Can we stop blaming managers and start looking at the real problem?

[WensleyMU]

The one consistent all through these dire 7 years, the people who single handedly destroy any momentum we might get.

They fecked over Moyes in the window with a display of incompetence never seen at this club. They then went and signed players the next manager didn't want. They then looked to have got it right for once and then fecked over that manager by giving him nothing to build on our best period post Fergie.

We are constantly in a state of transition because managers are not being allowed to build a squad. They are getting a window or two at best and then the rug is swiftly pulled from beneath them.

Now Ole has been heavily restricted in the market and our squad looks laughably thin.

I am not defending each manager outright, but as a group. Moyes, van Gaal, Mourinho and now Ole have all been hamstrung by the owners and their lapdog. No manager, of any ability would succeed here, not any better than Jose did anyway because it's a case of one step forward, 3 steps back.

Sacking Ole just starts the process again. Nothing changes while they run the show.

 

[Raoul]

The one consistent all through these dire 7 years, the people who single handedly destroy any momentum we might get.

They fecked over Moyes in the window with a display of incompetence never seen at this club. They then went and signed players the next manager didn't want. They then looked to have hot it right for once and then fecked over that manager by giving him nothing to build on our best period post Fergie.

We are constantly in a state of transition because managers are not being allowed to build a squad. They are getting a window or two at best and then the rug is swiftly pulled from beneath them.

Now Ole has been heavily restricted in the market and our squad looks laughably thin.

I am not defending each manager outright, but as a group. Moyes, van Gaal, Mourinho and now Ole have all been hamstrung by the owners and their lapdog. No manager, of any ability would succeed here, not any better than Jose did anyway because it's a case of one step forward, 3 steps back.

Sacking Ole just starts the process again. Nothing changes while they run the show.

There's always a tipping point moment where a manager has to be sacked because nothing they do will be able to turn the ship around with the fans. Moyes, LvG, and Jose all had it and got shown the door. Ole isn't remotely there yet, but his time will come sooner than the others since he has no significant experience or results to show for himself.

 

[lewwoo]

Agree with op 100%. The one common denominator in all this is woody and the glazers. We could try every manager in football and nothing will change while these parasites run things.

 

[Sir Scott McToMinay]

Louis van Gaal was hamstrung by the board?
Seriously, the money he had spent on bang average players was absolutely inexcusable, he should’ve been sacked in Dec of 2015.

Mourinho was backed plenty too, up until his last window.

The Glazers fecked us over during the SAF era the most, we should’ve bought players like D.Silva and Aguero, instead of shite “value” signings.

 

[kouroux]

Can we stop looking for one answer when obviously there are several things that are so wrong at the club

 

[groovyalbert]

Louis van Gaal was hamstrung by the board?
Seriously, the money he had spent on bang average players was absolutely inexcusable, he should’ve been sacked in Dec of 2015.

Mourinho was backed plenty too, up until his last window.

The Glazers fecked us over during the SAF era the most, we should’ve bought players like D.Silva and Aguero, instead of shite “value” signings.

But this just reiterates OP - they had given him a new contract months before this, and then decided not to bother backing him. If that's not mad enough, they waited until December to then sack him!

There was no logic whatsoever. Same with LVG and the prolonging of his stay with us in his final season, to then sack him on the evening he'd actually done something decent. That was fecking low and totally not what this club had been/should be about.

The decision makers we have right now are classless, clueless and totally self serving. The sooner we start to put them truly under the spotlight, the better.

 

[GiddyUp]

Also the players. I've rarely seen so many players that look lost when asked to do the basics. I'm sick of this club from top to bottom and I advise every supporter to not spend one penny on this club. No likes or retweets. Let your disgust be known everywhere you can.
BUT, the team need our support in that 90 minutes, they make it so fecking hard though. We are so easy to win points against and that should fall on the players shoulders.

 

[AaronRedDevil]

Some of this is ole's fault but 70% of it is down to the team. There was plenty of chances to pass and score but they stayed greedy. It really doesn't matter one bit if he gets sacked tomorrow and get any free manger. It's the team that's the problem, we have no players, none, nada, nilche. United can barely put a solid 11 players on the pitch and the replacements are barebones. Only good thing is, we've almost got rid of all the deadwood and next summer we'll have little to sell and only end up buying reinforcements, maybe in January too. Till then the players need to go back to school and learn how to play as a team and not a team of individuals.

