Champions League QF: Manchester United v Barcelona - Build Up Thread

[Red_Aaron]

We'll be the underdogs obviously but I think we've more chance than most on here are giving us. I'd call it around 70-30 in their favour

Getting a lead in the tie will be crucial, we need to be in a position to counter them going to the nou camp. They won't be nervy or naive like psg were, if they're ahead they'll suffocate the game

Fast start at OT is a must for me

 

[Gandalf Greyhame]

Good analysis but I just don't subscribe to this notion that they're the best thing in football since football began. They're only human and this team hasn't got the bottle to get to get through a tie when the pressure is truly on, we've seen that in recent years.

1) No one has said that they're the best thing in football ever. The argument is that they are a far superior team to us.
2) They staged the biggest CL comeback in history barely 2 seasons ago. They also have the most points from losing positions in Europe this season. Character isn't something they're lacking.

Of course we have a chance, but downplaying that Barca team to uplift our chances is naive.

Yeah, no he's not, that's an outright outlandish statement if ever I saw one.

Your basis for not agreeing that Arthur is a top midfielder? You've admitted you don't watch him, there must be something else.

Barcelona's midfield is ageing, like the rest of the team.

They have 4 players above 30, yes - but one of them is Messi so it doesn't count.

Ter Stegen: 26-----------DDG: 28
Semedo: 25--------------Young: 33
Umtiti: 25------------------Lindelof: 24
Pique: 32------------------Smalling: 29
Alba: 29--------------------Shaw: 23
Busquets: 30-------------Matic: 30
Arthur: 22-----------------Pogba: 26
Rakitic: 31----------------Herrera: 29
Dembele: 21-------------Martial: 23
Messi: 31 ----------------Rashford: 21
Suarez: 32----------------Lukaku: 25

Avg: 27.6-----------------Avg: 26.4

Their avg midfield age is lesser than ours. Their overall avg age is just 1.2 years more than ours.
What ageing are you talking about?

Too much sideways passing and 'get the ball to Messi' was just too boring to watch in the end.

This is just plain ridiculous. You really have no idea how they play right now.

 

[SSSSnake]

Don't worry, Rojo won't start this game, no chance of a red card.

 

[SSSSnake]

What’s the plan!? Diamond midfield and counter attack? Herrera man makes Messi?

 

[crossy1686]

1) No one has said that they're the best thing in football ever. The argument is that they are a far superior team to us.
2) They staged the biggest CL comeback in history barely 2 seasons ago. They also have the most points from losing positions in Europe this season. Character isn't something they're lacking.

Of course we have a chance, but downplaying that Barca team to uplift our chances is naive.



Your basis for not agreeing that Arthur is a top midfielder? You've admitted you don't watch him, there must be something else.



They have 4 players above 30, yes - but one of them is Messi so it doesn't count.

Ter Stegen: 26-----------DDG: 28
Semedo: 25--------------Young: 33
Umtiti: 25------------------Lindelof: 24
Pique: 32------------------Smalling: 29
Alba: 29--------------------Shaw: 23
Busquets: 30-------------Matic: 30
Arthur: 22-----------------Pogba: 26
Rakitic: 31----------------Herrera: 29
Dembele: 21-------------Martial: 23
Messi: 31 ----------------Rashford: 21
Suarez: 32----------------Lukaku: 25

Avg: 27.6-----------------Avg: 26.4

Their avg midfield age is lesser than ours. Their overall avg age is just 1.2 years more than ours.
What ageing are you talking about?



This is just plain ridiculous. You really have no idea how they play right now.

As I said, some people prefer to bury us before the tie has even been played, I prefer the alternate scenario where we're actually a decent side and aren't going to get our arse handed to us.

That statement was levelled at Pep's Barcelona, not the current one. I've watched them, they're not all that.

 

[#00F]

Barcelona's midfield is ageing, like the rest of the team

Arthur - Busquets - Rakitic vs Pogba - Matic - Hererra seems the most likely choice in midfield.

Check the average age of these combination. Not a retirement home like you speculated.

 

[Gandalf Greyhame]

What’s the plan!? Diamond midfield and counter attack? Herrera man makes Messi?

