Ok. Is it the tagging or the numbers that make it cancel culture, or something else?
Cancel Culture
- Thread starter Buchan
- Start date
I assume you're suggesting Disney firing Carano was cancel culture, or did I misunderstand you?
It was a result of it. In much the same way that Colin Kaepernick was cancelled for taking a knee during the national anthem. Here was a man trying to start a conversation about police killing black people in America in a civil way. He was cancelled for that. And he was cancelled hard. The story wasnt about black people and the systemic racism they face in America anymore, it was about a football player disrespecting the United States. And that he should be fired for it.
Not liking someone is fine. Moaning about them on line is fine. Calling them names, sending them death threats, rape threats and whatever else, and then rallying hundreds if not thousands, if not hundreds of thousands to do the same is cancel culture. Disney didnt give a shit about what Gina was posting until after 5/6 months of abuse that she got and finally snapped at with her nazi picture. We dont stand for black players being called racist bullshit on twitter when they have a bad game, why are standing for a woman getting death threats and rape threats because she doesnt put up her pronouns on twitter? You can think shes a moron. You can think shes whatever you want. But does she deserve that? And when she calls it out by liking the actions of those people to how Germans treated their Jewish neighbours, does she really deserve to be blamed for the whole mess and fired?
Cancel culture isn't a thing and people arguing otherwise need to understand that the term cancel culture is pure marketing from one side of the political spectrum, who is trying to make you believe that there is a new cultural phenomon going on where the liberals are cancelling people they disagree with.
Now if people want to talk about the existence of the concepts of consequence and blackballing then yes, both of these things exists and have existed for as long as humanity exists. And Kaepernick was blackballed, that's literally what happened to him and we don't need to make up a new term.
Now if people want to talk about the existence of the concepts of consequence and blackballing then yes, both of these things exists and have existed for as long as humanity exists. And Kaepernick was blackballed, that's literally what happened to him and we don't need to make up a new term.
I think it’d be more helpful if ‘cancel culture’ was simply renamed ‘consequence culture’ to explain actually what is going on.
i think within that mcdonalds madness, there was an actual point about consumption and culture replacing politics, and about how liberalism, with its focus on the individual, is more horrified by a mass boycott than a quiet firing by a boss. but i'm too lazy to make those points.
It would be a much better term, but 99% of the people that go on about cancel culture wouldn't like that because it would mean having to acknowledge that they did something wrong rather than admit responsibility, which is why they invented the term to begin with.
It all depends on the context and whether it was said with any malicious intent and who takes offense.
He did...
And get offline, quit whinin', this is just a rhyme, bitch
Last edited:
The thing is politics are and have always been fueled by culture and social norms. You can't separate them and it would be a poor point to say that culture has replaced politics, now we may have to think about the power of consumerism and how things have turned, for decades capitalists ideologists brainwashed the mass into thinking that it needed to consum, now the mass understand that they hold some of the cards and can use it against whoever they want when money is part of the equation because they are the ones consuming or not...
Since when has brigade been a verb?
Exactly they all have skeletons in their closets.
I think a few distinctions need to be made, between a private business making a decision regarding an employee and twitter mobs.
I assume both Kaepernick and Carano were aware their actions would have consequences, as they did. If they weren't, then they are just naive or were ill-advised. I don't think either case is cancel culture, it's two businesses making a decision they thought (rightly or wrongly so) was good for their business. Are they the same? I don't think so and with time everyone clearly sees the difference. Kaepernick, years later is being applauded for what he did and most people recognize it was a bad and unfair move on the part of the NFL. I don't think in 5 or 6 years anyone will be looking at Carano as some sort of leader for free speech or something like that. She said offensive stuff and paid the price. Kaepernick stood up for something most consider fair and paid for it, unfairly in my opinion. Others will think differently.
Neither the NFL nor Disney give two shits about police violence or free speech, they act according to what they perceive to be the public opinion amongst those who pay for their products. So their actions will be determined by, ultimately, the community. And in time, unfair things will self-correct. Kaepernick is now widely applauded with even the NFL admitting their mistake. Will Carano be back and forgiven? It will mostly depend on her, although early signs show she preferred the rabbit hole. If she returns, it will be because the community has widely forgiven her.