 

[Sir Scott McToMinay]

But this just reiterates OP - they had given him a new contract months before this, and then decided not to bother backing him. If that's not mad enough, they waited until December to then sack him!

There was no logic whatsoever. Same with LVG and the prolonging of his stay with us in his final season, to then sack him on the evening he'd actually done something decent. That was fecking low and totally not what this club had been/should be about.

The decision makers we have right now are classless, clueless and totally self serving. The sooner we start to put them truly under the spotlight, the better.

We’ve barely managed to beat C.Palace in a cup final and finished out of the top four, he was crap and should’ve been sacked months before that match.
Based on some flukey win we should’ve kept him the manager?
Big clubs don’t give a crap about some supposed class, winning trophies is far
more important than that.

 

[Jonty]

Can we stop looking for one answer when obviously there are several things that are so wrong at the club

Shite flows down, the OP is spot on and the signs were there under Fergies reign

 

[Amerifan]

Can we stop looking for one answer when obviously there are several things that are so wrong at the club

Reading this forum I think the only thing that has not been identified as wrong at our club is the tea trolley. Or did I miss that thread?

 

[kouroux]

Shite flows down, the OP is spot on and the signs were there under Fergies reign

Yeah but I don't see what the Glazers can do to improve our throw ins for instance or our set pieces in general. They're responsible for a lot things, the managing staff share the blame as well as the players.

 

[TrueRed79]

Agree with the OP. Woodward/Glazers are responsible for the mess we are in but you have to understand that Ole isn't up to the job. It's plain as day. I won't turn on him because it's not entirely his fault, but he is responsible for the awful run of results. If the next 16 games are like the last we will be in the relegation zone. Is that what you really want?

 

[groovyalbert]

We’ve barely managed to beat C.Palace in a cup final and finished out of the top four, he was crap and should’ve been sacked months before that match.
Based on some flukey win we should’ve kept him the manager?
Big clubs don’t give a crap about some supposed class, winning trophies is far
more important than that.

Not what I was saying, he should have gone way before then in December. But why then? Just let a legend enjoy his last bit of glory, and we needed the celebrations too.

As for not giving a crap about class in order to win trophies is rubbish. You can have one without the other. We had it throughout Fergie's reign and did alright then.

 

[Will Singh]

We are a business with a footballing background, we are a global brand and it would take decades of mediocre football to start showing major effects on revenue. Ole is a 'Yes Sir' ive said it from the start. Mourinho regardless of he's ego demanded players which we needed but the club didn't produce with Ole it's a simple "No we can't have him" and Ole says "Okay".

As fans we will never be able to do a protest they will have an effect due to the size of the fan base, yes locally we could all walk out of the stadium or stand outside with our banners but at the end of the day will it really effect what's important to the club which is revenue...No of cause not.

 

[WensleyMU]

@Sir Scott McToMinay

Van Gaal had players brought in he wasn't really wanting at the club. Players Woodward wanted, not the footballing guy meant to be running the footballing side.

This creates an environment devoid of trust.

 

[JG3001]

Louis van Gaal was hamstrung by the board?
Seriously, the money he had spent on bang average players was absolutely inexcusable, he should’ve been sacked in Dec of 2015.

Mourinho was backed plenty too, up until his last window.

The Glazers fecked us over during the SAF era the most, we should’ve bought players like D.Silva and Aguero, instead of shite “value” signings.

Last paragraph wholly agree. Lots of people talk about the vast amounts of money we’ve spent recently, and despite the moaning, we have seen the Glaziers invest. But I think they have literally paid the price for those years of under investment post Ronaldo sale.

A lot of time/money/trouble could have been saved if the board had given Ferguson more backing towards the end. I believe there is a stat which shows our net spend in those 5 years (09-13) was the equivalent of Stoke.

The fact that we brought Scholes out of retirement, all our best players were at or over 30, and the lack of youth development, should have been a big clue, irrespective of our league finishes.

