Yes mate you're right, Sir Alex, Van Gaal, Moyes and Jose are all wrong. Keep telling yourself you know better than the experts, you'll go far...
12
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 45
- Clean sheets
- 20
- Goals
- 4
- Assists
- 0
- Yellow cards
- 4
- Status
What does it even mean to be 'dim at defending'? Every year it seems like someone tries dredging up some kind of issue with him when the reality is he's a very good defender - quick, strong, aggressive and dominant in the air.
His ball playing ability may leave something to be desired but honestly I'd much prefer to have it that way round than a half decent ball player that's useless at defending, of which there are plenty.
His ball playing ability may leave something to be desired but honestly I'd much prefer to have it that way round than a half decent ball player that's useless at defending, of which there are plenty.
This is the funniest agenda I have seen on caf. You can literally make such clips about every single player wearing a football jersey. And if you are judging players using such clips, there is no point in discussing
Smalling is not the world's best but is definitely a very good defender. He has limitations in terms of playing from the back. I think he is pretty much aware of that limitation and that is why he tries to get rid of the ball as fast as he can instead of lingering on it
It's not just key goals.
This season in the league so far:
With Smalling: 12 goals conceded in 13 starts. 0.92 goals per game.
Without: 4 goals conceded in 9 games. 0.44 goals per game.
Last year:
With: 1.23 goals conceded per game.
Without: 0.52 goals conceded per game.
He's done well to stay fit and be the reliable one of our CBs but we have got to find something better if we want to challenge for titles again. To be fair Jose's setup means defence isn't our biggest worry but Smalling should be no more than a squad player for us.
Easily our best defender?!
He’s not even our best English defender!
Is he better than Bailly then?
He’s not even our best English defender!
Is he better than Bailly then?
Hmmm... Those stats are fairly damning.
Except that’s exactly the opposite of what’s happening, as per the stats above.
God that's pretty bad.
Would you possibly be able to give context for those stats? This years at least if you can't be bothered to do a whole season.
A meaningless small sample of statistics. How many of Smalling's games were against better opposition (he played against all of the top 6)? Away from home(where every team concedes more)? Played alongside weaker teammates (Lindelof's shocker vs Huddersfield accounts for 2 goals)? Penalty conceded by Rojo (1).
Also don't Southampton have a better defensive record this season by such stats without the centre back they just sold for £75m?
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Ok so stats don’t matter, quality doesn’t matter, mistakes don’t matter, what matters is that he can stay fit. Smalling advocate logic 2010-2018
Sorry I'm not sure what you are talking about? Do you believe that the 4 questions I posed will have an impact on the statistics or not?Ok so stats don’t matter, quality doesn’t matter, mistakes don’t matter, what matters is that he can stay fit. Smalling advocate logic 2010-2018
Pretty simply a count of all goals conceded in the games hes started vs the goals conceded in the games he didn't, taken from Squawka and Whoscored.
If those numbers were just over a game or two i'd agree with you but over two seasons a pattern emerges, considering we also concede more shots on goal when he plays too.
I'm critical of him in this thread but i do like him as a squad player. He's probably the best backup CB in the PL but he's a starter for us at the moment and its a problem.
Bailly is nowhere to be seen this year, same as Jones who's missed half of the season already.
Also, it's funny how haters were quiet for almost two months, dueing which Smalling was probably our best player, and waited him to get injured to start criticising him again for nothing 
Certainly more so than Jones, Rojo, Lindelof. Bailly seems a talent.
Definitely more than the Keanes and Evans’ that people wanted us to sign last year.
The agenda posting is beyond obvious. More laugh worthy than anything.Also, it's funny how haters were quiet for almost two months, dueing which Smalling was probably our best player, and waited him to get injured to start criticising him again for nothing
Also, it's funny how haters were quiet for almost two months, dueing which Smalling was probably our best player, and waited him to get injured to start criticising him again for nothing
It's sad how criticism can't be made anymore without it being labelled hateful or agenda driven.
