Chelsea 2016/17 - Very Content

[Kentonio]

Pogba's long range passing is class and it's no point discussion if you think Luiz is better, even more ridiculous is saying Luiz is better passer than Fabregas.

Luiz doesn't have anything like the passing range of Fabregas, but despite that he is a REALLY talented passer of the ball. Some of his long range passing is absolutely mouthwatering. There were a couple this season where he just threaded inch perfect passes through to Costa from about 60 yards, that were outstanding.


I don't watch United often enough to compare with Pogba (and like I say Luiz has nowhere near Fabregas' range) but I can't think of another CB I'd rather have when it comes to distribution.

 

[roonster09]

Luiz doesn't have anything like the passing range of Fabregas, but despite that he is a REALLY talented passer of the ball. Some of his long range passing is absolutely mouthwatering. There were a couple this season where he just threaded inch perfect passes through to Costa from about 60 yards, that were outstanding.


I don't watch United often enough to compare with Pogba (and like I say Luiz has nowhere near Fabregas' range) but I can't think of another CB I'd rather have when it comes to distribution.

I'm a big fan of Luiz, I agree there isn't a CB in PL who is better on the ball than Luiz but saying he is better passer than Pogba and Fabregas is nonsense.

 

[Kentonio]

I'm a big fan of Luiz, I agree there isn't a CB in PL who is better on the ball than Luiz but saying he is better passer than Pogba and Fabregas is nonsense.

Like I said, I really havent watched Pogba enough to comment. Completely agree regarding Fab though. I don't think there's anyone in England who can do what Fabregas can do with a ball.

 

[Orc]

Treble_Winning is by far the best troll on this forum.

At first I thought he was being a 100% serious, highly deluded fan but I now know he's trolling. Can't call him a great troll because at least some of what he says has to be believable. The things he posts are so outlandish that he gives himself away.

 

[Stocar]

Making good passes from the middle and final third requires more skill than doing that from defense. Less space and time make it much harder. Pogba has technical ability and playmaking ingenuity to make some pinpoint and lucid passes in the final third.

 

[Synco]

Making good passes from the middle and final third requires more skill than doing that from defense. Less space and time make it much harder. Pogba has technical ability and playmaking ingenuity to make some pinpoint and lucid passes in the final third.

Definitely. Ball playing centre backs like Luiz, Piqué, Boateng, Hummels are fantastic passers, but they rely on a starting point behind the thick of the midfield battle.

The higher up the pitch a playmaker operates, the more he is subjected to pressure from the opponent's defensive formation. So the better overall footballer he is, the higher up he can play. That requires not only great passing, but also shielding the ball, maintaining the overview over the whole pitch and getting into open positions - all while being under heavy pressure, and with only a minimum of errors allowed.

Kroos is the player able to play constant metronome-like distribution in the highest zones of all current midfielders. Pogba is not that far behind, but it's hard to say where exactly his ceiling is because of United's limited CM play. Imo, he looked best this season as a DLP in a midfield two for France & United, smartly picking his spots to move into advanced positions.

 

[Bepi]

it would have been great to have signed him up as an assistant to Jose (similar to the Queiroz role) after his Italy stint. But sadly Chelsea got to him first.

At first I thought he was being a 100% serious, highly deluded fan but I now know he's trolling. Can't call him a great troll because at least some of what he says has to be believable. The things he posts are so outlandish that he gives himself away.

Such a constant and sustained delusion is bizarre at best and I really hope for his own sake he is just trolling.

 

[Logical Fan]

If Conte wins it, can he be considered one of the top managers in the EPL?

 

[balaks]

If Conte wins it, can he be considered one of the top managers in the EPL?

I'd say he already would be considered as one of the top managers in EPL tbh.

 

[Treble_Winning]

If Conte wins it, can he be considered one of the top managers in the EPL?

For him to be ranked on the same level as Mourinho, he will need to win league titles in four countries. If he wins the PL, he would be halfway there (though he would still have zero CL titles to Mourinho's two).

 

[CechMate1]

Some interesting stats regarding Ivanovic

In 9 years with Chelsea, Ivanovic managed 68 goals and assists (34 each). That's over 7.5 per season coming from a RB/CB



In Steven Gerrard's last five seasons at LFC, he scored 28 non-penalty goals.

Guess how many Ivanovic scored over that same period?