 

[United_We_Stand]

We are the second biggest spenders in English football, LvG and especially Mourinho wasted hundreds of millions on mediocre players.
It's 100% on the managers.

 

[JK-27]

Louis van Gaal was hamstrung by the board?
Seriously, the money he had spent on bang average players was absolutely inexcusable, he should’ve been sacked in Dec of 2015.

Mourinho was backed plenty too, up until his last window.

The Glazers fecked us over during the SAF era the most, we should’ve bought players like D.Silva and Aguero, instead of shite “value” signings.

LVG had Di Maria thrust upon him by the board. LVG didn't want him and wanted others instead. Looked what happened there. We knew LVG was sacked before the club had the decency to tell him

Mourinho wanted Maguire and was told he wasn't better than what we had (yet 1 season later suddenly he is better than what we have).

The board have an historic legacy of not backing managers and acting without any clear plan, the above are just a few clear instances. And look where it's got us.

 

[Kostur]

Can we stop looking for one answer when obviously there are several things that are so wrong at the club

Yeah but I don't see what the Glazers can do to improve our throw ins for instance or our set pieces in general. They're responsible for a lot things, the managing staff share the blame as well as the players.

Amen.

 

[JPRouve]

Can we stop looking for one answer when obviously there are several things that are so wrong at the club

No we can't. It's a lot easier to have one super villain.

 

[WensleyMU]

We are the second biggest spenders in English football, LvG and especially Mourinho wasted hundreds of Millions on mediocre players.
It's 100% on the managers.

Our spend looks worse because we are constantly starting again.

 

[passing-wind]

Mourinho spent almost 400 million in his time here why is he on a list of being thrown under the bus from the hierarchy ? The problem is not entirely the owners, the problem is that the owners are giving the managers too much power, they are letting them dictate the future of the club with no proper planning and development which is needed when strategically planning.

That's why we was clueless under Moyes, then went to possession football under LVG, then when to sitting deep under Mourinho and now we are at the counter attacking phase under Ole. The only club I can think of who have had success with this ridiculous business model is Chelsea and that's solely because the calibres of manager they've attracted have validated their policy. It's why Kante can go from the best defensive midfielder in the league to an average Joe in a Sarri midfield. You can't always blame the players, look at the difference in directives they will have recieved from three completely different managers (Jose, LVG, Ole) and we wonder why none of our young players have developed.

It's not going to work until the structure of the club changes unless we hit the jackpot and get a revolutionary manager who manages to get the ethos and coaching side of things correct.

 

[The holy trinity 68]

The board are to blame in the last 2 seasons for a low net spend and Woodward’s incompetence.

But Ole still should be getting more out of what we have got. The teams form since the PSG win is unacceptable and Ole has to take some of the blame. He has no plan B and looks tactically inept. His sub choices are poor, along with relying on Rashford and Lingard too much. Ole has some blame in this.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

The managers aren't blameless.

There's a lot to blame for the problems at the club here.

It's not 1 sole factor.

 

[WensleyMU]

This isn't looking to pin the blame on an individual, but to stop blaming the individual as so many do (the manager) and look at the wider picture, in particular those who make the decisions.

They are the only thing that has remained constant since 2013. And the issues we see now we're apparent before, only masked by a literal god.

Of course the managers, players and even Fred the Red have to shoulder some blame, but when we keep replacing these factors yet seeing the same results, well, you have to look at the top.

 

[Sylar]

LVG had Di Maria thrust upon him by the board. LVG didn't want him and wanted others instead. Looked what happened there. We knew LVG was sacked before the club had the decency to tell him

Thrust upon him despite saying this:
https://www.skysports.com/football/...ngel-di-maria-as-he-hints-at-signing-a-winger

There is a constant in all of this failure since we last won the title. However the managers have to take some of the blame with some of the players they wanted, or wanted to get rid off / alienated etc.

 

[Sir Scott McToMinay]

LVG had Di Maria thrust upon him by the board. LVG didn't want him and wanted others instead. Looked what happened there. We knew LVG was sacked before the club had the decency to tell him

Mourinho wanted Maguire and was told he wasn't better than what we had (yet 1 season later suddenly he is better than what we have).