From what I've seen of them this season, their full backs push up high too often, and the back line is also pretty high up the pitch. Valverde's plans of staying defensive have backfired in the past, so he won't change the way they play, I'd say. Especially not after the debacle at Roma last year. They'll come to attack. If we're clincial with our few chances and resolute in defence, we'll be in with a shout.

We should set up on the counter, which is quite suited to us. Attack the space behind their fullbacks, break with speed. Probably with direct long balls - you can't play along the ground against them very successfully. Have late runners at the edge of the box, take shots from range. Look for fouls and corners in their half - they're not very good at set pieces.

In defence, compress space and width. No shame in parking the bus barring a couple of pacy players ready to break. Don't bother pressing their midfield, they're too good. Let them keep possession and try to break you down. Stick Herrera on Messi - let him follow him everywhere, and pray that he has an off day.

 

[Spark]

Quick one - and apologies if already answered elsewhere (I can't seem to see it asked) - but why is our leg being reversed and not City's?

First leg at home is a disadvantage, no matter what anyone says. Obviously there can't be two home games played in Manchester at the same time, but what made the authorities pick us to feck off to Barcelona in the first leg and not City to London?

Edit: Don't worry, found the answer. We're worse than City (finished lower in the league), so get shafted. Fair enough.

 

[Mr.Ridiculous__]

I hope we tear down this invincible fortress everyone keeps banging on about.

 

[cyberman]

From what I've seen of them this season, their full backs push up high too often, and the back line is also pretty high up the pitch. Valverde's plans of staying defensive have backfired in the past, so he won't change the way they play, I'd say. Especially not after the debacle at Roma last year. They'll come to attack. If we're clincial with our few chances and resolute in defence, we'll be in with a shout.

We should set up on the counter, which is quite suited to us. Attack the space behind their fullbacks, break with speed. Probably with direct long balls - you can't play along the ground against them very successfully. Have late runners at the edge of the box, take shots from range. Look for fouls and corners in their half - they're not very good at set pieces.

In defence, compress space and width. No shame in parking the bus barring a couple of pacy players ready to break. Don't bother pressing their midfield, they're too good. Let them keep possession and try to break you down. Stick Herrera on Messi - let him follow him everywhere, and pray that he has an off day.

You don't have to pray he has an off day, he seems to have an off day everytime he leaves the camp nou in CL knockout stages these days.

 

[wolvored]

I think we will play both legs the same as we did PSG away. At the home leg defending deep and hoping to hit them on the counter. The away leg would be different if we are behind by more than one goal. Ole would then have to go for it. I would love us to attack them at home from the start though. At the end of the day whatever happens this is not Oles squad and he has mainly produced a masterclass with what he has had to work with.

 

[Rajma]

Guys...Lyon have kept the tie well and alive until minute 70th of return leg in Camp Nou, we certainly have a bigger chance than people are giving us based on the level of Barca’s defending nowadays.

 

[crossy1686]

Arthur - Busquets - Rakitic vs Pogba - Matic - Hererra seems the most likely choice in midfield.

Check the average age of these combination. Not a retirement home like you speculated.

Neither are we the whipping boys of the CL. A lot of ageing legs in that midfield of yours...

 

[Patrick08]

What’s the plan!? Diamond midfield and counter attack? Herrera man makes Messi?

Messi can not be man marked he floats all around the pitch. Packing the midfield and forcing them to play wide can be the option.

 

[tenpoless]

I'm picturing a scrappy 1-1 draw at OT where we are outplayed but get off the hook, then a historic 3-2 victory away at Camp Nou. Herrera with one of the great all-time United performances: assists one, scores one, disappears Messi so completely he retires after the match, bites his own nipple off while the ref isn't looking to get Suarez sent off.

Buzzing.

Nice plan. Man mark Messi with a mad dog till He goes completely insane. Retiring from football is pretty normal... but biting your own nipple to get your team mate sent off? that's a Louie Van Gaal type of madness right there.

 

[Patrick08]

From what I've seen of them this season, their full backs push up high too often, and the back line is also pretty high up the pitch. Valverde's plans of staying defensive have backfired in the past, so he won't change the way they play, I'd say. Especially not after the debacle at Roma last year. They'll come to attack. If we're clincial with our few chances and resolute in defence, we'll be in with a shout.

