Disrespecting the big man
Chelsea 2022/2023 | THIS IS LAST YEARS THREAD YOU NUMPTIES
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
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Don’t think we do sadly. Palace could charge us whatever they want. I could see a scenario where he cements himself as a starter for England and impresses at the WC and then Chelsea go in for him next summer when Silva is likely gone.
We have a 'first refusal clause' for Guehi, whatever the feck that even means. I believe it's something like if Palace accept a bid from someone else for Guehi, we can then match it and they are forced to accept. But even without such clause why wouldn't they accept an equal bid anyway and let the player himself decide where he wants to go? The only thing it really prevents is getting dragged into a bidding war but other than that it's such a pointless clause that I don't even know why they exist in the first place. Sucks for us because Guehi seems to have all the makings of a great CB so having a buy-back on him would have been nice.
As for the ongoing CB hunt I'd like to think at this point it's Fofana or bust. No point going after the likes of Adam Webster, let alone Harry Maguire, just because we need more bodies in the CB department. If the current top target can't be signed we might as well save the money for future windows and play Chalobah instead who looks likely to head out on loan if a new CB comes in. I very much doubt someone like Adam Webster would in any way be an upgrade over Trevoh Chalobah.
At this point I'd say Fofana is about 50/50 whether he signs or not.
Cheers. Shame about the injuries and that frustrating cycle.
It was actually crazy the amount of times we were paired with Barcelona over a decade (12 times in 12 years between 2000 and 2012) but never ever ran into Real Madrid until 2021.
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I know he's not homegrown, but why not spend 60M on Jonathan David instead? Great presser, scores goals, can't imagine he'd cost any more than that. Not a winger, but if it's 4-4-3-3 then Havertz as a false 9 with Sterling and David looking to score goals is still better than playing Gordon on the wing in a 4-2-3-1 and Chelsea still need to buy a 9 to do that.
this is greatA new regime and they stop getting league 2 teams in the cup dates. For shame
Finally a true lampard replacement
The only way it makes any sort of sense at all is if he's being bought to be an attacking wingback. There's a case to be made that he's a better fit for the position than CHO.
We've been trying to use RLC there recently but the problem is he can only underlap from RWB instead of overlap which has the cascading effect of forcing Mount out wide - where he is far less effective compared to the half-space. With Gordon at RWB potentially this wouldn't be an issue. Or of course we could just play Reece there in his best position.
Basically though I think this potential move more than anything indicates that Tuchel doesn't really rate CHO and wants to have a second dynamic option at RWB. I still find it more than slightly bizarre, but given how much we spent to have another option at LWB I guess it's indicative of where our priorities are. And in fairness, Gordon fits a similar profile as a young(ish) PL-proven player with room to grow and the ability to play multiple positions.
Thus concludes my spin-zone - and obviously with all that said the fee being bandied about is ludicrous.
Brighton are doing well with an inverted fullback. I guess if you sold Chillwell or if he's sort of an "it's a bonus when he's healthy but can't count on him guy" it's not insane.
But based on the Raphinha rumours and getting rid of CBs without replacement, I'm assuming the plan is to move to 4 at the back and play Gordon and Sterling as wingers.
I think it's closer 70/30. maybe even higher. He is very good and will thrive at Chelsea in my opinion.... Hopefully we have a replacement in mind.
I have seen quite a lot of Chelsea fans complaining about how Fofana is acting towards Leicester City, complaining about how Lukaku was slagged off by our fan base for sulking and being petulant, while admiring Fofana for his stance against Leicester. I do not see this as Fofana acting in the same mannerism towards Leicester as Lukaku did for us. Leicester is not allowing him to move, therefore he is pushing for it. It is not the same as what Lukaku did, being a virus simply for not getting his way and then wanting to move. We let Lukaku move, we did not get in the way even though we dropped almost 100m on him. Leicester is trying their best not to allow Fofana leave unless for a world record fee.
The kid is young, yes he is not worth the 80M, however who really is? The market is crazy, Todd is throwing money around like he is at a strip club. I guess he does have 1.5B to invest as part of the contract to buy Chelsea. I can't complain, however Gordon for 60M makes no sense to me. Fofana in my opinion is worth only around 50m-60m, but Leicester has us in a bind currently due to the sanctions. We lost Rudiger and Christensen (not bothered much by this loss, weak mentally). Rudiger however left a massive hole in the team and we really need Fofana after the whole Kounde debacle.