The board have an historic legacy of not backing managers and acting without any clear plan, the above are just a few clear instances. And look where it's got us.

Is there a proof that Van Gaal didn’t want Di Maria?
I remember him praising Di Maria during the 2014 WC and talking about the need for a pacy winger once he came here, Di Maria was one of the very best in the world.
Sorry we couldn’t give you Neymar Louis.

Either way, LvG was undoubtedly backed more than adequately.

 

[Amadaeus]

Nah we have hired shite managers. What are the post Sir Alex managers doing now? I m pretty sure most of them are jobless or are not impressing anyone with their managerial capabilities. We just can’t select the right manager because our board don’t have a clue about what constitutes beautiful football.

 

[Fluctuation0161]

The one consistent all through these dire 7 years, the people who single handedly destroy any momentum we might get.

They fecked over Moyes in the window with a display of incompetence never seen at this club. They then went and signed players the next manager didn't want. They then looked to have hot it right for once and then fecked over that manager by giving him nothing to build on our best period post Fergie.

We are constantly in a state of transition because managers are not being allowed to build a squad. They are getting a window or two at best and then the rug is swiftly pulled from beneath them.

Now Ole has been heavily restricted in the market and our squad looks laughably thin.

I am not defending each manager outright, but as a group. Moyes, van Gaal, Mourinho and now Ole have all been hamstrung by the owners and their lapdog. No manager, of any ability would succeed here, not any better than Jose did anyway because it's a case of one step forward, 3 steps back.

Sacking Ole just starts the process again. Nothing changes while they run the show.

Great point. Well made. I totally agree. The lack of any forward planning, succession planning or indeed any overall football strategy is a disgrace. This has caused many of our issues.

 

[JPRouve]

This isn't looking to pin the blame on an individual, but to stop blaming the individual as so many do (the manager) and look at the wider picture, in particular those who make the decisions.

They are the only thing that has remained constant since 2013. And the issues we see now we're apparent before, only masked by a literal god.

Of course the managers, players and even Fred the Red have to shoulder some blame, but when we keep replacing these factors yet seeing the same results, well, you have to look at the top.

But that's not really a new take, there are several threads separately blaming the managers, the players and the board, some threads also include everyone. Also your first sentence contradict that post because you wrote "the people who single handedly destroy any momentum", you are not looking at the wider picture but trying to pin all the blame on the board.

 

[C'est Moi Cantona]

There's always a tipping point moment where a manager has to be sacked because nothing they do will be able to turn the ship around with the fans. Moyes, LvG, and Jose all had it and got shown the door. Ole isn't remotely there yet, but his time will come sooner than the others since he has no significant experience or results to show for himselfr.

When is Ed's 'tipping point moment' coming?... When's it coming?

 

[Crashoutcassius]

If we sack ole and have continuity in the direction we are going then it won't matter if we sack him

But reality is that if we sack him then we start over. Next manager will want an attacking right back or a target man and will just undo two of our last pieces of business and that'll take a year.

Most fans on here are happy to give up on our strategy after 4 games saying we don't produce good players we shouldn't be counter attacking etc etc. See saw for ever and ever, just like why political parties cant get anythijg meaningful done... except instead if 4 years we only get 1-2 !

 

[El Zoido]

The one consistent all through these dire 7 years, the people who single handedly destroy any momentum we might get.

They fecked over Moyes in the window with a display of incompetence never seen at this club. They then went and signed players the next manager didn't want. They then looked to have hot it right for once and then fecked over that manager by giving him nothing to build on our best period post Fergie.

We are constantly in a state of transition because managers are not being allowed to build a squad. They are getting a window or two at best and then the rug is swiftly pulled from beneath them.

Now Ole has been heavily restricted in the market and our squad looks laughably thin.

I am not defending each manager outright, but as a group. Moyes, van Gaal, Mourinho and now Ole have all been hamstrung by the owners and their lapdog. No manager, of any ability would succeed here, not any better than Jose did anyway because it's a case of one step forward, 3 steps back.

