Champions League QF Draw | Manchester United v Barcelona
- Thread starter Samid
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City have a similar euro pedigree to PSG, and think they will go out against all of the other top teams unless they play us. That’s if they even get past Schalke!
Good thing I haven't argued against that then, have I?
Ajax have an incredible history, but they haven't been at that level in decades. Pretending that because they won some trophies 20 years ago they're somehow a harder draw than us now is ludicrous, sorry but it is. I've already said this but Nottingham Forest also have pedigree as a club, but it wouldn't mean shit if they were thrown in to European competition, because the quality of the players/manager you have now is what counts.
These days most years Ajax are doing very well to get out of the group stages, so how has that pedigree been aiding them whatsoever? Would they also be favourites against City because City have no European pedigree?
The best teams win trophies. Ajax were the best team decades ago, they aren't that same team now so they will not win the CL. Inter Milan have far more European pedigree than we do and won a CL trophy far more recently than Ajax, yet we dumped them out in the groups, all that pedigree couldn't get them a win at home to PSV.
To be fair, given Spurs recent form and after how comprehensively Ajax beat Madrid the other night, I'd have to say Ajax could pose more problems. Spurs have been woeful in recent weeks and it's clear something is very wrong at the club.
Poch hasn't been his usual self and he's been clearly distracted and rattled by all the talk of him leaving for United or Madrid. Personally I'm glad because 1. I don't rate him much and 2. Spurs poor form helps United in their quest for a top 4 place, so long may it continue. However, you are right this is a Champions League discussion and I would personally prefer an Ajax draw just because we play you guys at least twice a season and I think home team draws are always more edgy and less exciting because there is not so much of the unknown about them. Also you want to be in the Champions League to play foreign sides and put yourself against the best Europe has to offer, so even if it's a tougher draw I'd always prefer that than being against a home side.
Oh yeah it's totally ludicrous to point out that a team not top of a league ranked ELEVENTH by UEFA might not be as strong as some are making them out to be.
I want Ajax or Porto, not because they are easy but they are unquestionably the easiest ties we can get and I'd like us to have the best chance possible of making the semis. My preference is Ajax just because it would be two positive young teams and two clubs with such great history in that aspect of football and indeed in Europe, plus we'd see de Ligt up against our forwards which would be interesting.
These are decent points, but I think you're exaggerating the extent of our problems. I wouldn't suggest something is 'very wrong' at the club, we're struggling badly with form and need to get our act together but we're still very much fighting every week and there will be no shortage of commitment for a European tie in particular. We've got a while until the quarters so plenty of time for form to correct itself, and Ajax have had some horrific results of their own this season.
I think if you drew Ajax United win it 9/10 times. The fact they put in that performance vs Madrid will mean you won't be complacent and the reality is you're a much better team than they are, playing in a far better league and possessing much better players overall. Great teams don't get hammered by Feyenoord in the way Ajax did, or trail that PSV side in their domestic league. They're a team who shocked everyone with one great result against a Real Madrid in crisis, but imo are the weakest side remaining in the competition, including Porto.
Well AC Milan and Madrid aren't in this - two teams I've always dreaded in CL.
To be honest mate, I doubt you watched all the match the other night because it was on the same time as spurs wasn’t it?
They played well, I couldnt give a flying feck where the Dutch league is in league standings or where Ajax are in their league.
They have decent players and played some lovely football, in the Bernabéu.
You may have good players too but you’re form has dipped drastically lately and you don’t look all that frightening to play against.
That is it. That is all.
No need for such a strong defence of spurs quality over Ajax
You just don't understand how things work at the top table. It's understandable but tedious to argue with.
Not every side with pedigree wins every match and I haven't argued that Spurs couldn't beat Ajax in a one off, just that I'd back Ajax over two legs at the business end of European competition.
If Forest had a side capable of winning 4-1 at the Bernabeu, I would definitely back them to see off Spurs in a CL quarter final. They have the history and pedigree behind them and no matter how you dismiss it, that matters.
Ajax are used to losing all their best players to richer clubs in better leagues so their recent history is irrelevant. This year they've managed to keep hold of some real talent for long enough mount a serious campaign.
