Scholes was our best midfielder.
No. of points dropped in the league games started -
Carrick : 13 ( 4D + 3L) - 24 starts
Against which teams?
Carrick or Alonso
- Thread starter Fergies Formula
- Start date
Against which teams?
Reading, Portsmouth, City, Bolton, Middlesborough, Blackburn and Chelsea.
Compared to:
Anderson
Arsenal, Chelsea and City.
Scholes
Reading, Portsmouth, City, Spurs, City, Middlesborough and Blackburn.
Anderson
Arsenal, Chelsea and City.
Scholes
Reading, Portsmouth, City, Spurs, City, Middlesborough and Blackburn.
I think our media over rate our own players, but our fans generally under rate them.
Seeing a player perform every week in contrast to hearing about player x from Barcelona or Bayern always adds a certain attraction to the lesser seen player, so it seems.
In this example, I can't see any reason to judge that Alonso is a better player than Carrick, apart from the fact that he is foreign.
Carrick plays consistently well for the European Champions and has won important honours in the last couple of years of his career, yet is rated as an inferior player to someone who has been fairly inconsistent for the last couple of seasons, to the point where his club wanted to offload him.
Using this metric you've disproved your own point as Scholes didn't drop 11 points but 16 (you've got the maths wrong and added 5 instead of 10 from the 5 draws). So we actually dropped more points in total with Scholes starting than with Carrick even despite Carrick starting more games.
Scholes was our best midfielder.
No. of points dropped in the league games started -
Carrick : 13 ( 4D + 3L) - 24 starts
Scholes: 11 ( 5D + 2L) - 22 starts
Anderson: 7 ( 1D + 2L) - 16 starts
Scholes also won points and games for us with goals - Pompey, Barca etc. and also setup vital goals like against Roma. Carrick didn't score any goal or setup one of consequence.
Carrick lost more points per game started compared to Scholes, neither did he have any game changing moments (except conceding penalty against Chelsea and almost losing us the league).
Dippersripper is right, Carrick was our best midfielder last year, he rocked. And he's not in the team to provide game changing moments he's there for his awesome defensive play, retaining possession and getting the ball to the players who will change the game in positions where they will be able to do this, something we've badly missed in certain games this year.
I reckon I'm going to ask for a shirt with Carrick on the back for christmas.
Is Carrick a better player than Ronaldinho, Deco or Ballack too ?
Fecked up the math
But the fact that we dropped more points in the games Carrick started still holds though (it's 17 vs 16 instead of the 13 vs 11 posted earlier)
I fecked up too!Fecked up the math
But the fact that we dropped more points in the games Carrick started still holds though.
I saw you'd made the mistake for Scholes but didn't realise until just now you'd done the same thing for Carrick so he actually dropped 17 points and now we're both wrong. Oh well.
Solari, Butt and Edmilson are not and never were average footballers!
From what I can recall the Butt-Keane combo did much better than Butt-Scholes or Keane-Scholes in the treble year.
Allow me to give you a helping hand. Here are our top ten (occasionally eleven) point earners in a) the Premier League and b) all competitions. The number on a player's right indicates the percentage of available points we won in the games the player started. Players with an utterly insignificant number of starts are duly ignored. (Yes, cup competitions are included where appropriate even though you don't actually get points for winning or drawing them.)
PREMIER LEAGUE
1 Anderson 83,3
2 Rooney 82,7
3 Ronaldo 80,6
4 Evra 78,8
5 Vidic 77,1
6 Carrick 76,4
7 Tevez 76,3
8 Scholes 75,8
9 Van der Sar 74,7
10 Ferdinand 74,3
ALL COMPETITIONS
1 Anderson 82,7
2 Ronaldo 80,0
3 Carrick 79,8
4 Rooney 78,9
5 Evra 78,7
6 Vidic 78,0
7 Ferdinand 76,0
8 Van der Sar 76,0
9 Tevez 75,2
10 Brown 74,5
11 Scholes 72,2
Make of this what you will, unless it's stupid.
PREMIER LEAGUE
1 Anderson 83,3
2 Rooney 82,7
3 Ronaldo 80,6
4 Evra 78,8
5 Vidic 77,1
6 Carrick 76,4
7 Tevez 76,3
8 Scholes 75,8
9 Van der Sar 74,7
10 Ferdinand 74,3
ALL COMPETITIONS
1 Anderson 82,7
2 Ronaldo 80,0
3 Carrick 79,8
4 Rooney 78,9
5 Evra 78,7
6 Vidic 78,0
7 Ferdinand 76,0
8 Van der Sar 76,0
9 Tevez 75,2
10 Brown 74,5
11 Scholes 72,2
Make of this what you will, unless it's stupid.