What the hell am I trying to say? These actions are determined by the community and what the community accepts as fair or unfair at any given time. If you say stuff or do stuff most people in the community regard as negative, you will pay a price, not because you're being canceled but because you have a weak product in the marketplace of ideas. This has happened since forever, it's nothing new. It's not a conspiracy, it's not an ideology trying to destroy you, it's a result of societal evolution and some people failing to adapt. Society doesn't all move at the same pace, so sometimes you will have cases like Kaepernick and it's unfortunate but inevitable. As society moves in a certain direction, these people will be vindicated and celebrated or will fall into obscurity.
Regarding twitter mobs, we have two different thing.
Hashtags wanting to boycott someone and pressuring a person or an entity are perfectly fine. One million people going to the amazon twitter spamming them with "providing better working conditions or I'll never buy from you again is fine", a million people spamming Manchin's twitter telling him to vote for whatever in the senate or they'll kick him out of office is fine, a million people spamming Downey Jr's twitter with "if you keep defending Mel Gibson I'll never watch one your films again" is fine. It's not cancel culture, it's the community applying pressure on people and organizations so that something they believe needs to change actually changes.
Now a million people twitting "I know where you live" or "I'll do this and that to you", that's obviously unacceptable. Is it cancel culture? No, because ultimately that person will have their voice heard on other platforms depending on if those platforms will take something from those people (wether it's profit or credibility). People who are dicks online and threat people are always in the minority, sometimes it'll seem they are the majority because they are very vocal but organizations will not make decisions based on this minority, they can see where the majority of the community is going and they will follow (sometimes the silent majority and the dickhead minority want the same thing but companies will decide based ont he majority always). So if what you're saying if valuable to the community, it doesn't matter how many threats you get online, someone will give you a platform for what you're saying or doing if there is a space in the community for that. It's not a coincidence that people who cry about being cancelled invariably find different gigs at different places, so they're not really cancelled, are they?
Anyway I've written too much, sorry about that.
As to be more accurate, consequence of not compiling to our defined way of thinking, culture, not quite as catchy...
Cancel culture as a term has now been politically weaponized so any use of it comes preloaded.
However there is a culture, I care not for the naming rights or semantics, of malicious online harassment and bullying that is rife across the net and social media, and you would be disengenuous to proclaim that only those with problematic ideas suffer from it or perpetuate it.
However there is a culture, I care not for the naming rights or semantics, of malicious online harassment and bullying that is rife across the net and social media, and you would be disengenuous to proclaim that only those with problematic ideas suffer from it or perpetuate it.
There's so much difference between twitter going after a celebrity. To going after a company. To a publisher dropping a book deal. To a campus banning someone from giving a talk. To a private individual being fired because their employer caves to a hysterical twitter mob. No time for anyone who tries to lump all that under one umbrella in their arguments to transparently remove all nuance.
Some of it is totally justified. Some of it has been around for decades. Some of it is just vacuous corporate virtue signalling. Some of it tramples over employee rights. Some of it is malicious bullying wearing the guise of a moral crusade.
Some of it is totally justified. Some of it has been around for decades. Some of it is just vacuous corporate virtue signalling. Some of it tramples over employee rights. Some of it is malicious bullying wearing the guise of a moral crusade.
That's not cancel culture, what the feck are you talking about
But "cancel culture" doesnt exist...
That's a bunch of individuals being rude on the internet.
More or less agree with this.
If she wasn't too big a name to be cancelled she might though. But usually deranged twitter mobs don't pile up on ordinary people in the first place or perhaps i'm mistaken.That's not cancel culture, what the feck are you talking about
That's a bunch of individuals being rude on the internet.
Surely cancel culture refers specifically to people being hauled over the coals via social media? Which has to be a new phenomenon, as social media didn’t exist 15 years ago. Hence the need for a new term.
I thought how Andrew Doyle defined it quite well in this interview whatever you think of him.
No need to apologise for writing too much. Its a conversation, if we could boil it down to one or two lines of a quick sentence it wouldnt be worth much.
I agree with you on the point that people have always found themselves on the outs when society doesnt agree with them. Theres far too many examples of it, but we both agree on it so need for them. Where we seem to be differing is that Iam seeing that weaponized on twitter. So while people have often found themselves on the business end of a societal hissy fit, society has also shown to shrug it off and move on. Michael Jackson had kids sleeping in his bed. Society hated him for it. David Bowie had sex with 13 year old groupies, everyone still loves him and has not a bad word to say. society is a weird animal, and picks and chooses its battles in a weird way too. But with the advent of the internet you are seeing people taking up the mantle to try and influence society. You made the point that Gina Carano said offensive stuff. And I would ask what did she say? Because everything Ive seen that she posted was pretty tame. And what wasnt is what will be in my next point. Which Im going to place into a separate paragraph to spare your eyes a bit of strain.