I can't be mad at Todd's spending, I love his ambition and he will learn the ropes quickly. Let's see how we do with the additions of Fofana and Aubemayang. We need another CM badly, but I highly doubt we will be getting one this window. I think we are waiting for the return of Declan Rice next season for this position. There is an aura around Declan Rice screaming out for his return to Chelsea and he will be hammering down on the doors of West Ham next summer pushing for the move.
With Kante and Jorginho being out of contract next year, we will need him. Declan I believe is Tuchel's dream signing to really anchor this team.
The kid is young, yes he is not worth the 80M, however who really is? The market is crazy, Todd is throwing money around like he is at a strip club. I guess he does have 1.5B to invest as part of the contract to buy Chelsea. I can't complain, however Gordon for 60M makes no sense to me. Fofana in my opinion is worth only around 50m-60m, but Leicester has us in a bind currently due to the sanctions. We lost Rudiger and Christensen (not bothered much by this loss, weak mentally). Rudiger however left a massive hole in the team and we really need Fofana after the whole Kounde debacle.
I can't be mad at Todd's spending, I love his ambition and he will learn the ropes quickly. Let's see how we do with the additions of Fofana and Aubemayang. We need another CM badly, but I highly doubt we will be getting one this window. I think we are waiting for the return of Declan Rice next season for this position. There is an aura around Declan Rice screaming out for his return to Chelsea and he will be hammering down on the doors of West Ham next summer pushing for the move.
With Kante and Jorginho being out of contract next year, we will need him. Declan I believe is Tuchel's dream signing to really anchor this team.
Have you really? Where?
Our transfers for first team are pretty good till now. Why we need to worry about money. Management knew where we are with FFP.
Management put their weight behind tuchel otherwise lukaku won't be allowed to go so as Werner. That s 150 mn worth of investment. Now tuchel picking his own personals with consultation with our youth team head Neil bath.Gordon was tuchel and Neil bath choice for wide player who is hard working,has pace and ability to beat players with dribbling.
Now they want to renew tuchel s contract and want to add first team members of tuchel s choices because they want to build the team in tuchel s imagination for longer term.
It will be great if we signed all three fofana,Auba and Gordon. No need to think about money in this window. If we finished this window successfully we will be good and not need to invest major in future Windows.
Looks like another good youngster joining the ranks. Arsen Zakharyan from Dynamo Moscow. Looks like a very promising young player and for €15m that's a “do it" for me. Looks a better prospect than Gordon even.
Big question mark will be he is Russian and we will be the first team to give money to Russian team after start of Ukraine war if this transfer happened.
How pl and government will allow Russian to be in England. I don't think it will happen . Will sign and may be loaned to some other team in Europe.Will see.
Yes, the comments section on the last article WAGNH has on Fofana, and on other articles also. (Id find the articles again and post them here but its 4:20 am currently and Ill be more bothered later to do so if you want them lol). Lots on Twitter.
Sorry if my message appeared as me being against us spending money. Not at all, I like it and Todd will only get better at it with experience. However, Gordon at 60m still seems too much to me. If he ends up being World Class then id love to stand corrected.
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I thought he was Armenian but chose to play for Russia before the war started? Similar to how Diego Costa played for Spain while being Brazilian. Emerson and Jorginho playing for Italy too, while both also being Brazilian.
Zakharyan 15m, Casadei 15m, Chukwuemeka 15m, Slonina 15m. Total spent €60m for 18-19 year old youngsters. Love the strategy. Maybe Todd is trying to build something like NA draft prospects system? It's like he's signing 1st round prospects who will become team core in the future.
I know 60 mn is too much for gordon but 60 mn is only with add ons with certain categories. If those are met then he must be one of important members of the team.
If we paid 60 mn who is young and important member of team then so be it.
This is exactly how he got out of St Etienne when Leicester wanted him. He kicked up a fuss, handed in a transfer request to push the move through to Leicester, and he's doing the same here again.
So if we get him, we shouldn't be surprised if he kicks up a stink again in a couple of years because he wants to go to Barcelona or Real Madrid.
He sounds like a huge cnut.
He does to be honest, but he's one hell of a player. The same Leicester fans who were loving it when he was doing it to force a move to them are now sick of him and think he's everything that's wrong with modern football. At least with Chelsea, if he comes, we know what we're getting.
I think the 4ATB move is definitely on the cards at some point - the problem is we can't really do that with both Jorginho and Thiago Silva in the team as neither can realistically cover the ground they'd have to in a 4-3-3.
