Catalonia referendum| Catalonia declares independence from Spain

[4bars]

@carvajal @4bars

Not sure if legit.

The current escalation is the result of two different nationalistic identities clashing. Catalonia should have gotten a fair and free referendum. This one is hardly representative. Rajoy had the power to change course and is the main culprit for this mess. That doesn't make the Catalan groups who pushed this innocent so. At least parts of them are radicals who found a way to present themselves as moderates/victims, due to the pressure from Madrid.

After a bit of browsing the text is maniuplated, of course the list is that:

1) Envia un Whastapp a tots els teus contactes preguntant-los si ja saben on han d’anar a votar. Si no ho saben, comparteix-los l’enllaç del web on poden trobar-ho.

2) Truca als pares, avis i tiets, ajuda’ls a localitzar el seu col·legi electoral i assegura’t que podran desplaçar-s’hi.

3) Descarrega't aquest cartell i afegeix-hi el col·legi electoral que t'ha tocat, tot indicant-ne l'adreça. Imprimeix-ne diverses còpies, deixa'n a les bústies dels teus veïns i penja'n a la porteria i a l'ascensor. [+] CLICA PER DESCARREGAR CARTELL

4) Pensa amb totes les persones que creus que no aniran a votar per algun d’aquests motius: tenen por, dubtes, o no són independentistes.

5) Parla-hi: depèn de tu que també hi siguin

6) Dissabte recorda a tothom que l'endemà és el gran dia i que, sobretot, cal anar a votar d’hora.

7) Diumenge vota ben d’hora de bon matí, fes-te una foto votant i comparteix-la amb tothom a les xarxes socials.



The point 5 it does not say "make a list" it says, "think of that people that you think they will not go to vote. And the point 6 said. "Speak with them, is in your hands to change their mind to go vote (being yes or no)".

Becuase that manifesto is about that is EVERYBODYS hands to make the referendum a success making people go to vote. Because the most people that goes to vote, the more legitimization

AGAIN, like Carvajal said, too much manipulation.


As Carvajal said as well, thanks to find that product of manipulation, once more

 

[4bars]

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Nicccceeeeee

 

[carvajal]

@4bars the ballot boxes are already filled with votes? Surely there are some NO to make it more credible.

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[Santi_Mesut_Alexis_87]

Nicccceeeeee

Cool. Franco would be proud of it. Just hope we are not seeing a rise in catalan terrorism like ETA now.

 

[4bars]

http://www.abc.es/espana/20140210/abci-como-cataluna-volvio-rica-201402100444.html

ABC, the francoist newspaper I can put you independentist media if you want

Please Carvajal, use less biaised media

 

[carvajal]

After a bit of browsing the text is maniuplated, of course the list is that:

1) Envia un Whastapp a tots els teus contactes preguntant-los si ja saben on han d’anar a votar. Si no ho saben, comparteix-los l’enllaç del web on poden trobar-ho.

2) Truca als pares, avis i tiets, ajuda’ls a localitzar el seu col·legi electoral i assegura’t que podran desplaçar-s’hi.

3) Descarrega't aquest cartell i afegeix-hi el col·legi electoral que t'ha tocat, tot indicant-ne l'adreça. Imprimeix-ne diverses còpies, deixa'n a les bústies dels teus veïns i penja'n a la porteria i a l'ascensor. [+] CLICA PER DESCARREGAR CARTELL

4) Pensa amb totes les persones que creus que no aniran a votar per algun d’aquests motius: tenen por, dubtes, o no són independentistes.

5) Parla-hi: depèn de tu que també hi siguin

6) Dissabte recorda a tothom que l'endemà és el gran dia i que, sobretot, cal anar a votar d’hora.

7) Diumenge vota ben d’hora de bon matí, fes-te una foto votant i comparteix-la amb tothom a les xarxes socials.



The point 5 it does not say "make a list" it says, "think of that people that you think they will not go to vote. And the point 6 said. "Speak with them, is in your hands to change their mind to go vote (being yes or no)".