So Atletico then?Anyone but Juve
Hope Bayern dumps them out.
they wouldn't be favourites against City but the history and pedigree brings them closer . Spurs aren't as good as City so i can understand if some fans want to avoid Ajax or see it as tougher opponent.
Eventually we will need to beat the best of the lot anyway. It's anyone's competition now.
Man United v Liverpool and Spurs v Man City please.
Then a Manchester derby semi final. Then Ajax to beat whoever wins that in the final.
Then Chelsea to beat Ajax in next season's Super Cup, giving us the rightful title of the best team in Europe.
Then a Manchester derby semi final. Then Ajax to beat whoever wins that in the final.
Then Chelsea to beat Ajax in next season's Super Cup, giving us the rightful title of the best team in Europe.
Ajax would be a worse matchup than Spurs, a no brainer. Stylistically United can't cope too well with intense pressure, possession and fluid positional play of that kind.
Of course Ajax don't consistently play like they did against Madrid, it's not sustainable, they were dead tired at the end of the game despite having 1 week off to prepare, compared to Madrid who played 2 Clasicos in a row. But they have it in them for one or two games to turn it on like that. Played Barca off the park a couple of years ago as well:
Of course Ajax don't consistently play like they did against Madrid, it's not sustainable, they were dead tired at the end of the game despite having 1 week off to prepare, compared to Madrid who played 2 Clasicos in a row. But they have it in them for one or two games to turn it on like that. Played Barca off the park a couple of years ago as well:
What a train wreck of a post.Yeah if you go back quite a few decades, do Nottingham Forest still breed winners then? When was the last time Ajax even reached a CL quarter final? Their history counts for about as much as Red Star Belgrade's. We have 3 ex Ajax players in our backline, so if we start them do we also have bred winners? Or does that mumbo jumbo only apply when wearing the mythical Ajax shirt?
This Ajax side isn't all that special, or they'd be topping a very weak league against a nothing special PSV side. They've pulled off one great result against a badly faltering Madrid team and now they're a harder draw than us, it's ludicrous. We also just beat Dortmund 4-0 over two legs so it's hardly like we didn't get an impressive result of our own.
We've got more recent experience than Ajax in the CL as well. The only thing they have going for them is that they're a young team with nothing to lose, but that doesn't counter the fact we're clearly a much better team playing in a much stronger league.
Who can we expect to have back from injury for the Quarters?
I've seen the full game, was one of those results that I always feel the need to watch if I do miss it for whatever reason. They were fantastic but on the flip side Madrid were beyond terrible, it was honestly one of the worst displays I've ever seen from a supposed top side. The likes of Kroos, Courtois and Casemiro were genuinely embarrassing to watch, clearly they're not the Madrid we've been used to, as reflected by their own struggles domestically. Teams like Girona have been going to the Bernabau and getting wins. Ajax played without fear and with pace, invention and energy, totally in contrast to how insipid Real were, and they deservedly won off the back of that.
We're not that frightening right now, no, but I'd still back us to give a harder tie against you than Ajax. I think you'd roll them over and wouldn't be nearly as passionless and complacent as Madrid were. I'm judging them off an entire season rather than one result, and based on the season they are still the weakest side left in the competition. It's fine that you think otherwise, I just don't think shit like 'because you're Spurs and Ajax are winners' is really all that relevant to the state of the two teams in 2019.
Do you think you beat city over two legs?
It's such a shame Ajax's mythical pedigree didn't show all those seasons they were knocked out in the CL groups.
Having already beaten Juve and PSG, I think we’ve done a bit already. Being in 4th spot already, I’d rather we get an easy draw. If we offer to play both ties away, I should think they are all easy draws, mind
You compare them to Red Star and Forest. Ajax clearly breeds winners and world class talent consistently. I mean you've one player playing for you who came from Ajax and he's not even the best talent over the past decade.
Ajax have far more pedigree than Spurs.
Not ideal... but more beatable than Juve imo
Two teams who won European cups in the past and have pedigree which has done nothing for them.
Ajax have a fantastic academy and are a wonderful club, hence why they breed world class talent. They're exceptionally well run. Their result against Madrid was not down to pedigree (they were facing the greatest team ever to grace the competition) and neither will future results be.
Well of course not.
The CL is so wide open that really any team left could win with some luck. I expect Juve to be out next week.
