Catalonia referendum| Catalonia declares independence from Spain

fcbforever

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Seen some footage of riot police brutality. Throwing around children ffs! Didn't expect that from a Western country.
That's honestly standard procedure for Spanish police. They are feared throughout Europe. I remember when we had a class trip to Barcelona and the thing our teachers hammered into us the most was "don't piss of the police in any way".

Also the reason I would never make a trip to Spain to see a Bayern match, every single time, they are going nuts on foreign fans.
 

4bars

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From the outside looking in it's very depressing to see so much emotion and so little rationality. Emotionally I can fully understand the urge for independency, but there's an incredible naivity regarding the potentially desastrous economic consequences for both Spain and an independent Catalunya. Apparently a realistic potential outcome isn't as important as a feeling. Hardly a surprise given the times we live in, but still.

Well, I think that catalunya would be alright economically speaking, Spain always had been dragging resources and infrastructure to Madrid. But anyway, I prefer to be the owner of my destiny and being not that ok, that not being able to decide by myself.

I am curious why you think it will be an economic desastrous for both. Whats your argument in that?
 

4bars

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By the way Carvajal, Mossos didn´t receive any instructions from the central government. Said by the central government, so calm down with the lads
 

GhastlyHun

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From the outside looking in it's very depressing to see so much emotion and so little rationality. Emotionally I can fully understand the urge for independency, but there's an incredible naivity regarding the potentially desastrous economic consequences for both Spain and an independent Catalunya. Apparently a realistic potential outcome isn't as important as a feeling. Hardly a surprise given the times we live in, but still.
I think so, too. The government's willingness to use force against the vote (it's just pieces of paper, you wont make the voices go away anyways) is depressing as well.
 

Smores

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State of the riot police ffs. You'd think they were purposefully inflaming the situation so they can report unrest

Just imagine if we'd have done that to the Scots they'd still be stood on the border with their kilts up :lol:
 

VorZakone

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That's honestly standard procedure for Spanish police. They are feared throughout Europe. I remember when we had a class trip to Barcelona and the thing our teachers hammered into us the most was "don't piss of the police in any way".

Also the reason I would never make a trip to Spain to see a Bayern match, every single time, they are going nuts on foreign fans.
That's standard procedure? Why do citizens let them get away with it?
 

4bars

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That's standard procedure? Why do citizens let them get away with it?
We never ended the dictator, he simply died of old, and after that we never went fully democratic and the police and military are exactly the same as that time
 

carvajal

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We never ended the dictator, he simply died of old, and after that we never went fully democratic and the police and military are exactly the same as that time
We went fully democratic with a Constitution that Cataluña agreed in a 90%
 

4bars

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We went fully democratic with a Constitution that Cataluña agreed in a 90%
in fear that the heirs of dictatorship would come if we would not agree. After a civil war and 40 years of dictatorship that piece of shit of constitution was heaven. Anyway. 70% of the people alive today, didn´t vote it currently
 

carvajal

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in fear that the heirs of dictatorship would come if we would not agree. After a civil war and 40 years of dictatorship that piece of shit of constitution was heaven. Anyway. 70% of the people alive today, didn´t vote it currently
Look, the catalan revolution of flowers and smiles throwing stones :lol:.I think that the constitution is fine. It worked during many years giving you many competences and freedom to develop your culture
 

4bars

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Look, the catalan revolution of flowers and smiles throwing stones :lol:.I think that the constitution is fine. It worked during many years giving you many competences and freedom to develop your culture
MAae, what do you expect?, that nothing happens with what GC and police did?

Manipulations, lies and now false equivalence? you are like trump with charlottetown
 

carvajal

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MAae, what do you expect?, that nothing happens with what GC and police did?

Manipulations, lies and now false equivalence? you are like trump with charlottetown
The note is real. You have seen how the ballots are in the street,no control. It doesn´t look like a lie or a manipulation.
 

4bars

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I think that the constitution is fine. It worked during many years giving you many competences and freedom to develop your culture
Our culture was there before any constitution. that paternalism is disgusting. And this constitution took us away the competences that we had
 

4bars

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The note is real. You have seen how the ballots are in the street,no control. It doesn´t look like a lie or a manipulation.

What I know is that they will not be counted, that's why there are electoral college. And you can't complain of a referendum that the spanish government did what they could to destroy.

Don´t worry, people are still queing and only the ones controlled by the tables will be counted
 

carvajal

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Our culture was there before any constitution. that paternalism is disgusting. And this constitution took us away the competences that we had
Every region has their own culture. You have lots of competences to keep you in a country with many different people and cultures, trying to find the integration of everybody.
 

4bars

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Every region has their own culture. You have lots of competences to keep you in a country with many different people and cultures, trying to find the integration of everybody.
Yes, I will find integration among the ones of "a por ellos"

The theory is very beautiful, different people and cultures. Then the minister of education in 2011 said "tenemos que españolizar los niños catalanes" like the catalan kids are not enough spanish because they speak catalan
 

4bars

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They support the right to have a referendum and would accept the result it. They are fairly mute on the matter itself, but prefer Catalonia staying in Spain.
On that referendum no. Only podemos in catalunya. Pablo Iglesias only would accept an agreed referendum with the government
 

carvajal

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Yes, I will find integration among the ones of "a por ellos"

The theory is very beautiful, different people and cultures. Then the minister of education in 2011 said "tenemos que españolizar los niños catalanes" like the catalan kids are not enough spanish because they speak catalan
do not be influenced by them, or by the "cara al sol". In the first case I think there were a lot of relatives worried and upset for what happened days before with the Guardia Civil. In the second case they were four assholes. In the same way that you are not burning the flags of Spain in groups.
Before all this I never had any problems with Cataluña. I really began to feel a bit excluded with the "Spain steal us" and the arrogant tone of the Generalitat sometimes, treating the rest of Spain as hicks, while they were hiding their poor management.
 

4bars

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do not be influenced by them, or by the "cara al sol". In the first case I think there were a lot of relatives worried and upset for what happened days before with the Guardia Civil. In the second case they were four assholes. In the same way that you are not burning the flags of Spain in groups.
Before all this I never had any problems with Cataluña. I really began to feel a bit excluded with the "Spain steal us" and the arrogant tone of the Generalitat sometimes, treating the rest of Spain as hicks, while they were hiding their poor management.

Family and friends jeering and salute them and said "viva la GC" or "Viva España" is absolutly all right. "A por ellos"....makes no sense.


The spain steal us I find did personally disgusted. And catalan politicians are as despicable as the spaniards. And yes they hided their poor management and corruption (as Rajoy is doing now with thre referendum).
 

4bars

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That's what I mean.
The referendum today is a joke. The way everything happened, this is never fair, free with equal opportunity for all sides.

Well, is a joke for the ones that likes the status quo. If it became less a referendum is not because of catalonia but for spanish intervention.

You want equal oppotunities for all sides? then organize the referendum, not forbid it. 80% wants a referendum? I send the police. Makes sense
 

carvajal

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Family and friends jeering and salute them and said "viva la GC" or "Viva España" is absolutly all right. "A por ellos"....makes no sense.


The spain steal us I find did personally disgusted. And catalan politicians are as despicable as the spaniards. And yes they hided their poor management and corruption (as Rajoy is doing now with thre referendum).
I'm afraid this is going to be long and it will be very difficult to reconcile. It will be monothema in the press with constant reproaches. Rajoy should resign, but the truth is that the opposition is as poor as him.
 

4bars

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I don´t know, but I don´t think that is fascist, or at least I never heard anything about that
Me neither. I think that was a galic (from galia) weapon? but I just sounds that familiar