Context and nuance. Victims of this new world of social media and on line arguments. What you meant to say doesnt matter. Only what someone else can twist into what you said. Gina Carano got 6 months worth of abuse. Death threats, rape threats blah blah blah. She endured this while trying to fight it, which in itself was kinda dumb as she was never winning that battle. The post that got her fired was speaking about how the nazis got the neighbours of Jews to beat them in the street. To create a normalised world where treating a jew in horrific ways was acceptable. But when she was then accused of saying was that she was equating republicans to jews in nazi Germany. Which she wasnt. You can say that she was wrong, you can even say that society wasnt ready to hear what she had to say like with Colin. But the tactics used are the same. Twist what was actually said to paint a false narrative and then use that narrative to strong arm employers. The employers themselves arent the issue. Like you said, they are reacting to what is good for business. It would be nice if they had a bit more back bone, but thats for another topic.
So one hand you have a history of people like Mel Gibson who was ostracized before it was cool and you then you have Gina. Mel was guilty of what he did, whether you accept his apology and reasoning behind what he did is up to each of us. But Gina, well all she did was say no to the twitter mob. And they came after her for it. And you can say that she should just have walked away. But to that I would ask if you would give the same advice to Rashford when he gets racist abuse on twitter? Some people dont want to back down from bullies. And thats what twitter is. A bunch of bullies making shit up and spreading it around about people they dont like. And then when the person refuses to back down they get death threats etc.
After the last of us part 2 came out, Laura Bailey got a lot of death threats and rape threats because she voiced a character in a game some people didnt like. Why are we excusing death threats and rape threats against Gina, but defending Laura? Should we, as a society not be standing up for both? Are we really at a place where having a shitty opinion makes it ok to threaten to rape and kill peoples? I saw that footballer thing that they did last week, I think its was last week. And it was footballers reading out the tweets that they had been sent. One of them really stood out to me. "I know where your kids go to school.". That is twitter. That kind of horrible, nasty shit trying to bully people into doing stuff. Maybe its quitting, maybe its getting someone fired. But that kind of thing, should never ever be accepted. And yet here we are. Where we see football players take a knee every week to highlight that black people are human beings follow 90 minutes later by twitter posts calling them racist names because they had a bad game.
Twitter is a cesspool. And one of its tools is cancelling people they dont like. If you made it this far, thanks for reading. We can now just agree to disagree and enjoy the rest of our nights. Im off to watch Coming 2 America with some dinner. You have a good one, my friend.
Thats cancel culture, mate. That is what people are talking about when they talk about cancel culture.That's not cancel culture, what the feck are you talking about
That's a bunch of individuals being rude on the internet.
No idea, its a reddit thing. Im trying to be cool like the kids are.
It's not a new phenomenon. The medium is new but the act itself isn't, the difference is that people used to go in the streets for example The Last Temptation led to protest and even burned theaters globally. Without getting into the determination of who is right or wrong, the new phenomenon is that media personalities, artists and politicians thought that the internet would shield them from the mob that in the past would have gone in front of movie/TV studios, political party HQs or radio stations but the mob don't need to move anymore they have access to their targets via social media.
Pre internet world existed in the streets. None of what we are seeing is new outside of the medium, now one important thing that needs to be said, the medium means that instead of having dozens or maybe hundreds of people that have access to you, nowadays you easily have thousands people with direct access to what you say and can communicate with you or at you, on Twitter those figures can be significantly larger if you are retweeted by a major content creator, in a few seconds hundreds of millions of people will know what you said and will have an opinion that they can share but how many actually share it? What proportion fit with this idea of cancel culture? 0.1% 0.01%?
The medium is different. And it’s different in fundamental, important ways. Sounds like a novel enough phenomenon to have a name of its own IMO.
The scale is different but not phenomenon. It's a bit like saying that waves are a new concept when you compare their size in a lake and in an ocean. People seem to not realize that they are not speaking in their living room when they tweet something.
Cancel culture is trying to “cancel” someone or something by digging up things from a very long time ago & using it against them now. Gina Carano got sacked because she made ridiculous comments comparing being a conservative in America to being a Jew in Nazi Germany. She was not sacked or punished in anyway for her numerous comments on trans people.