Becuase that manifesto is about that is EVERYBODYS hands to make the referendum a success making people go to vote. Because the most people that goes to vote, the more legitimization

AGAIN, like Carvajal said, too much manipulation.


As Carvajal said as well, thanks to find that product of manipulation, once more

They don´t have to make any list to difference between good or bad catalans. They are pointing them in public, as many people is being pointed for using spanish or protesting agains this

 

[carvajal]

ABC, the francoist newspaper I can put you independentist media if you want

Please Carvajal, use less biaised media

the information is wrong?

 

[4bars]

But lets play your game:

"El declive de Galicia en el XIX coincide con el espectacular ascenso de Cataluña, debido al ingenio y laboriosidad de su empresariado y a su condición de puerta con Francia. Pero hubo algo más (a small point). En su Diario de un Turista, de 1839, Stendhal, el maestro de la novela realista, recoge con la perspicacia propia de su talento sus impresiones tras un viaje de Perpiñán a Barcelona: «Los catalanes quieren leyes justas –anota–, a excepción de la ley de aduana, que debe ser hecha a su medida."

And you make valid my point, they protected from outside. But guess who benefited for the taxes of the catalans of that industry, they didn't protect the catalan industry FROM other regions of Spain, but from iternational ones. And that is just small part, the main is the bolded part

 

[carvajal]

But lets play your game:

"El declive de Galicia en el XIX coincide con el espectacular ascenso de Cataluña, debido al ingenio y laboriosidad de su empresariado y a su condición de puerta con Francia. Pero hubo algo más (a small point). En su Diario de un Turista, de 1839, Stendhal, el maestro de la novela realista, recoge con la perspicacia propia de su talento sus impresiones tras un viaje de Perpiñán a Barcelona: «Los catalanes quieren leyes justas –anota–, a excepción de la ley de aduana, que debe ser hecha a su medida."

And you make valid my point, they protected from outside. But guess who benefited for the taxes of the catalans of that industry, they didn't protect the catalan industry FROM other regions of Spain, but from iternational ones. And that is just small part, the main is the bolded part

so they protected your region or not? I will give you more examples. Tell me what press manipulates to choose another one

 

[4bars]

Cool. Franco would be proud of it. Just hope we are not seeing a rise in catalan terrorism like ETA now.

Would never happened, it existed something in the 80's but they had no support at all.

 

[4bars]

so they protected your region or not? I will give you more examples. Tell me what press manipulates to choose another one

Oh so you expected going against catalans? are you crazy?

They protected a part of their country as catalonia would protect himself if they would be independent.

You said that catalonia was benefited against other regions in Spain, and that is utter BS...again

 

[carvajal]

Oh so you expected going against catalans? are you crazy?

They protected a part of their country as catalonia would protect himself if they would be independent.

You said that catalonia was benefited against other regions in Spain, and that is utter BS...again

everything is bullshit of course. I think you need to travel more to Galicia, Andalucia or Extremadura to check how is Cataluña and how is the rest. What do you say about the "urnas" with votes?, what I posted before

 

[4bars]

They don´t have to make any list to difference between good or bad catalans. They are pointing them in public, as many people is being pointed for using spanish or protesting agains this

Err,,, where? proves please. because if not I will start to say lies (not saying that is a lie) and not posting proves.

 

[carvajal]

Err,,, where? proves please. because if not I will start to say lies (not saying that is a lie) and not posting proves.

4bars. I can check articles with personal experiences during these days, talking about the pressure to vote. The fracture between good catalans and fascists.
The note is totally legit. It appeared in every newspaper.

 

[4bars]

everything is bullshit of course. I think you need to travel more to Galicia, Andalucia or Extremadura to check how is Cataluña and how is the rest. What do you say about the "urnas" with votes?, what I posted before

Is not my fault if you post BS and I prove it over and over. If catalonia is how it is is because we are priviledged in geography and because we developed before. Greeks entered the peninsula from catalonia, as well romans, as well germanic troups, only region under Carlomagne, etc... We had rivers and coal to make energy for industrial revolution, one of the most important ports in mediterranian see all time and close to atlantic, we are the funnel of spain to go to europe. That regions, geographically speaking, are the bottom of europe and in natural resources are pretty poor, specially extremadura. If you add a government subsidising instead of investing because they have their votes, voila

 

[4bars]

4bars. I can check articles with personal experiences during these days, talking about the pressure to vote. The fracture between good catalans and fascists.
The note is totally legit. It appeared in every newspaper.