28.



fecking beast

 

[SambaBoy]

Why not? How else are you supposed to judge passing ability of a player playing in a deep position compared to one playing well forward.

I have never rated Pogba's passing that much. For me, his shooting and dribbling are world class but passing is only good to average.

If you think his shooting is 'world class' but his passing only good to average then that suggests you haven't watched him that often.

 

[VP89]

If Conte wins it, can he be considered one of the top managers in the EPL?

I would say that's a logical conclusion, logical fan.

 

[AshfordLad]

I'm a big fan of Luiz, I agree there isn't a CB in PL who is better on the ball than Luiz but saying he is better passer than Pogba and Fabregas is nonsense.

Show me where I said Luiz can pass better than Fabregas. Either you genuinely cant understand simple english or making stuff up to help with your argument which does not have legs to stand on.

 

[Supermonkey]

I think if Conte wins the league it cements his position as one among the very elite.

Unlike messi with other players, I dont think any manager sits at his own table

 

[salford_]

I think if Conte wins the league it cements his position as one among the very elite.

Unlike messi with other players, I dont think any manager sits at his own table

He is only 47. Has years ahead of him, will be one of the best managers walking the planet soon enough. He already is IMO

 

[salford_]

Hahaha lol it seems like Chelsea fans are losing the plot and getting extremely blinkered as a result of their recent success. Luiz is an awful passer. He is also an awful defender. The only strength he has is his ability to shoot from long distances which means that he sometimes scores spectacular goals. Included in this would be free kicks. However scoring long range goals is hardly a priority when assessing the quality of defenders. And Luiz is a shocking defender.

His defensive flaws are why Conte has deemed it necessary to play both Kante and Matic as DMs, sacrificing Fabregas. As such, Luiz is a total liability, so much so that extra cover has to be brought in to mask his foibles and protect him.

In picking a defender I would rather have someone stable and solid, than someone eccentric and error prone. Even if that means that he can sometimes score great goals. Goal scoring is a job best left for attacking players not centre backs.

Remember Luiz was not even Chelsea's first or second choice. They couldn't sign any of their targets and so they panicked and bought Luiz (and this was after Mourinho sold him for huge money in one of the best transfer deals of all time, they totally mugged PSG). It seems they are still interested in Van Dijk which just shows how much belief they have in Luiz.

Youre trolling. This season Luiz has been one of the best CB in the prem. I know it may be hard to believe, His passing is also very good. A lot of people will be eating their words about Luiz this season, his performances have been excellent on the whole

 

[salford_]

Treble_Winning is by far the best troll on this forum.

He is. I think he is duncan castles, because he is way too pro mourinho

 

[Theafonis]

Seems there's a lot of Chelsea supporters in the newbs

 

[Damien]

Seems there's a lot of Chelsea supporters in the newbs

In the newbs (from those that filled out 'supports' bit):
243 Liverpool fans (liverpool/lfc)
162 Chelsea fans (chelsea)
152 Arsenal fans (arsenal)
82 Manchester City fans (man city/manchester city/mcfc)
40 Ajax fans (ajax)

 

[Theafonis]

In the newbs (from those that filled out 'supports' bit):
243 Liverpool fans (liverpool/lfc)
162 Chelsea fans (chelsea)
152 Arsenal fans (arsenal)
82 Manchester City fans (man city/manchester city/mcfc)
40 Ajax fans (ajax)

Ajax is the outlier in that

 

[Damien]

Ajax is the outlier in that

Quite a few joined around the time LVG became our manager. Numbers grew since. See quite a few around (including this thread)

 

[duffer]

Quite a few joined around the time LVG became our manager. Numbers grew since. See quite a few around (including this thread)

The Dutch are known for loving hilarious thread titles. You're welcome!

 

[Supermonkey]

He is only 47. Has years ahead of him, will be one of the best managers walking the planet soon enough. He already is IMO

I cant think of a manager who is much better than Conte.

 

[roonster09]

Show me where I said Luiz can pass better than Fabregas. Either you genuinely cant understand simple english or making stuff up to help with your argument which does not have legs to stand on.

Ok you said Luiz is as good passer of the ball as Fabregas which is ridiculous and much much better than Pogba which is even more ridiculous.