But "cancel culture" doesnt exist...
I'm with you on this. The ease with which outrage can be vented on the internet and pressure can be applied on companies/institutions has led to a huge ramp up of such activity to the point where it is a fundamentally different phenomenon.
If 30 years ago Carano gave her views in a magazine interview, do you think there would be people on the streets to protest them? No, no one would give a feck because if you protest on the streets for every C-list actor's views, you would be doing nothing but that for the rest of your whole life. She would fly completely under the radar and there would be no consequences to her views.
A hurricane is a different phenomenon to a breeze, yet they are both just wind blowing.
That's your definition of it but not anyone else's.
Wikipedia: Cancel Culture
The internet does record everything and make it easily searchable meaning it allows people to also leverage statements made a long time ago. But digging out old statements isn't a prerequisite for the definition of cancel culture.
So if you go on twitter tonight & compare being a conservative in Britain now to being Jewish in Nazi Germany, and you lose your job for it, have you been “cancelled” or have you just been sacked for saying something stupid & incredibly offensive?
Gina Carano was sacked by one job, she hasn’t been cancelled or black listed. She’ll get plenty of work.
no she didn’t, she compared the actions of twitter users to nazis. Like I said in a previous post, context and nuance are ignored so as to paint some one in whatever light they like. Cancel culture is weaponised ostracism. People love to tear down their heroes. So it never takes much to get the ball rolling.
Who told you that you that these two are mutually exclusive?
I like Gina Carano & have done since her days in Strikeforce/EliteXC, I don’t agree with her losing her job but what she said was fecking stupid. She’s a Hollywood actress now why is she even engaging with twitter mobs about shit like transgender issues. Whoever is advising her is doing a horrible job.
Actually they aren't different phenomenons. Which ironically is a good example of why the same phenomenon could be given different names depending on intensity and duration which would be a good starting point to demonstrate why I may be wrong on the different names point.
Cancel culture is really really real. If you don't believe me answer me this: did this man's songs get worse after 1997?
No. Yet his career was destroyed. He is almost never played on radio anymore. He can't get a job gigging. He lost most of his royalty income. He faced endless hateful attacks and ridicule. He was hounded out of his job and then the country. He was Cancelled. He was Cancelled worse than anyone since Jesus.
He is a free man, he served his time and he has still lost everything to Cancel Culture.
This is your crusade. He is on your team. Stand up for him please.
No. Yet his career was destroyed. He is almost never played on radio anymore. He can't get a job gigging. He lost most of his royalty income. He faced endless hateful attacks and ridicule. He was hounded out of his job and then the country. He was Cancelled. He was Cancelled worse than anyone since Jesus.
He is a free man, he served his time and he has still lost everything to Cancel Culture.
This is your crusade. He is on your team. Stand up for him please.
Errm, unironically no. They are very different phenomena. Perhaps hurricane and cyclone, but hurricane and breeze... no.
None of the above things apply to a breeze. It's not rotating, it's not low pressure, it produces no thunderstorms, it doesn't separate air masses of different densities and it creates a front.
This is however a great example of how when something get amplified to a huge level, it becomes so vastly different in so many aspects from it's original form, that it does indeed get classified as a new phenomenon altogether.
Actually not an example of cancel culture.Cancel culture is really really real. If you don't believe me answer me this: did this man's songs get worse after 1997?
No. Yet his career was destroyed. He is almost never played on radio anymore. He can't get a job gigging. He lost most of his royalty income. He faced endless hateful attacks and ridicule. He was hounded out of his job and then the country. He was Cancelled. He was Cancelled worse than anyone since Jesus.
He is a free man, he served his time and he has still lost everything to Cancel Culture.
This is your crusade. He is on your team. Stand up for him please.
Actually Pneuma is the fundamental substance from which everything is built. Air holds us together. This was discovered over two and a half thousand years ago.
Of course
I can't believe you are actual staff here....the guy is a convicted pedo, a dangerous individual, and he is your example, ffsCancel culture is really really real. If you don't believe me answer me this: did this man's songs get worse after 1997?
No. Yet his career was destroyed. He is almost never played on radio anymore. He can't get a job gigging. He lost most of his royalty income. He faced endless hateful attacks and ridicule. He was hounded out of his job and then the country. He was Cancelled. He was Cancelled worse than anyone since Jesus.
He is a free man, he served his time and he has still lost everything to Cancel Culture.
This is your crusade. He is on your team. Stand up for him please.
