Is the coup by the Spanish government over throwing the Catalan one?
Catalonia referendum| Catalonia declares independence from Spain
- Thread starter barros
- Start date
Starting to get nasty now 
I have also seen elder people situated in the first line to get the hits.This has been promoted for the government. The unity of Spain is non negociable.
I understand that people want to vote. Right now is a question of pride but I also understand the defenselessness of many catalans against all this.
Passive resistance is a very misleading concept.
Hopefully tomorrow the responsibles will be arrested to start talking about the big fracture that they have provoked.
One is a breach of the country's constitution, the other was not.
Man, Rajoy should have used his brain though. This referendum is illegal, everyone knows it, but there was no need to act in this way, imo.
The elder people were the first, because they have more balls and ovaries that you and me combined. They have the same right to fight and they will sacrifice more than anyone because they say ALL THE SAME, is not for me but for my kids and grandkids. And if they were some the first is because they choose and they are adults enough to show their big balls.
The unity of spain not negociable is the EXACT TALK of the francoist dictatorship. Pride? is not pride, if we would have pride we would fight back, is a matter of decide our future. Resistance is never misleading, resistance is what you have to do when your rights are stomped
This will continue the whole day and if the government think that we will put our heads down and we will stay at home is that they didn´t learnt anything of the last 7 years. Something that is very possible because they only created more and more independentist in their stupidity
What would you do? Allow them to vote, without a campaign of no, against the rules of their own statute and their parliament, and then declare independence with any %? I think things would be worse in that scenario.
At the moment they have closed websites and get the ballots. Those responsible continue to vote and challenge the law, a month ago.
Then do a campaing of no, is your choice. What statute? they forbid most of it. We said that we could negociate over and over the question, the %, any conditions and they said no. What we have to do: " oh ok, I am going home now, eveything allright"
Censorship and repression is what is happening
There is no need to beat people up. You only play in Catalunya's hands.
I wonder how many countries would allow this. What would happen if tomorrow the government of California, or Saxony, or Britain decides to make a referendum against their government.
Puigdemont has been required several times to stop all this, dialogue has been offered. Even Guindos offered a fiscal pact and more competences, but you only want one thing.
Th thing is that if in any normal country, millions of people goes to thee street every year, they will respond with a referendum. Like in UK, Quebec, Sweden....and they accepted the results.
dialogue NEVER was offered. Saying we can dialogue in the press it doesn´t mean that you are going to actually do it. We required which kind of referendum do you want? None!. Ok, then none? yeah right
Guindos offered to SPEAK about it 4 days ago, yes, as knowing that we would not stop that right now after all the scalation. Do you think we are stupid: "Oh, Mkay, we stop everything to go to speak in a table to hear...oh in reality I will give you 10 pennies".
Is not about money anymore, is much more.
Remember the date, there is no going back from this regardless of the voting outcome - damage is done and Spain will never be the same
Pep said no dialogue was offered.
Guindos is part of the government. What else you want?I bet that with a good model "a la vasca" you would stop all this.
Exactly. I can't understand how Carvajal and other people think that this ends tomorrow. That will only escalate. 3rd of october, global strike in whole catalunya. Just for starters
Does catalan has enough to sustain themselves if they're independent? Government stucture, income, police force, military, penal code, infrastructure, etc?
Many countries / states only thinks about pride / culture / history etc but fail short of working a workable solution once they got their independence.
Many countries / states only thinks about pride / culture / history etc but fail short of working a workable solution once they got their independence.
That's a good question and it's interesting that a year ago, France reintroduced the name Occitania despite the fact that they know that Catalunya and Occitania are close and that local politicians have been dreaming of an alliance between the two.
Now, France will never allow it, never.
Since they've slowly been losing their grip on power, this could actually also work in Rajoy's favour. PP still have their base, and they could pull voters back in if they can instill a renewed sense of "Spanish pride." That, or I could just be a foreigner completely misreading the situation.
This won´t end tomorrow. Tomorrow they should arrest all the catalan government and Rajoy should resign. The social fracture in Cataluña, that you have provoked will last many years (mainly because you use kids with independentist flags, teaching them that Spain is the enemy)
I read some polls in these days and PP was not doing well. Rajoy could have pulled it out for a political reason.
I have been independentist all my life and not for economic reasons. And is not what I want, is what we want. And several people have several reasons, and the attitud of the spanish government, first ignoring, then laughing and then attacking is what it fed up people. People that they don´t even speak catalan. If independentism was around 45-55% 20 days ago, I guarantee that now is 55-65%. And it will conituosly grow.
Felipe Gonzalez said it once, in a negotation say always no, always no till the last moment when there is no other solution and then offer peanuts. That's what Guindos try it, but of course we don´t buy it. After 7 years, and after the Guardia Civil entered and repressed and funnily broke the law, they offered that? Is like I will spit on you, rape you but if you don´t say anything to the police and going to buy you a nice dress
you are reading very well all the situation Fener
Most industry % in spain, most tourism % in spain, 56% of the startup investment, 1/3 of the spanish exports, +20% of GDP of Spain...and we are 6% of the territory and 15% of population. Economically speaking we undoubtly can
Personally I think all this will go against independentism. The brainwashing, the important characters of Catalan society treated as fascists and the "unionist" threatened. There are even lists to point who doesn´t want to vote. Good way to make differences among neighbors.
If they would have the whole region with demonstrations? they would eventually. But yeah, France had been even more centrallistic than Spain, but at least the government is way more competent than the spaniard, even with Holland
With that situation in catalonia and with the National Pride restored thanks to the Guardia Civil, they would want with a big majority is what their voters like
It will work very well for Rajoy, PP is residual in catalonia nowadays and it will reinforce the right base of a strong spain
Yes, Catalanists are very expansionist, something similar to the basques with Euskal Herria. Here people always say "do you imagine this in France?", "do you imagine boos to the anthem in France?"
Of course now. That's the reason why he behaved in this way. Only to get more votes.
The old "brainwashing" argument for the ones that they don´t think like you. We could say the same of the unionist. List of people? BS, but big BS
Errrr, from almost 80 years ago probably during the Civil war? from a party that does not even exist? we could find similars from the WW2 from america, from Russia, from UK, from France
You are manipulating big time
It would make sense. Erdoğan has done many controversial things in Turkey that, while possessing the potential to pave the way for his downfall, have ultimately worked in his favour. Rajoy doesn't have the force of personality like he does, but PP will always have their strongholds and ability to prey on the fears of the lefty utopia that Podemos want to bring. I think the Catalan situation will further make people reconsider just how much Podemos themselves would want to change the country.
That's what you extrapolated from that? Quite the escalation.
There is a thread for kurdistan. COmparisons ok but going in depth...please guys
there is an informative note to inform about who doesn´t want to participate. Something similar to what happened to the politicians of Lleida, pointed as traitors
Tell me what is wrong in brushing the corrupt polititians (Catalan politicians Mas and Pujol included there in the picture) and the king of spain?this is more modern
I fully suport it who doesn´t. Thanks to give us the moral argument in this