Sacking Ole just starts the process again. Nothing changes while they run the show.

Spot on. But look at the knives out for Ole already. Knew it would be this way, this fan base deserves everything they get.

 

[Addled]

Serious question but who do people think the Glazers will appoint if Ed leaves or is sacked?
I don’t know who the person would be but I doubt very much it will be a “football” man. I think it will be another money man. Therefore I don’t see any chance of improving. I think Ed does see the big picture and will aspire to appoint a DOF (when he is given permission). Until then we must stagger on.
Does anyone have another oplnion?

 

[clarkydaz]

When is Ed's 'tipping point moment' coming?... When's it coming?

id say next summer is when the board will reveal how ugly the truth is, and they have nothing to hide behind anymore
We've lost;
Herrera
Fellaini
Sanchez
Lukaku
Smalling
Darmian

Ole will have had a rough year bleeding youngers in and will need to be backed to the hilt. Also consider we very likely wont be in CL again next season, so it will show what their ambition is

 

[fastwalker]

Ok so let me balance the argument a bit:

• between December and April Ole won 10 out of 13 Premier League games (achieving 32 out of a possible 36 points) with a side that was not even as good (certainly defensively) as the one he has now
• During the above-mentioned run Ole narrowed an 11 point gap to fourth spot put United in an unlikely Champions League qualification spot
• During the above-mentioned period there was no, I repeat no injection of cash, no new players were brought in during the January transfer window. In fact one player (Marouane Fellaini was let go)
  
• It was because of that incredible run of form that Ole was offered the United job on a permanent basis
• In the 2019/20 summer window United brought in probably the best defensive right back in the country in Aaron Wan-Bissaka and England's number one centre back in Harry Maguire. A promising Welsh winger Dan James was also brought in (four games into the new season Dan James is now United's top scorer)
• At the beginning of the season Ole himself stated that he is happy with his squad
• Ole has sanctioned the departure of Romelu Lukaku, Alexis Sanchez and Chris Smalling

Now is anyone on this thread seriously suggesting that the lack of investment is players caused United to lose to likely relegation candidates Crystal Palace at Old Trafford and draw against Southampton (who played with 10 men for 20 minutes) at St Mary's?

No-one is suggesting that United should not strengthen. No-one is implying that the Board are not culpable and should not be held responsible, but are we serious, seriously suggesting that Ole (the coach, in-game strategist, tactician, first team selector, squad rotator, motivator and team mentor) should not be held accountable for United's 5 out of 12 point haul?

I am not suggesting that Ole should be sacked. Elsewhere on this forum I have advocated that he be given a target of top four with a final judgement being made at the end of the season. I stand by that view because we need to see incremental improvement. But to suggest that Ole is some poor unfortunate victim of events far outside his control is utter nonsense and largely symptomatic of the managerial fanboy worship that now masquerades as club loyalty.

This has to stop for the good of the fans, for the good of the club and for the good of Ole.

 

[Casanova85]

The real problem is that the owners, during the last 4 years, have wasted a billion in failed signings for a has-been manager and an anti-football/anti-Utd manager, and now they don't wanna spend that much, even it it's clear we still need a second LB, a top midfielder, a RFW and a good CF.

 

[Will Singh]

The real problem is the managers who were capable of a job won't backed and the ones who were backed wasted a shit load of money. Regardless if Mourinho bought in older players for the short term success, so what? If we are back in the road of winning then who cares.

What your thinking it's the Glazers and Ed your wrong they are making a shit load of money and that's what it's all about for them.

I've been saying it for years, we are the new Arsenal. Finish top 4 and the money keeps rolling in and who cares if we win trophies or not as long as the money keeps coming and as a global brand nothing is gonna stop that money.

 

[Cathy Ferguson]

We have now reached a point where our problems and the gap to City and Pool are so big that it will take several years to catch up.

At least Ole has a plan and is executing, but I do not know if he is the best we can get and why our net spend was so low in the past two summers? Clearly the board was fed up with Mou, but if Ole thought that he could work wonders with Lingard, Perreira et al then he made a huge mistake and will be gone by Christmas. I just do not understand our transfer strategy unless we are skint.