Oh, I am sure they feel pressured, because the society is very tensioned right now, but you make it sound like is in the nazi times, that they have to hide and people goes to their places. No, people is civilized and believe me, they can do a normal life without feeling threatened. Not like unionist hitting independentist...and I posted the images

 

[carvajal]

Is not my fault if you post BS and I prove it over and over. If catalonia is how it is is because we are priviledged in geography and because we developed before. Greeks entered the peninsula from catalonia, as well romans, as well germanic troups, only region under Carlomagne, etc... We had rivers and coal to make energy for industrial revolution, one of the most important ports in mediterranian see all time and close to atlantic, we are the funnel of spain to go to europe. That regions, geographically speaking, are the bottom of europe and in natural resources are pretty poor, specially extremadura. If you add a government subsidising instead of investing because they have their votes, voila

So, what do you think about the votes inside the ballots before everything began?
I share it again

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[4bars]

everything is bullshit of course. I think you need to travel more to Galicia, Andalucia or Extremadura to check how is Cataluña and how is the rest. What do you say about the "urnas" with votes?, what I posted before

Sorry, I didn´t read the unas with votes, could you repeat it please?

 

[carvajal]

Oh, I am sure they feel pressured, because the society is very tensioned right now, but you make it sound like is in the nazi times, that they have to hide and people goes to their places. No, people is civilized and believe me, they can do a normal life without feeling threatened. Not like unionist hitting independentist...and I posted the images

http://www.elmundo.es/cataluna/2017/09/27/59caadf9468aeb27098b4665.html

 

[4bars]

So, what do you think about the votes inside the ballots before everything began?
I share it again

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Hahaha, of course, they were entering the HIdden ballot boxes and hidden ballots to go inside and using the ballot boxes to transport them inside, empty the boxes to put the ballots in the table and start the votation with the ballot boxes empty. It was a mean of transportation and the ballots inside are without the "tick".

OMG, I am literally laughing of this trying of manipulation.

 

[rcoobc]

That's what you extrapolated from that? Quite the escalation.

Are there any other options?

Either its a fair and carefully planned free election, or democracy is giving way to tyranny, in which case violence follows

 

[4bars]

http://www.elmundo.es/cataluna/2017/09/27/59caadf9468aeb27098b4665.html

Well, I can tell you my own experience, In university, a a few guys of a more than a hundred people asked for spanish, and they changed to spanish. I said that is not fair that for 3 of them (that they knew catalan) they changed the class language. This 3 people never spoke to me again. Fortunately I have good friends.

Not to speaking about the boicot of catalan products a few years ago, specially cava

As I said there are stories they exist in every part.

The only truth is that the most of thee violence comes from the same side

 

[4bars]

Yayyyyyy democracy party!

 

[carvajal]

Hahaha, of course, they were entering the HIdden ballot boxes and hidden ballots to go inside and using the ballot boxes to transport them inside, empty the boxes to put the ballots in the table and start the votation with the ballot boxes empty. It was a mean of transportation and the ballots inside are without the "tick".

OMG, I am literally laughing of this trying of manipulation.

4bars, there are people voting several times. There is zero control about the situation. Anyway, enough of reproaches. I think that you have a fight with Madrid and you have extended it to all Spain.
I do not like la guardia civil having to act, but I like less to see how the mossos who has sworn loyalty to the state, are not defending the law.
Sincerely, I hope that everything is solved and that things change for the better.