Labels usually thrown around by people with an underlying agenda of their own. The clue is usually when they respond to criticism by saying stuff like "yeah but he wasn't as bad as *insert name of player they don't rate here*"
Smalling's an odd one. His individual defensive contributions are often outstanding but I've long suspected that we're far more likely to have a defensive horror show with him as part of our team than we are without him in the starting line-up. Which the stats above seem to back up. I've no idea why this happens, mind you.
When criticism is hateful or agenda driven.... it will be called out. It’s kinda sad that agenda driven posting tries to hide behind the mask of objective analysis and criticism.
You have posters in here who have actively said they only come here to post when he makes a mistake. They’re never in here to give him his due praise when he plays well for 2 months solid. You have the same people that called him mentally weak for not playing injured last season, blaming him for a goal conceded while he stayed on the pitch injured under coaching staff instructions.
I mean if you can’t see hateful agenda posting in all that then what can I say.
This is exactly what I think too. He just attracts trouble in my eyes.
Because he looks like trouble.
Doesn't mean he is trouble.
One of our most consistent defenders.
Agenda posting works both ways. I now have posters following me around the player threads because I dare to suggest Smalling isn't as great as they think he is. He has a very active fan club on here. It's easy to spot, and is often backed up by a 'well anyone who has ever played the game would know hes a top player' or similar throwaway comment.
Precisely, they're not even worth replying to.Also, it's funny how haters were quiet for almost two months, dueing which Smalling was probably our best player, and waited him to get injured to start criticising him again for nothing
Smalling is one of the players in our squad that some 'fans' are going to take an issue with regardless of what he does, short of him becoming Maldini some people will just always complain that he's not good enough.
Leave 'em to it, since it makes them feel better.
The fact he's not been responsible for any goals absolves him of whatever those stats are implying. That's a team problem just providing a statistical anomaly. Also, the quality of opponent we played in the games matters. If he's played all the better sides then we'd clearly concede more goals in those games.
What about the 6 missing league games, we've played 22 league games?
Abuse of stats is real.
Smalling played against all the strong teams and missed against
Everton home and away,
West Ham - Home
Swansea - Away
Leicester - Home
Stoke - Away
Burnley - Home
Leicester - Away
All are easy games and stats won't tell any story at all.
13+9=22
He's a starter though as the other CBs keep getting injured. I'm sure if they had all been fit all season he would probably have half the appearances he currently has. That's the definition of a squad player surely?
It's odd how fans have this agenda against some players and continue to post nonsense from time to time.Also, it's funny how haters were quiet for almost two months, dueing which Smalling was probably our best player, and waited him to get injured to start criticising him again for nothing
Without checking which games he played and which he missed, these stats doesn't make any sense.
For example Lukaku's mistake made us concede 2 goals vs City, but as per records Smalling started the game and we conceded 2 goals (I don't remember whether he started, just using as example)
He stayed in the side when we had multiple defenders fit too
He was in possession and playing well though, and it felt like others would come back for a game or two then break again.
Hopefully he can get 90 minutes under his belt against Derby in the cup.
Exactly. I give up.
Where was all the criticism during the last 2 months when he was our most reliable CB? He gets injured, Rojo and Jones come back, and suddenly Smalling sucks.
An agenda poster would be someone who would criticise him even when he does have good performances. Even when so they would find something negative to pick on like a misplaced pass or a bad tackle etc.
Also with an agenda is someone unable to give out criticism when due.
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First off the main pairing appears to be Bailly and Jones. They are the ones who started at the beginning of the season. I don't think Bailly and Rojo have even started a single game together in a back two this season. Smalling has been available for the majority of our tougher games this season and has played against all the top 6 sides. Jones and Bailly started when United where flying at the beginning of the season. Quality doesn't come by default because of availability of course but you can't keep harping on about contributions of players who are not there when you need them most.
Smalling has got more than just height going for him. He's also possibly the quickest defender we have. Did you see him bust a gut to catch up with Mahrez against Leicester before they scored. Jones couldn't do the same with Vardy, and Vardy himself (in the season Leicester won the title) mentioned Smalling as the toughest defender he faced in the league.