We should set up on the counter, which is quite suited to us. Attack the space behind their fullbacks, break with speed. Probably with direct long balls - you can't play along the ground against them very successfully. Have late runners at the edge of the box, take shots from range. Look for fouls and corners in their half - they're not very good at set pieces.

In defence, compress space and width. No shame in parking the bus barring a couple of pacy players ready to break. Don't bother pressing their midfield, they're too good. Let them keep possession and try to break you down. Stick Herrera on Messi - let him follow him everywhere, and pray that he has an off day.

I think we can set up like Tottenham game with lingard as false 9 and Martial and Rashford as split strikers. Pogba on top diamond while matic or mctominay on the base almost playing as a 5th player in defense with fred and Herrera on lcm and rcm resp.

This could work very well I feel.

 

[#00F]

Neither are we the whipping boys of the CL. A lot of ageing legs in that midfield of yours...

the average age of United midfield is more than Barca's.

 

[Sultan]

I think we can set up like Tottenham game with lingard as false 9 and Martial and Rashford as split strikers. Pogba on top diamond while matic or mctominay on the base almost playing as a 5th player in defense with fred and Herrera on lcm and rcm resp.

This could work very well I feel.

We'd need 12 players on the pitch to play that system.

 

[Patrick08]

We'd need 12 players on the pitch to play that system.

Correction, Than fred has to be sacrificed and pogba will have to do a significant defensive job and not stroll on the pitch.

 

[crossy1686]

the average age of United midfield is more than Barca's.

I'm not worried about that. Pogba is arguably the best midfielder in the world, Herrera covers a lot of ground going forward and back and Matic isn't expected to do much more than hold position, much like Busquets. However, how are Rakitic and Vidal going to cope with with that?

I'm not talking about average age here, that means nothing, I'm talking about the key positions/key players you have are either 30 or over. You won't sit deep and you won't be able to stop a counter attack, something has to give.

 

[Patrick08]

Pogba is arguably the best midfielder in the world,

No, he is not. Let's not go overboard.

 

[crossy1686]

No, he is not. Let's not go overboard.

On current form who is? And I did say arguably.

 

[extincti fugax hominum]

Not worried one bit really. If anything I’m rather excited. People need to remember that we’re a team who started to find their true selves. I’m not talking here about the good form we had after Ole came but about the characteristics we have as a club.


This club is all about belief, defying all the odds etc. and we’re capable of beating anyone with this mentality and never say die attitude. We showed it against PSG who I think are not a much worse team than Barcelona.


Also, Barcelona have been nothing special in the last couple of years either and are far from their prime levels(2008-2012). You have to beat the best to be the best anyway. There is no obvious favourites for the competition this year so we should be doing the best we can to go all the way to the final. We should play our games in champions league this season like we have nothing to lose. That should be our mentality going to these two games too. Chelsea-Barcelona tie from 2011-2012 season is a great example for us.


But of course we can’t get too carried away. We have to be vigilant especially in defence. PSG game at OT should be in our minds. Time for some of our players like Pogba, Martial etc. to show what they are made of too. Bring it on i say

 

[Paxi]

I said it when Ole was appointed and I'll say it again: we're winning the Champions League this season.

 

[Peyroteo]

Stay compact, don’t give Messi space between the lines, track Alba’s runs like there’s no tomorrow and foul Messi when necessary since you’ll have the advantage on set pieces.

Prepare right and they won’t run you over. You can’t stop one or two moments of genius but only way there’s a great performance is if you make it easy for them.

Barca don’t dominate games from start to finish anymore, they dominate in periods. United will have their periods where they’re on top and they’ll have their chances to score. Need to be as clinical as possible.

Bad result in the first leg like against PSG and the tie is over. Need to be focused from start to finish and the crowd to be bouncing. At Camp Nou they’ll put an unbelievable amount of pressure on the ref for every decision, the same needs to happen at Old Trafford.

 

[Seth.R]

Let’s be honest, Leo Messi can drop his shoulder once or twice and before our defenders have realised what’s happened, the game can be over.

But this is what the CL is all about, playing vs the best Europe has to offer! Give me Barcelona/PSG over the likes of Porto/Lyon all day.

