Drawing Liverpool in the semis worries me too since I have my heart set on destroying them in the final.
Champions League QF: Manchester United v Barcelona - Build Up Thread
- Thread starter charlenefan
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He isn't the same player who was guaranteed to go on an amazing run every 15 minutes. He picks his spots more these days. However the reason for thinking he's a bad matchup for our midfield is how every team seems to have a ton of space when running at out defence. It's not specifically a Messi-problem. Barca have a lot of players who can enjoy that flaw. It goes without saying that we too have players who could trouble their weaknesses. I think it's amazing that we're this good of a counterattacking team with few ballwinners in our centre. A midfield upgrade could really do wonders for us
I am not sure how much of Barcelona the most of the posters in this thread have seen this season.
They really arent nearly as good as they used to be.
They really arent nearly as good as they used to be.
They dispatched Bayern with ease, a poor Bayern albeit. But as I said in my previous posts, the English teams are the strongest in the competition and I suspect we'll see one of them win it this year, no one else looks that dangerous with the obvious exception of Messi and Ronaldo but even at 32 and 34, their powers are waning.
I hope we surprise a few people. Just worried about that little Argentinian fella.
I haven't watched a whole lot of them but from what I have seen, they've been very beatable by a team that wants it more than they do, and the obvious issue of Messi digging them out of the shit when he feels like it.
This isn't Pep's Barcelona, they have an ageing back line they can't seem to get right. The centre of the midfield isn't what it used to be, they've got a Brazilian named Arthur for fecks sake and a Vidal with only one working knee. They're a lot slower than they used to be.
Suarez has faced criticism this season that he's overweight and enjoyed his pre-season a bit too much, still hasn't scored in the CL this season. Coutinho has been a flop.
They prefer attacking way more than they do defending so let's really give them something to worry about.
Don't worry, Rojo won't start this game, no chance of a red card.
Let's hope Jones is fit to play against Messi and Suarez!
Barca aren't as good as they used to be during during the Xavi/Iniesta era. Very tough tie on paper, but Lyon were 1 goal away from winning 20 mins from time. Also, remember the a** whooping Roma handed them last year. They are very susceptible to the counter attack. If we play smart, and hit them on the counter with Rashford/Martial, we can win this thing.
It also depends on what kind of game Messi will have. If Messi has a bad game, Barca has a bad game. I believe that we have more of a team mentality, and we are not as reliant on one player. We were missing most of our important players vs PSG, but we still made it happen.
It also depends on what kind of game Messi will have. If Messi has a bad game, Barca has a bad game. I believe that we have more of a team mentality, and we are not as reliant on one player. We were missing most of our important players vs PSG, but we still made it happen.
The Juve match was in the group stage ? It wasn't really a tie wasn't it.
Barca aren't going to bottle it at home like PSG. The OT match is the key. Grab any win and see what we'll do there.
Need Martial back badly. Would go for a front 3 of Martial/Rashford/Lingard. As much pace and off the ball movement as possible.
I like the idea of having a Fred and Herrera combo with Pogba playing above them as people have said. Herrera will have to time his forward runs like he did against Chelsea in the FA Cup. I'd split Lingard between Martial and Rashford as a false 9 again...but Martial and Rashford have to be narrow and play from the channels to exploit the wide space, then any space behind.
The front 3 have to be assertive and incisive in their decision going forward to put Barca on their heels. If not and United forwards settle on the ball too long near the halfway line, that allows Barca's midfielders to close down the space from all angles. Need to bypass the midfielders and make the CBs turn behind them into space.
The front 3 have to be assertive and incisive in their decision going forward to put Barca on their heels. If not and United forwards settle on the ball too long near the halfway line, that allows Barca's midfielders to close down the space from all angles. Need to bypass the midfielders and make the CBs turn behind them into space.
We have a chance of going through. Not saying we're out just because we've drawn Barcelona. Messi is due a poor game or two against us anyway instead of just saving them for City and the dippers.
Can't wait. Old Trafford will be rocking. Barca are class but they're not the force of old. We can do this. I think we'll go through on away goals.
That's what I said?
I don’t reallly mind this draw as I think we can beat them on our day and I love those great European clashes against big clubs.
What I hate is that winning here gives us a pass to play Liverpool in what would probably be the two most stressful games I will have ever experienced.
What I hate is that winning here gives us a pass to play Liverpool in what would probably be the two most stressful games I will have ever experienced.
DDG
Young-Smalling-Lindelof-Shaw
Herrera-Matic-Pogba
Lingard-Rashford-Martial
Should be an interesting fixture. It'll be great to face Barcelona in Europe again and whatever happens happen.
