along with the manager make the decision who to bring in.
Coach is there to make players better and to adapt on what he has. Klopp played two CL finals with Milner-Henderson-Wynaldum(Fabinho) midfield. And with Lovren or Matip in defence. His system is just making his players better than they would be in other clubs. Same goes for other top managers.
Pogba, Fred, Matic, Mct and Pereira can be good midfield. But as a coach you must find a way to play on their strength. Pogba, Matic and Fred(Herrera, McT) midfield was very good in his interim manager period. We played nice football and created chances. Then he decided to play on Pogba on dmc and play on counters. That is just bad management. When you decide that you don't need big striker like Lukaku because you want to play some fast football and then you can't break defensive teams then again it is on coach. When you buy two defenders for over 100mil and your defence still looks weak then it is on coach.
Pogba, Fred, Matic, Mct and Pereira can be good midfield. But as a coach you must find a way to play on their strength. Pogba, Matic and Fred(Herrera, McT) midfield was very good in his interim manager period. We played nice football and created chances. Then he decided to play on Pogba on dmc and play on counters. That is just bad management. When you decide that you don't need big striker like Lukaku because you want to play some fast football and then you can't break defensive teams then again it is on coach. When you buy two defenders for over 100mil and your defence still looks weak then it is on coach.
Not replacing Herrera is one of the most mental/mind boggling decisions that I can think of... and I seriously doubt that was Ole's decision.
Jose is our most successful manager post Fergie. He wasn't perfect by any means but had he been backed last summer I think we'd have got top 4 again and he'd still be manager.
Look at the state of us now.
You are so right. That's why Pogba is playing deep and Lingard/Mata upfront. The team only has two reliable central midfielders. He can't play three because he doesn't have them. Maybe Fred will turn up one day metamorphosized into a pretty good CMF but I doubt it.
Think what you want, the guy spent over 400 million on players and this is the squad we have to show for it. He was a trainwreck and if we’d have backed him further we’d have lost the few talented players we have left to his scorched-earth management.
There isn’t any single issue. Collectively, the managers, the players and the board have needed to do better.
I still don't mind Jose i never hated him but i have to agree. Had he stayed the squad would be in an even worse state than it is now. He was only ever building for his own short term goals no matter how much it cost.