The domino to fall for me would be Rice or even De Jong - a mobile deep-lying CM who is comfortable dropping deeper to maintain the now-typical 3-2 base when out of possession.
It's all well and good trying to hoover up some of the best youngsters around. But they need to have a path to the first team.
You already have the best academy in the country, but you can probably name a full team of highly rated youngsters you have lost in the past year or 2 alone because you can't find space for them.
Im not sure this new strategy will be any different from the past, you'll just be using the selling of these to fund new big expenseive purchases in the future, so in that sense it's just the same strategy the likes of yourselves and City have used the past 5 years or so.
You say that but we’ve had Mount and James in the team for years now. Loftus-Cheek and CHO have been around the team for years too. Integrated Chalobah last season and looks like Gallagher and Broja this season. I hear you about the lost talents, and I have been annoyed/critical about this more than most, there has been mistakes but at the same time we seem to be producing talent at a quicker rate the first team can realistically accommodate.
We’re averaging around 2 new academy players integrated per season over the last few years. So I don’t think it’s fair to say Chelsea have just used the academy to fund expensive purchases. I don’t think any top team in the league has integrated more academy players than Chelsea in the last 5 years, including Arsenal.
Yeah, the kid is basically stuck as things stand.
I wonder if fifa would grant an exemption to players that young for changing their international affiliation given the circumstances?
Yes, he’s Armenian
Of course, I doubt you would hear much from him about the subject at all until he’s safely out of the country.
And yeah, we play a TON of academy grads compared to other top 6 sides. And we should have kept more, like Tomori. The Boehly led regime will have an eye to integrating younger talent even better, and using buyback clauses more effectively in some cases.
Farm systems and homegrown talent are key to success in baseball.
I agree, stacking young players bought in at 18+ (particularly in the case of the recent young midfielder signings where they roughly occupy the same position on the pitch) won't end well, especially when it's an area of the pitch where experienced players are generally trusted more.
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We will see. When they have been good enough we have played them young. If after a few years, and maybe a quality loan they get to be 23, 24 and still aren’t good enough for the main team, then get them moves with actual buyback clauses in place. If only one of the talents pans out to be a high quality starter we would still be way ahead of the game financially. But whether it works super well depends on how we use buybacks. Having our own ex players quoted back to us for 70 to 80 m, or not available at all is getting old, for sure.
The real question is who the person advising on these moves is, and what kind of plan they would have in place if/when they take over that executive director spot.
Also, the takeover of the club, the technical clearing of all debt, and a lot of financial tricks that allows you to perform, means you can get away with doing things in terms of accumulating talent on a large scale that you might not have the freedom to do in future windows.
So any of that “new ownership grace period” they don’t take advantage of is wasted.
The real question is who the person advising on these moves is, and what kind of plan they would have in place if/when they take over that executive director spot.
Also, the takeover of the club, the technical clearing of all debt, and a lot of financial tricks that allows you to perform, means you can get away with doing things in terms of accumulating talent on a large scale that you might not have the freedom to do in future windows.
So any of that “new ownership grace period” they don’t take advantage of is wasted.
If the Superleague fails to go through (which we all assume it will), then this becomes less of a concern each passing year. LC , like Etienne, apparently promised they would be willing to move him on at a good price if a bigger opportunity arose. His chief complaint is that he doesn’t feel they are honoring that.
Now, if Chelsea sign him and put him
On substantial wages for a 6 year contract. CAN a team like Barca come in for him? My understanding is that Fofanas peoples complaint is “reasonable profit”. And that more than doubling their money should meet the agreement he feels was in place. For Barca and Madrid to reach that same threshold if he plays well enough over the next year or two, they would have to come up with sums and wages they simply don’t have anymore
The old formula of Barca or Real coming in with massive bids to take whoever they wanted may be gone. La Liga is a struggling to stay afloat league. The “come take a pay cut to play in a dying league because the guy your grandfather loved played here” strategy has less of a draw every year.
Madrid and Barca riddled the hull of their own ship for years. They used their weight to strangle the league for as large a revenue percentage as possible, and now they are feeling the effects.
I might be wrong but I thought that Mount & James if my memory serves me right benefited from Lampard using them when you guys had the transfer ban. That helped establish them firmly in the first team, and obviously they've continue to flourish under Tuchel.
You just wonder if you didn't have that transfer ban then and could have spent another summer signing players, if they would have been afforded the same opportunity?
For instance, this summer the same scenario you would have played Chalobah & Colwill. Instead, you go out and sign Koulibaly & Fofana and push them both out on loan its looking like. I also think Broja, CHO and Gallagher will move on, if not this summer probably next.