Young-Smalling-Lindelof-Shaw
Herrera-Matic-Pogba
Lingard-Rashford-Martial
Should be an interesting fixture. It'll be great to face Barcelona in Europe again and whatever happens happen.
You mean he will have a Messy in his pocket, right?
I just hope Ole and co preempt their shite house tactics
De Gea
Young - Linderlof - Smalling - Shaw
Herrera(man mark Messi)
Fred(destroyer) - Pogba(quick release for counter)
Lingard(cut of supply line of Sergio Busquet)
Rashford - Martial) stay upfront for counter attack
2-1 United first leg. We need a team that can actually go toe to toe with Barcelona :/
Young - Linderlof - Smalling - Shaw
Herrera(man mark Messi)
Fred(destroyer) - Pogba(quick release for counter)
Lingard(cut of supply line of Sergio Busquet)
Rashford - Martial) stay upfront for counter attack
2-1 United first leg. We need a team that can actually go toe to toe with Barcelona :/
God the number of defeatist bores in this thread! We're back in the quarters playing Barca and Messi - I am fecking excited for it!
Ya can’t imagine many watch them regularly as they don’t show la liga any more on sky. They’re not the force they once were that’s for sure.
I hope Barca think they just need to show up against us.
It's a pity to have drawn Barca. And completely unfair to have to play the home game first, given the draw. Stupid rule that clearly puts us at a disadvantage.
I hope Ole selects a midfield with energy and legs. I don't think our first choice midfield is better suited to playing Barca than the 3 who played against PSG. I think I'd prefer McTominay to Matic. And no experimentation with Pogba. Just play him left side of the midfield 3 with a fluid front 3 (Tony, Rashford, Jesse).
Really hits home the lack of quality centre back options thinking about this game. Lindelof a certainty, but who partners him? Rash Bailly? Non-passer Smalling? Lunging Rojo? Phil Jones is probably the best bet, which isn't great (expect him to partner Lindelof against Wolves).
I hope Ole selects a midfield with energy and legs. I don't think our first choice midfield is better suited to playing Barca than the 3 who played against PSG. I think I'd prefer McTominay to Matic. And no experimentation with Pogba. Just play him left side of the midfield 3 with a fluid front 3 (Tony, Rashford, Jesse).
Really hits home the lack of quality centre back options thinking about this game. Lindelof a certainty, but who partners him? Rash Bailly? Non-passer Smalling? Lunging Rojo? Phil Jones is probably the best bet, which isn't great (expect him to partner Lindelof against Wolves).
We should have Herrera man marking Messi
Not saying they aren’t beatable, but you were still wrong in your statement by calling it their pomp. Do your research or don’t bother writing at all.
Every team is beatable, but Barca were and is less beatable than most. And given how they spanked United, really played them off the park, you’d have to be a special kind of optimist to think you’d have beaten them in a two legged affair in their pomp. This is just belly-aching opinionating really and trying to be hip.
Give some tactical analysis as to why you think you’d have beaten that Barca team. Fergie and co. looked clueless out there vs Pep.
Arthur is a top class midfielder and one of the best in the world already. A starter at Barca he has bossed every team he faced, including putting on a clinic against Modric multiple times. Outplayed Real Madrid's midfield. Shows how much you know about him.
Busquets, Rakitic and Arthur are vastly superior to United's midfield.
The front line with Messi, Suarez and Dembele is top quality as well, and Suarez was a beast against Lyon despite not scoring (but boxscore watchers like yourself wont know that).
But Messi alone is enough for Barca anyway, so it wont matter much that Suarez is not as consistent as he was before.
Their backline is incledible with Alba, Pique, Lenlet/Umtiti and Semedo. Only Pique is above 30, how is that ageing? Againt a swing and a miss from you. It sounds like you haven't watched Barca at all with this ignorant statement. But it's not surprise given your previous statements about Rijkaard being Barca in their pomp.
They're a weird team. They're undoubtedly still a brilliant side, with brilliant players, and by all objective measures they're having a fantastic season...but it does, somehow, feel like something's missing. Dunno what it is. There's a certain dynamism or cohesiveness that's lacking from the Guardiola era. They're excellent, but they don't feel somehow unbeatable or unstoppable. But then maybe it's harsh to compare this side to Guardiola's Barca team since they're widely considered to be one of the best of all-time. Hard standards to live up to.
But they'll still head into this tie as heavy favourites. They're in relatively imperious form in the league, haven't really put a foot wrong in the CL, and pissed all over Real in the Copa Del Rey recently. Big hill to climb if we want to stand a chance.
But still...it's sort of exciting all the same. Objectively speaking it's one of the worst ties we could've been given, but it's fun to actually be in a position to be able to play such ties at this stage of the competition again. It's basically the first time since 2011 we've gotten to this point in the CL while being able to feel anything other than an absolute doom, considering the last time we got there Moyes was in charge against a Bayern side defending the trophy. Even if we don't win, it'll feel good to be back...provided we don't disgrace ourselves.