Actually a scenario I wouldn't mind would be us to knockout City, City win the PL, and anyone but Liverpool to win the CL. This would be the ideal result for us. (I'm not even going to say we could win the CL because.....)
Not nearly as tedious as arguments based on intangibles.
Yeah see this is where we fundamentally disagree. I'll keep dismissing it because when two teams get on the pitch, what some blokes did 50 years ago is meaningless and has no impact on results, which is why plenty of clubs with fantastic history/pedigree constantly do suffer fall from graces when they stop being well run and wealthy. It's the same level of argument as people who think a side losing is due to the 'fabric of the club', which again for me is total nonsense and really not worth engaging with.
They've had talent in the past, and this squad is no more talented than past teams, hence why they're 2nd to PSV. If it was a mega talented team they would be comfortably winning the division and not getting smashed to bits not so long ago by Feyenoord.
Look, there's no point in this because we clearly have very, very different perspectives on football and there's no way I'm going to convince you of the way I see it, and vice versa. You can't prove/disprove this stuff, you either believe in it or you don't.
That's great. The manager with the midas touch.
Totally want to avoid the winner of the Juve/AM match. Either team would be difficult to crack. Also prefer to avoid City for this round. They are grounding out wins and prefer to see them later on with the season possibly taking a toll on them
Liverpool would be tasty, but our injuries probably play into their hands. Odd to think we actually had better chances in the last game, but I worry if Klopp has a bit more time to scheme based on our current resources.
Concerning Ajax, it's odd to think that tie would've been tailor made for Jose, but not sure Ole wants to stifle them. That could be a very entertaining tie.
Liverpool would be tasty, but our injuries probably play into their hands. Odd to think we actually had better chances in the last game, but I worry if Klopp has a bit more time to scheme based on our current resources.
Concerning Ajax, it's odd to think that tie would've been tailor made for Jose, but not sure Ole wants to stifle them. That could be a very entertaining tie.
Gotta like duffer
And that failure to see why it's important is why Spurs managers and supporters don't take the idea of winning a domestic cup seriously enough. You just don't understand the psychological importance of winning because you've only ever known how to be a loser.
The over simplicity of your Belgrade or Forest arguments just goes to prove how far off the point you are. Neither Belgrade or Forest currently have teams capable of reading the latter stages of the European Cup so their pedigree is irrelevant here.
Ajax have a good enough team to be here, that have history and pedigree the likes of which Spurs can only dream of and they have players in their squad who have won trophies. I'll back that over what Spurs have every time.
Honestly I'm not sure at this point if you're deliberately being a parody or not.
Also, we have a player in our squad who has led France to a world cup title, and numerous others who have won stuff for their country and previous clubs, probably trophies more valuable than the Eredivisie title (which is all I think anyone from the Ajax squad will have won?
EDIT: Actually many won't even won that, because the last Eredivisie title Ajax actually won was in 13/14. I guess they've been saving all that pedigree up.
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You do know you're wasting your time arguing once cliches like "bottle" and "tradition" get thrown into the mix, don't you?
The two teams I'd be the most confident against are Porto and Spurs. I'm not overhyping Ajax, just think that they have the momentum and would cause serious problems for any defence. Also, they are not serial bottlers like Tottenham.
Yeah .. I regret trying.
Bringing in your players international achievements only serves to show how shit your club is that despite having so many supposed winners, Spurs still win feck all .
That said, I'll rather face Ajax than Spurs but only because it's boring to get Spurs again when we face you lot every year in the league and sometimes cup games . Would rather get a proper European tie rather than another English meeting .
When do we find out who we got in the final?
Ok.
It's very, very difficult to simply add winners to a losing culture. You need to produce winners from within and you need winners managing from the top down.
City did it by recruiting and implementing a proven winning backroom and coaching team from the most successful club of the previous decade and it still cost them close to a billion pounds. Even still, they have struggled to fully understand what it takes to achieve in Europe.
Lloris is a winner, but he isn't the force of personality you need to turn around the culture of a club. He's not Cantona or Ronaldo.
The last real winners Spurs produced we're the likes of Sol Campbell, Mark Hughes and Glenn Hoddle. Until your academy starts bringing through more of their Calibre, you're not going to turn that culture around and until your leaders, coaches and supporters start trying to understand what it takes to be a winner, you're not going to produce players in that mould.