What it tells you is that Anderson made a lot of starts in the easier games when other players were rested.
So Vidic >>> Rio ??
That's probably not stupid. I'll allow it. He did start away at Chelsea, Liverpool, Arsenal and Roma (QF), though, but a vast majority of his starts were at OT, where we were relatively untouchable last season.
Anderson played in his fair share of top games last year, actually.
Chelsea away, Arsenal in the league, Arsenal in the FA Cup, Liverpool home and away, etc...
Of the 5 games there, we won 3 of them, drew one, and lost one (I think!).
What was your point again?
He started some of our toughest fixtures -
Liverpool home and away
Chelsea away
Arsenal away and home (cup)
Roma home and away
Lyon home and away
City home
Spurs away
Villa away
Everton home
Blackburn home
Bolton away
On second thought, it might have been slightly stupid. Or wrong.
Even this season, 3 of Anderson's 4 league starts came away at Pompey, away at Liverpool and away at Blackburn. In the CL, he started against Celtic but not Aalborg.
He generally starts in our toughest fixtures.
He generally starts in our toughest fixtures.
stats.
Carrick's clearly a better player, all things considered. Wish he had a bit more fight in him which Alonso has, but he's a superior player, without question.
The England point is a bit moot when you consider the class of idiots who've been in charge of England over the last while.
Carrick's clearly a better player, all things considered. Wish he had a bit more fight in him which Alonso has, but he's a superior player, without question.
The England point is a bit moot when you consider the class of idiots who've been in charge of England over the last while.
Alonso, obviously
No he wasn't. Maybe in 06/07, but not last season.
Scholes was our best midfielder.
It has become quite obvious over the last two seasons that Scholes is very inconsistent when he plays without Carrick. If the opposition stand off him a bit and give him some time and space he's still fantastic. But if the opposition harry him with numbers every time he gets the ball he seriously struggles.
When the two of them play together Scholes is generally the player who looks better. But the real difference is when one of them is missing and the remaining player has to partner someone else. Carrick has very much out-performed Scholes in that department.
Carrick for midfield, Alonso for waiting tables
Anderson's presence speaks for itself, he should start most games for United, even if it means playing a 4-3-3
Amusing. Carrick's clearly not a better player, all things considered.
Who gives a feck, I mean really?
Carricks ours, and he has helped up win back to back Prems and the Champs league.
He'll do for me.
Carricks ours, and he has helped up win back to back Prems and the Champs league.
He'll do for me.
People on here tend to overrate Carrick's actual contribution. He wasn't the main reason for us winning the title in 2007 - there were many changes in 2006 beside him. For starters Ronaldo reached a peak of his form, Vidic's and Evra's arrivals helped our defense immensely while Scholes pulled triggers in midfield. It's not like Carrick converted us from a good team to a great team on his own.
I'd rather Carrick.
Technical ability? Probably Alonso.
I don't doubt Alonso is a great player, noted by the fact Arsene Wenger didn't rule out going for him should Barry go to Liverpool. But then again, his form over the last two years has been awful, that he's gained some form is great for him. If he can continue it for the next 12-18 months then I might consider that Alonso would be first choice at Manchester United. Right now, he wouldn't be.
Technical ability? Probably Alonso.
I don't doubt Alonso is a great player, noted by the fact Arsene Wenger didn't rule out going for him should Barry go to Liverpool. But then again, his form over the last two years has been awful, that he's gained some form is great for him. If he can continue it for the next 12-18 months then I might consider that Alonso would be first choice at Manchester United. Right now, he wouldn't be.
The defence needs someone to protect it, Scholes would never have played as well in the past two seasons without Carrick to defend for him and prevent teams from doubling up on the one passer in the midfield, Ronaldo would not have had as good a season without the service the midfield provided
That's nonsense. It isn't going overboard to say he's been an important signing, or that he's been our best midfielder for long passages of time. I haven't seen too many people fawning over him excessively.
If anything, you are the one making blowing things out of proportion by trying to make out like people have said he is the sole reason for us winning trophies, when no one has done that.
He played at a time when clowns like Keith Curle were being selected. Bruce is without question the best player I've seen never to be capped.
Bang on. Carrick was our best midfielder last season, comfortably.
Maybe this season but he only played a handful last year
edited itCarrick
plus he's more consistent
plus he's more consistent
Thought it was that, though with some of the praise slightly overexaggerated praise Fletcher is getting recently anything is possible on here.lol, I clicked on that link thinking that it would probably be some boring stats that somebody had posted at some stage. Was quite surprised to see my name come up.