Barca are a good team and great team with Messi and while we still have a ways to go to as a team - we have players that can produce magic as well and a team that will fight, so think we have every chance.
Think people forget against PSG we lost Lingard and Martial in the first half and no Smalling in defense - in the first half we had some chances in that game at home and really should have had a man advantage. As long as we continue to be really solid at the back and are able to hit Barca on the break and even set pieces, we will be a threat.
Think people forget against PSG we lost Lingard and Martial in the first half and no Smalling in defense - in the first half we had some chances in that game at home and really should have had a man advantage. As long as we continue to be really solid at the back and are able to hit Barca on the break and even set pieces, we will be a threat.
Barca are comfortable favourites, but then so was PSG. Hopefully we put up a fight and can nick the win.
If you want to be the best then beat the best. No point backing into the next round by playing park the bus football because you are scared of your opponent. Look at what Ajax did to Real. They went for it and played balls out football and embarrassed the champions in their own house. We should be doing the exact same thing. Lets get a little physical on them and smother them, wind them up, get them off their game. They have owned us twice in UCL finals and its about time for some revenge!!
You haven't watched much of Arthur, have you?
Arthur is brilliant. His technique is very good, he is highly press resistant. Keeps the midfield ticking, always seems to make the right decision and can find the through balls into space as well as put in a well timed tackle. Vidal doesn't start - Busquets, Rakitic and Arthur do. One of the best midfields in the world right now.
Suarez is in form and his link up play with Messi seems telepathic. Look at his touches for the goals he's scored recently - world class. Sometimes he passes when he should shoot, and shoots when he should pass, but apart from that he's been very good as well.
Defensively they're solid, too. Pique, Umtiti and Lenglet aren't 'aging'. Also before Umtiti got injured their back line was well set, he is getting back to fitness again. Alba is Robertson, but better. Their right back is the only weak link - Roberto is more of a midfielder who can struggle occasionally, and Semedo is fast but naive. But overall they have a far better defence than we do. That is without taking Ter Steven into account - who in my opinion is the most well rounded GK in the world right now. DDG might be a tad better that shot stopping, but Ter Stegen is vastly superior to him in every other department, especially distribution.
You're right on a couple of accounts - they are slower if Dembele isn't playing (their transitions with Messi/Suarez are still lightning quick, I'm just talking about individual pace here) and Coutinho has been disappointing for them. Another weakness is that their defence pushes too high sometimes, with full backs out of position - leaves them open to counters. And oh, they're abysmal from corners and set pieces which aren't in direct goal scoring positions for Messi.
Overall, they are a far superior team, even without taking Messi into account. If he turns up, well, we know how that ends.
Edit: My best friend is a Barca fan, and we have an agreement that he'll watch United games with me if I watch Barca with him. I've seen quite a few Barca games this season - they're not invincible anymore (Rayo and Lyon away come to mind) but they're a pleasure to watch at times.
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We’re on a good run, but there’s no reason to get ahead of outselves just yet, we’ve clearly overachieved, we went on a SAF-esqe run under OGS, but that team is not there yet. We can’t just go out there and play our game, this isn’t Cardiff, that would be completely stupid.
Have to br smart, tactical and take our chances when we get them, basically same as PSG away.
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One thing we have avoided is hoofing the ball. When we counter attack we keep ball on the ground and rely on pace and movement. We shouldn't abandon that, that should be the foundation to build on.
We have Rashford, Lukaku, Martial, Lingard. 3 out of 4 will start and everyone is quick. We should hit them on counters.
Also last season Chelsea and Roma showed Barca can be beaten, everyone should put a shift in. Both Chelsea and Roma covered lot of distance which is very important vs Barca.
This is another free hit for us IMHO and that should scare barca. They'll know they are strong favorites against us while also keeping in mind that we have some very capable players, who belive anything is possible.
Let's hope the injuries clear up for us and we give them one hell of a game.
Let's hope the injuries clear up for us and we give them one hell of a game.
I'll go with :
-------------------De Gea-------------------
---Dalot----Smalling---Lindelof---Shaw---
---------------------Matic-------------------
------------Herrera--------Pogba-----------
---Lingard---------Rashford------Martial---
With three of Lingard, Herrera, Rashford covering a lot of grounds. Pogba playing more as an AMF, going up whenever Rashford drops deep. Martial stays on top and wide (his favorite spot to start dribbling). Matic should never come out. Play tight at the back but wide up front, play long through balls if needed and catch them off guard. Against tiki-taka you can't play short passes effectively, They'll probably win more balls that way. Matic + Shaw marking Messi.