We have players who can hurt them, let’s hope we can.

On a (kind of) side note - I managed to get myself to Wembley to watch Barca beat Spurs 4-2 and my God, Arthur is a player and a half. Midfield battle will be tough, Busquets is such a top player too along with Rakitic.

 

[cyberman]

Stay compact, don’t give Messi space between the lines, track Alba’s runs like there’s no tomorrow and foul Messi when necessary since you’ll have the advantage on set pieces.

Prepare right and they won’t run you over. You can’t stop one or two moments of genius but only way there’s a great performance is if you make it easy for them.

Barca don’t dominate games from start to finish anymore, they dominate in periods. United will have their periods where they’re on top and they’ll have their chances to score. Need to be as clinical as possible.

Bad result in the first leg like against PSG and the tie is over. Need to be focused from start to finish and the crowd to be bouncing. At Camp Nou they’ll put an unbelievable amount of pressure on the ref for every decision, the same needs to happen at Old Trafford.

VAR helps with the ref though. Coincidence that Spanish sides fall away as soon as it's implemented?
Yes. Yes it is.

 

[Patrick08]

On current form who is? And I did say arguably.

Midfielder involves all aspects of midfield play including goals assists and defensive control and being a midfield general. He is way off the level for latter two. Big games form always goes out of the window and are decided by who so ever makes least mistakes and pogba is mistake prone. And so is matic. It's not about mobility but intelligence coupled with mobility. What our midfield lacks is intelligence and certain players also lack mobility.

 

[Inigo Montoya]

Midfielder involves all aspects of midfield play including goals assists and defensive control and being a midfield general. He is way off the level for latter two. Big games form always goes out of the window and are decided by who so ever makes least mistakes and pogba is mistake prone. And so is matic. It's not about mobility but intelligence coupled with mobility. What our midfield lacks is intelligence and certain players also lack mobility.

Well that’s reassuring!

 

[Mibabalou]

We have to go back to 433 442 would be suicide against Barca, maybe 532 but I don’t think that gets the best of martial and Pogba who lets be serious will all need to have 9/10 games for us to have a chance.

 

[Patrick08]

Well that’s reassuring!

I am just stating the fact about why I won't classify pogba as the best midfielder in the world. We have seen all the time we have to compensate on our attacking poweress in these sort of games to play in a different way to minimize those mistakes.

 

[Bole Top]

they're vulnerable to sheer pace and physicality like they always were, but even more so today when they can't hide the ball completely from opponent like they used to do. we will lose the midfield battle regardless of setup, but we'll have plenty chances to hurt them, that I'm sure of. Rash and Lukaku in particular can hurt them badly. the thing is, all these talks about formations, tactics and form are sort of meaningless because they have Messi. if it wasn't for him, Lyon would probably get the same result they did vs City for example, because they actually played fairly well but ended up conceding 5 goals just because of him. we just need to take our chances and we'll get plenty of them.

 

[Patrick08]

At Camp Nou they’ll put an unbelievable amount of pressure on the ref for every decision, the same needs to happen at Old Trafford.

VAR will handle that I believe. Suarez won't be able to dive freely like against psg tie at home.

 

[Kapardin]

Posting a few replies from Barcaforum.com in the build-up thread where Barca fans themselves (apart from general gloating over their superiority) acknowledge potential weaknesses in their team we can exploit:

Bad draw.
This is not Mourinho's United, and anyone who has been watching PL lately will attest to that.

The only concern for me is how weak and slow we are in midfield. Busi, Raki and Arthur are not the most athletic players. As far as technical ability we are far superior to them in every aspect

Everyone here underestimate United yes we have the better individuals but we have an idiot manager, For me its a 50/50.

In no way should Barça be considered favourites against Utd. Valverde is kryptonite and we are deprived of our superpowers with the Basque dwarf on the touchline.

Those replying to this immediately cry them down, but atleast there are a few who do think of us as a competent opponent as opposed to a "joke team daring to challenge mighty Barca". And more than a few who don't seem to rate Valverde for some reasons.

 

[Nikelesh Reddy]

We have to go back to 433 442 would be suicide against Barca, maybe 532 but I don’t think that gets the best of martial and Pogba who lets be serious will all need to have 9/10 games for us to have a chance.