Why you think Gallagher and broja go. They are in squad and they have to stake their claim. Merit only matters. Tuchel seemed that way. Gallagher need to up his game then only establish himself in first team. We didn't bought any one for his position.
He get start last match. May be tomorrow again. Mount established well but he earned it under tuchel and sidelined pulisic and Werner. That s always the case in big clubs.
For CHO he went out for 3 months injured. He himself said that. Now he only have to claim his place in squad. If he feel not ready then have to go on loan.
For chalobah he has competition for place if we signed fofana. At big club you have to expect that. And you want us to go full season depend on 19 year old colwill who has one year experience of championship.
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Just a personal opinion. I'm not sure Gallagher will suit the way Tuchel plays, so will struggle to establish himself as first choice. Think you'll go big on a couple of midfielders next summer as well, maybe back in for De Jong and Rice.Why you think Gallagher and broja go. They are in squad and they have to stake their claim. Merit only matters. Tuchel seemed that way. Gallagher need to up his game then only establish himself in first team. We didn't bought any one for his position.
He get start last match. May be tomorrow again. Mount established well but he earned it under tuchel and sidelined pulisic and Werner. That s always the case in big clubs.
For CHO he went out for 3 months injured. He himself said that. Now he only have to claim his place in squad. If he feel not ready then have to go on loan.
For chalobah he has competition for place if we signed fofana. At big club you have to expect that. And you want us to go full season depend on 19 year old colwill who has one year experience of championship.
Likewise with Broja. I think he's liked his taste of first team football so will want more and to play more often. You are signing Auba, and I can see you going in for someone like Osimhen next summer.
It's already getting mentioned that Chalobah will go on loan when you sign Fofana.
And you laugh at relying on Colwill after 1 season in the Championship, but the likes of Mount & James didn't have much more?
FOFANA!!
Agreed to a certain extent, but it's mainly because we play with two no.6s currently. We aren't even seeing the best of Mount because both he and Gallagher are proper No.8s, a bit like Lampard. He's got a ton of attributes that fit the team but his touch isn't the best, so he'll either need to develop it or wait until we move to a midfield 3. Either way he's essentially taking up Saul's spot so is an improvement.
That statement is not true. More than 20 years ago there was a vote of the professional teams in Spain, there they had to decide whether to sell the rights jointly or individually. And the vote was won by the option to be sold individually. So it is not true that Barcelona and Real Madrid have caused that.
And in the penultimate sale of television rights, it was decided to raise the income of all the teams except Barcelona and Real Madrid so that the difference would be smaller.
Paying a record fee for a guy who played 7 games last season and has zero international caps. It's madness.
Boehly going to have one hell of a transfer hangover in 12 months probably.
Boehly going to have one hell of a transfer hangover in 12 months probably.
There is nothing wrong to send 19 yr old kid on loan to get pl experience. Central Defender in pl not a easy job like attack in our team s perspective. So mount and Reece comparison not valid.And Reece built like a tank at that age.Just a personal opinion. I'm not sure Gallagher will suit the way Tuchel plays, so will struggle to establish himself as first choice. Think you'll go big on a couple of midfielders next summer as well, maybe back in for De Jong and Rice.
Likewise with Broja. I think he's liked his taste of first team football so will want more and to play more often. You are signing Auba, and I can see you going in for someone like Osimhen next summer.
It's already getting mentioned that Chalobah will go on loan when you sign Fofana.
And you laugh at relying on Colwill after 1 season in the Championship, but the likes of Mount & James didn't have much more?
I will rather send young kid like colwill on loan than keep him on bench to waste his developing time.
No team will bring in 19 year old and force him to play main cb in pl for top 4 team with no plan to bring in players.
Chalobah last season second choice behind Christensen but played more than him. I don't think he will go unless he forced the move. I understood his urgency for playing time in world cup year. If he want to go then we will let him go only on loan.
Broja wont go anywhere. Auba won't block his playing time. We will see. He will get enough chances to prove himself. And I think he will take striker position his own in few months time if he stayed away from niggling injuries. Kid is quality. He is little bit unlucky with injuries in pre-season and again after two games. He has all the quality what tuchel expected from striker.
It’s a gross overpay whichever way we look at it but we’re getting an exciting talent.
Yes guaranteed 70 mn plus hard to achieve add ons means winning cl or pl. If we achieved money well spent than wasting 50 mn on some one like Maguire.
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