-------------------De Gea-------------------
---Dalot----Smalling---Lindelof---Shaw---
---------------------Matic-------------------
------------Herrera--------Pogba-----------
---Lingard---------Rashford------Martial---
With three of Lingard, Herrera, Rashford covering a lot of grounds. Pogba playing more as an AMF, going up whenever Rashford drops deep. Martial stays on top and wide (his favorite spot to start dribbling). Matic should never come out. Play tight at the back but wide up front, play long through balls if needed and catch them off guard. Against tiki-taka you can't play short passes effectively, They'll probably win more balls that way. Matic + Shaw marking Messi.
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This is a forum, I'm not writing or submitting a paper of some description, I'll write what I want thanks.
I maintain that they were beatable over two legs, that's not a hip statement, that's my belief. Games at that level are decided by fine margins and most importantly the mental attributes of the players and their ability to handle the pressure. What didn't help was this belief that they were completely unbeatable, you might as well go into the game 1-0 down if you already believe Messi and co and going to rip you a new one. It's a defeatist attitude peddled here by yourself and many others in this forum since the draw.
No one looked clueless against Pep. Barcelona were one trophy away from a quadruple, they were flying. We made individual errors and Rio has gone on to talk about how he couldn't get a hold of Messi due to his short stature, we all know the mistake Carrick made as well. We bottled it, that was the issue. When the narrative is all about how Barcelona are going to complete the quadruple, they're the best team in the world ever, Messi is the best football on the planet, ever, then guess what the outcome of the game is going to be?
Yeah, no he's not, that's an outright outlandish statement if ever I saw one. You can't base anyone's ability on playing Madrid this season, they're dreadful.
Barcelona's midfield is ageing, like the rest of the team. You're obviously a Barcelona fan so there's no point in continuing this debate but your team is no where near as good as you like to think they are. You play in a league where your only competition is a team that can't decide which manager they want to appoint this month and you've played no one worth noting so far this season. Your arrogance will be your downfall, much like PSG. There's a reason why four English teams are in the Champions League still.
You're right, I haven't watched them much. Too much sideways passing and 'get the ball to Messi' was just too boring to watch in the end. You best hope that he never retires and isn't injured for the United tie otherwise you're in a world of trouble.
Good analysis but I just don't subscribe to this notion that they're the best thing in football since football began. They're only human and this team hasn't got the bottle to get to get through a tie when the pressure is truly on, we've seen that in recent years.You haven't watched much of Arthur, have you?
Arthur is brilliant. His technique is very good, he is highly press resistant. Keeps the midfield ticking, always seems to make the right decision and can find the through balls into space as well as put in a well timed tackle. Vidal doesn't start - Busquets, Rakitic and Arthur do. One of the best midfields in the world right now.
Suarez is in form and his link up play with Messi seems telepathic. Look at his touches for the goals he's scored recently - world class. Sometimes he passes when he should shoot, and shoots when he should pass, but apart from that he's been very good as well.
Defensively they're solid, too. Pique, Umtiti and Lenglet aren't 'aging'. Also before Umtiti got injured their back line was well set, he is getting back to fitness again. Alba is Robertson, but better. Their right back is the only weak link - Roberto is more of a midfielder who can struggle occasionally, and Semedo is fast but naive. But overall they have a far better defence than we do. That is without taking Ter Steven into account - who in my opinion is the most well rounded GK in the world right now. DDG might be a tad better that shot stopping, but Ter Stegen is vastly superior to him in every other department, especially distribution.
You're right on a couple of accounts - they are slower if Dembele isn't playing (their transitions with Messi/Suarez are still lightning quick, I'm just talking about individual pace here) and Coutinho has been disappointing for them. Another weakness is that their defence pushes too high sometimes, with full backs out of position - leaves them open to counters. And oh, they're abysmal from corners and set pieces which aren't in direct goal scoring positions for Messi.
Overall, they are a far superior team, even without taking Messi into account. If he turns up, well, we know how that ends.
Edit: My best friend is a Barca fan, and we have an agreement that he'll watch United games with me if I watch Barca with him. I've seen quite a few Barca games this season - they're not invincible anymore (Rayo and Lyon away come to mind) but they're a pleasure to watch at times.
They might have some great players but so do we, our team also recently won a European competition and have the bottle to win when it matters.
At the rate people are writing us off in here I just hope the players don't have the same opinion because we might as well start 4-0 down if that's the case.
They're beatable, they will underestimate us, we have nothing to lose in this tie because no one is giving us a chance.
I like this lineup but I’d replace Matic with Fred because Matic is slow and with the way Barcelona plays, we’ll need more mobility and energy in our midfield.