 

[Claude Makélélé]

He is. I think he is duncan castles, because he is way too pro mourinho

Not exactly. United fans (at least almost all of them) do not love Mourinho, given his "performance" with Porto at Old Trafford and fierce competition between his old Chelsea vs Fergie's United then.
I think he was celebrating when the Chosen One David Moyes was selected as Man United manager then, and slamming Mourinho at the same time. The situation has changed since Jose is his team manager now. Most of his posts recently just show how he is jealous to other teams' success. I am not going to notice them anymore.

 

[roonster09]

Not exactly. United fans (at least almost all of them) do not love Mourinho, given his "performance" with Porto at Old Trafford and fierce competition between his old Chelsea vs Fergie's United then.
I think he was celebrating when the Chosen One David Moyes was selected as Man United manager then, and slamming Mourinho at the same time. The situation has changed since Jose is his team manager now. Most of his posts recently just show how he is jealous to other teams' success. I am not going to notice them anymore.

You are wrong. Just search "Jose Mourinho" in the thread title and see how he was rated and loved here before his second time at Chelsea.

 

[BonkersIam]

Not exactly. United fans (at least almost all of them) do not love Mourinho, given his "performance" with Porto at Old Trafford and fierce competition between his old Chelsea vs Fergie's United then.
I think he was celebrating when the Chosen One David Moyes was selected as Man United manager then, and slamming Mourinho at the same time. The situation has changed since Jose is his team manager now. Most of his posts recently just show how he is jealous to other teams' success. I am not going to notice them anymore.

how can so much shoite be written is so few words?

 

[Claude Makélélé]

You are wrong. Just search "Jose Mourinho" in the thread title and see how he was rated and loved here before his second time at Chelsea.

I will be so happy if I am wrong. Rival fans had rated and loved our manager even when he wasn't comfirmed as our manager yet. That's fantastic. I'm happy for him too.

 

[BonkersIam]

Ok you said Luiz is as good passer of the ball as Fabregas which is ridiculous and much much better than Pogba which is even more ridiculous.

Both Luiz and John Terry are excellent long diagonal passers of the ball...... most probably better than Fabregas at it as they have to do it more out of defence

 

[roonster09]

I will be so happy if I am wrong. Rival fans had rated and loved our manager even when he wasn't comfirmed as our manager yet. That's fantastic. I'm happy for him too.

Jose for whatever reason was loved by Manutd fans, maybe because he was good with Ferguson or never shit talked about ManUtd or he wound up Liverpool.

 

[BonkersIam]

If Conte wins it, can he be considered one of the top managers in the EPL?

see what happens in the 2nd season when its more difficult to retain according to managers

 

[BonkersIam]

Jose for whatever reason was loved by Manutd fans, maybe because he was good with Ferguson or never shit talked about ManUtd or he wound up Liverpool.

and also, there has never been a 'hatred' type of rivalry between the 2 clubs, the supporters and the players....so it was easier for Utd supporters to accept him at Chelsea even though he turned them into footballing rivals

 

[roonster09]

and also, there has never been a 'hatred' type of rivalry between the 2 clubs, the supporters and the players....so it was easier for Utd supporters to accept him at Chelsea even though he turned them into footballing rivals

Maybe the reason too.

 

[unbeatabla]

Both Luiz and John Terry are excellent long diagonal passers of the ball...... most probably better than Fabregas at it as they have to do it more out of defence

I still prefer Fabregas' long passing over Luiz' because it's more accurate. Luiz will give you a few great passes almost every game, but he also gets it wrong a few times every game. Fabregas' diagonals reach their intended target more often. Terry plays good, accurate diagonals with both feet, but he doesn't have the spectacular passes, that Fabregas and Luiz can play, in his locker.

As for Pogba, he is one of the best long passers in the game at the moment imo. I love watching him play long diagonals. They always seem so effortless and are very accurate. Definetely above Fabregas in that category. But the spaniard has better short passing, better vision and is better at playing the final ball.

 

[BonkersIam]

I still prefer Fabregas' long passing over Luiz' because it's more accurate. Luiz will give you a few great passes almost every game, but he also gets it wrong a few times every game. Fabregas' diagonals reach their intended target more often. Terry plays good, accurate diagonals with both feet, but he doesn't have the spectacular passes, that Fabregas and Luiz can play, in his locker.