 

[carvajal]

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[4bars]

4bars, there are people voting several times (prove it or LIE). There is zero control about the situation (prove it or LIE). Anyway, enough of reproaches. I think that you have a fight with Madrid and you have extended it to all Spain.
I do not like la guardia civil having to act, but I like less to see how the mossos who has sworn loyalty to the state, are not defending the law.
Sincerely, I hope that everything is solved and that things change for the better.

If you wanted to be better done, blame rajoy for not agreeing a referendum, vote rajoy to do what he did with the police.

We didn´t extended to anywhere, we wanted to vote ourselves, is spain that meddles where is not called. Is our decision, our future

The mossos defended the law. They went to ALL the electoral colleges and by law seeing to many people that did not pose a thread, they left, "levantaron acta" (I don´t know how to translate it) and reported to the central command.


Is the Guardia Civil sworn to protect the people, make thee game of the corrupt politicians and the rich and hit people that only want to vote

I hope is solved and things change for the better, a big change, independence for Catalonia

 

[Fener1907]

Are there any other options?

Either its a fair and carefully planned free election, or democracy is giving way to tyranny, in which case violence follows

Fair, carefully planned and... legal, perhaps. For all of the talk about how 'democracy' is sacrosanct, it's highly questionable for the same people to show such a blatant disregard for the constitution. And supposing they say they have no recourse, it's supposedly then a matter of war. Not really, as violence can just be violence, not a precursor to a conflict of a much greater scale i.e. war.

In my opinion - and it means little as an outsider - the other options would have been to bide their time and let the PP continue to shoot themselves in the foot, see Spain work towards a more "progressive" future with, say, Podemos or PSOE, and then ask the question when the conservative opposition to it is at its weakest.

 

[4bars]

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So no human shield after all, dad wasnt attacked and he didnt put the child between a GC attack as it looked at the original pictures that you posted.

More manipulation

Very good for the Guardia Civil, kudos to him. Still bad for the father, I would not put in risk my child that way

 

[Stanley Road]

Yayyyyyy democracy party!

Thatcher style politics

 

[4bars]

Yayyyy!!! GC at his finest. Fierce warriors against the mighty catalan army

 

[PedroMendez]

Ortega y Gasset - España invertebrada (+ la rebellion de la mases) becomes relevant again almost 100 years after it it published.

Paraphrasing: the solidarity that is necessary for a functioning nation seems to be lost.

 

[JPRouve]

Thatcher style politics

Iron hands wearing iron gloves, wielding titanium sticks.

 

[4bars]

Ortega y Gasset - España invertebrada (+ la rebellion de la mases) becomes relevant again almost 100 years after it it published.

Paraphrasing: the solidarity that is necessary for a functioning nation seems to be lost.

Well you can pick Unamuno in 1907¨: "Merecemos perder Cataluña. Esa cochina prensa madrileña está haciendo la misma labor que con Cuba. No se entera. Es la bárbara mentalidad castellana, su cerebro cojonudo (tienen testículos en vez de sesos en la mollera)".

 

[Mrs Smoker]

Life goes on in Barcelona, right, Messi and co will play today?

 

[Fener1907]

Yayyyy!!! GC at his finest. Fierce warriors against the mighty catalan army

No need for that. Best response would be to just let them sit around in peace. Not that I expect the police to show much restraint.

 

[4bars]

No need for that. Best response would be to just let them sit around in peace. Not that I expect the police to show much restraint.

Well, that happened in dozens of places today, and I remember, non violent people VOTING

 

[NinjaFletch]

Life goes on in Barcelona, right, Messi and co will play today?

I think Barca want it postponed, and Las Palmas have just announced they're going to be wearing a Spanish flag on their kit which apparently is allowed by La Liga...

 

[4bars]

Life goes on in Barcelona, right, Messi and co will play today?

They will. Pique voted

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And yeah, he care nothing about football today

 

[Mrs Smoker]

Might be tasty. Testy?

 

[4bars]

I think Barca want it postponed, and Las Palmas have just announced they're going to be wearing a Spanish flag on their kit which apparently is allowed by La Liga...

Barcelona has the catalan flag on their kit

And I see no problem in both cases