When asked which of league’s spoilers has performed the best against him, The Foxes leading scorer said: “On a personal level, Chris Smalling.
“He’s always tight and always around you to stop you from doing your bit on the ball or getting turned.
“He makes it very difficult for you to bring your team-mates into the game as well.”
http://www.squawka.com/news/smalling-is-the-toughest-ive-ever-played-against-says-vardy/606334
Doesn't sound like a player who's only useful because of his height. He's also the only CB we have in the team with goals in double figures for United. As for the part in bold, how is this Smalling's fault? Yes we all know he's not the best with the ball at his feet, but he's always played alongside players with that ability. Jones, Evans, Blind and Bailly have/had this ability. Rio was vastly superior to Vidic in this respect. Scholes actually had to pick up the ball from the back more often than not. These are a few posts from 2007 in a thread lamenting Scholes deeper role and waning attacking contributions:
I just think he is playing to deep. Could be because Rooney and Tevez are dropping back into the midfield to pick up the ball. Or maybe Ferguson wants him to play more defensively, or be more of a field general. Hopefully when Hargreaves begins to play Scholes can go back to being more attack minded.
He plays deep(er) these days. Has done so for a few years (mind you this thread was made in 2007)
It is because he is playing 10 yards too deep. He is seeing as much of the ball as ever and he has probably retained the ball just as well but his passes haven't been of the incisive type because of his deep starting position.
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/thats-not-paul-scholes.172226/
The following is from a 2005 thread about our midfielders defending too deep.
The link-up for counter attack is also crucial, hence, Rooney has to drop deep to collect the ball leaving Ruud isolated again upfront. Whilst, Fletcher does not do enough to pull defenders out wide with him on the counter. Heck, sometimes I don't even see anyone in the way of Fletcher until the half way line. Perhaps they know about his prowess or limitations.
Rio needs a pay cut, perhaps he would remember how to play once more. Park had tried had but there is very little one man can do in a team game. Same for Rooney, no one can fault him as well.
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/we-are-defending-too-deep.92801/
You singled out Smalling for this as if he's the main reason its been happening in recent years. Again, what about the others who are much better with the ball? We've obviously had those same issues in the past even with some of our greatest midfielders and CBs
Furthermore, according to Squawka Smalling bests our other CBs in the following categories in the league so far:
1. Aerial duels- 73.58% with the closest Bailly at 70.59. This comes as no surprise
2. Interceptions
3. Least defensive errors
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Agenda poster is someone who criticises some player for no reason. And that is the often case with Smalling, he is our best CB this season by a mile and yet he is pretty much the only one who is criticised randomly.
Dont think youve seen threads of Herrera, Darmian, Blind, Rashford, Lingard (less so now)...
I dont think its random by the way. I think hes a capable defender but shows signs that he was brought through via the conference. Hes fantastic inside the box when having to head the ball away. But hes not a leader of a defence. His communication almost seems non existent when im at games (you hardly see him talking to his partner even though you would think he should be captain material by now). And hes not top standard with the ball at his feet.
Smalling is fine as a squad player, but he is nowhere near good enough to be the starting CB in a club with our aspirations.
At his age, you'd expect him to be a defensive leader, but he's not. Similarly, with his experience, you'd expect focus, but he's definitely the Silvestres about him.
But the biggest issue is that he's barely a footballer with the ball. Teams for a good few years have been letting him have the ball, because it's an excellent strategy. Back in the day a defender could get away with only defending, but not anymore.
No reason to sell him, but he should very much be behind Bailly and Jones.
At his age, you'd expect him to be a defensive leader, but he's not. Similarly, with his experience, you'd expect focus, but he's definitely the Silvestres about him.
But the biggest issue is that he's barely a footballer with the ball. Teams for a good few years have been letting him have the ball, because it's an excellent strategy. Back in the day a defender could get away with only defending, but not anymore.
No reason to sell him, but he should very much be behind Bailly and Jones.
- Status