As for Pogba, he is one of the best long passers in the game at the moment imo. I love watching him play long diagonals. They always seem so effortless and are very accurate. Definetely above Fabregas in that category. But the spaniard has better short passing, better vision and is better at playing the final ball.

since when does Fabregas do long passes out of defence....never.
You under rate JT's passing...the long diagonal (as you said with both feet) is spectacular

 

[unbeatabla]

since when does Fabregas do long passes out of defence....never.
You under rate JT's passing...the long diagonal (as you said with both feet) is spectacular

I said nothing about passing out of defence, obviously Luiz and Terry do that more often than Cesc. But the initial argument was about their passing in general, more accurately their long passing and I don't agree with you there. To back up my claims I've looked up some stats and they tell you that Fabregas plays a higher number of long passes per 90 minutes this season than Terry and Luiz, while still maintaining a higher accuarcy, which is even more impressive, considering that he plays in midfield, where he doesn't have as much time on the ball, as those two have.

I didn't mean to belittle Terry's passing, but it's safer than David Luiz'. He doesn't try the spectacular through balls Luiz sometimes plays from deep, but in return has a higher percentage of successfull long passes than the Brazilian.

 

[BonkersIam]

I said nothing about passing out of defence, obviously Luiz and Terry do that more often than Cesc. But the initial argument was about their passing in general, more accurately their long passing and I don't agree with you there. To back up my claims I've looked up some stats and they tell you that Fabregas plays a higher number of long passes per 90 minutes this season than Terry and Luiz, while still maintaining a higher accuarcy, which is even more impressive, considering that he plays in midfield, where he doesn't have as much time on the ball, as those two have.

I didn't mean to belittle Terry's passing, but it's safer than David Luiz'. He doesn't try the spectacular through balls Luiz sometimes plays from deep, but in return has a higher percentage of successfull long passes than the Brazilian.

what is a long pass....more than 10, 20, 30 yards?
I am talking about the proper long ball which unless he is in the defensive third constantly he wouldnt do.
We all know Fabregas's favourite pass is the lob over the top from around the centre circle looking for Costa.
But at the end of the day its great to have several players who can make good passes and we are basically splitting hairs for different scenarios

 

[Treble_Winning]

Not exactly. United fans (at least almost all of them) do not love Mourinho, given his "performance" with Porto at Old Trafford and fierce competition between his old Chelsea vs Fergie's United then.
I think he was celebrating when the Chosen One David Moyes was selected as Man United manager then, and slamming Mourinho at the same time. The situation has changed since Jose is his team manager now. Most of his posts recently just show how he is jealous to other teams' success. I am not going to notice them anymore.

1) I thought that being pro-Mourinho and pro-UTD was allowed on RedCafe? Or have the rules changed? People constantly going on about how shit we are, how average we are, how we should be hoping for Spurs to beat Liverpool cos we have zero chance of catching them (despite being 5 points behind, with 14 games left) and so on. People talking about how Klopp was great, and now talking about how Conte is great. Isn't it permissible to offer a contrarian view?

2) I don't even know who Duncan Castles is. I'm definitely not him.

3) I am not jealous of any other team. I don't think any UTD fans are. Even if Conte wins the league this season he would have 4 career titles spread across 2 countries - Mourinho has 8 spread across 4 countries. Chelsea would have 5 PL titles compared with 13 for UTD. Why would there be a need to be jealous? And don't even mention Liverpool or Arsenal, lol

4) I don't hate Chelsea or Arsenal. I just think they're over rated. As for Liverpool yes I do hate them - and also think they're over rated. Wouldn't you agree?

 

[BonkersIam]

1) I thought that being pro-Mourinho and pro-UTD was allowed on RedCafe? Or have the rules changed? People constantly going on about how shit we are, how average we are, how we should be hoping for Spurs to beat Liverpool cos we have zero chance of catching them (despite being 5 points behind, with 14 games left) and so on. People talking about how Klopp was great, and now talking about how Conte is great. Isn't it permissible to offer a contrarian view?

2) I don't even know who Duncan Castles is. I'm definitely not him.

3) I am not jealous of any other team. I don't think any UTD fans are. Even if Conte wins the league this season he would have 4 career titles spread across 2 countries - Mourinho has 8 spread across 4 countries. Chelsea would have 5 PL titles compared with 13 for UTD. Why would there be a need to be jealous? And don't even mention Liverpool or Arsenal, lol

4) I don't hate Chelsea or Arsenal. I just think they're over rated. As for Liverpool yes I do hate them - and also think they're over rated. Wouldn't you agree?

are Utd in danger of being over rated by you as well unless they start winning "majors" soon?