4-3-3 with Matic,Herrera and Pogba in midfield...I would play a front 3 of Lukaku,Rashford and Lingard...Rashford and Lukaku can really trouble the Barca defence...

 

[MalcolmTucker]

If we're clinical it's very feasible that we can beat them - I watch plenty of Barcelona and they give gilt-edged chances to even lowly La Liga teams a few times a match. They've flopped in the CL in recent seasons so if we frustrate them, we stand a chance but it really depends on what shooting boots Rashford/Lukaku have on, as we saw against PSG and against Arsenal, the difference really is our finishing (Martial is a bit more consistent in this regard).

It favours us that we're underdogs, soak up their pressure then strike quickly on the break.

 

[Sandikan]

Can see us setting up similarly to the psg home game. We'd just need to hope injuries didn't totally derail the plan like then.

Lingard will be essential. Best energy and pressing in the team.

 

[Patrick08]

4-3-3 with Matic,Herrera and Pogba in midfield...I would play a front 3 of Lukaku,Rashford and Lingard...Rashford and Lukaku can really trouble the Barca defence...

I am not sure about lukaku, lingard Martial and Rasford up front are more of a threat on counter than lukaku who doesn't run in behind often and is not good enough to press or hold the ball with his back to goal. I would keep him on the bench or make an impact sub.

 

[Paddy1983]

Barcelna Fan here.

Messi obviously is the key for Barca but if you watch barcelona the second most influentual player believe it or not is Jordi Alba everything goes through messi and he links up brilliantly with him.

Question? Who will mark Alba for Utd?
I cant see utd beating barca but hope for a good game with plenty of goals. Barca will always give away chances and if utd take them they have a chance.

 

[DaGOAT]

Yeah, no he's not, that's an outright outlandish statement if ever I saw one. You can't base anyone's ability on playing Madrid this season, they're dreadful.
Barcelona's midfield is ageing, like the rest of the team. You're obviously a Barcelona fan so there's no point in continuing this debate but your team is no where near as good as you like to think they are. You play in a league where your only competition is a team that can't decide which manager they want to appoint this month and you've played no one worth noting so far this season. Your arrogance will be your downfall, much like PSG. There's a reason why four English teams are in the Champions League still.

You're right, I haven't watched them much. Too much sideways passing and 'get the ball to Messi' was just too boring to watch in the end. You best hope that he never retires and isn't injured for the United tie otherwise you're in a world of trouble.

Yup, he sure is. Dominated Luka Modric vs Real Madrid multiple times, who is better than anything your team can offer AND dominated almost every other opponent. Arthur is one of the best, but you wouldn't know that as you haven't seen him dominate almost every opponent's midfield, in the league and as well as in the CL. The only outlandish thing is your ignorant words about Arthur as you haven't watched him enough to form a conclusion.
Don't bother writing about him if you don't know a thing. The fact the you have since mentioned Vidal in your posts again show you ignorance as he is not a starter at Barca - he is a sub who's usually subbed in around the 70th minute or so. So mentioning him in the way you do makes no sense.

Barca's midfield is ageing, but you didn't write that originally. You wrote the back line. How about making up your mind and not changing the premise of the discussion, because that's just lazy and makes you seem more uninformed that you already do. Barca's whole squad is ageing and yet they've only lost very few matched and dominate most opposition. They are experienced champions. My money is on them beating United because they simply have a better team overall with more quality, including Lionel Messi.

There is no arrogance. The only arrogance is you hyping up the English sides for the first time in what.. 10 years, because the Spanish clubs have been vastly better in Europe for a lot of years. That's a fact. Am I supposed to be impressed by English clubs finally showing some quality after so many years? Get a grip.

Also, Barca destroying you in 2011 and less so in 2009 (but still winning) has more to do with Pep's Barca being vastly better than anything United could come up with. Tactically and technically United were outclassed. It's very simple. As Ferguson said: "In my time as a manager, I would say they're the best team we've faced"(...)No one has given us a hiding like that.".

You sound like a semi delusional United fan who can't accept that you were played of the park by Messi and co.
And now you're having a hard time dealing with the fact that despite Barca not being at the level of Pep's Barca they are still the favourite against your club.