Maybe Arsenal but likely no where else, heading the ball is not the only thing that matters for a defender.
Chris Smalling - does he start at any other top 6 team?
- Thread starter Reiver
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To each their own, but I'd rate him far worse in both these things.
Smalling had a bit of a concentration issue when he was younger but once he got older and more confident it became clear his reading of the game and positioning were his main assets that make him a top defender. I mean if he didn't have that, I wouldn't be a fan of him or defend him because I simply wouldn't study his defending. He is actually underrated.
Erm. K. To each their own.
Word mate. How can we see things so differently though? It is weird that
He’s never been the best in attack though. Smalling was always the best player in that back four for years. Don’t you think so?
So in your eyes that's all Smalling offers United?
Everywhere but City.
Lindelof is better.
They've conceded less goals than United.
It seems weird that people completely write off the idea that he could play for a manager that has a possession based philosophy when he was a starter for Van Gaal. LVG’s system is one of the inspirations for many of these current possession based systems and LVG didn’t seem to think Smalling was too technically limited.
Would they sign him if given the choice? Probably not. Would they actively look to sell him if he was already in the squad? I don't think so either because he's pretty solid defensively and you can't be sure your fancy new ball playing CB will adjust to the league.
Because we played horrible Football back then.
He would start for Arsenal, that’s it.
He’s not as good as Van Dijk, Alderweireld, Vertonghen, Sanchez, Luiz, Rudiger, Laporte, Otamendi, Sokratis or Kompany.
Gomez, Stones and Christensen all have a higher ceiling than him.
He’s on par with Lovren, Matip and Koscielny.
He’s not as good as Van Dijk, Alderweireld, Vertonghen, Sanchez, Luiz, Rudiger, Laporte, Otamendi, Sokratis or Kompany.
Gomez, Stones and Christensen all have a higher ceiling than him.
He’s on par with Lovren, Matip and Koscielny.
I do think Smalling is consistently under rated.
His ball playng skills aren't the best but are certainly not as bad as many people make out. Since Ole took over he's been part of a massively improved defence. Under Jose, the tactics employed were basically drop deep defend and hope to score on the counter, this naturally puts the defence under huge pressure for long periods of the game and inevitably there will be mistakes, I think this is true for a lot of flack aimed at all your CBs. Under Ole that pressure has lessened as you've focussed more on getting the ball and keeping it further up the pitch, meaning the defence have more time in the game to reorganise, hence many more clean sheets, and what looks like much better defending.
I think Samlling woul get games in most top 6 teams, if he was playing for Chelsea or Spurs and you lot signed him, there would be lots of
emojis all over the place! The grass is always greener etc!
His ball playng skills aren't the best but are certainly not as bad as many people make out. Since Ole took over he's been part of a massively improved defence. Under Jose, the tactics employed were basically drop deep defend and hope to score on the counter, this naturally puts the defence under huge pressure for long periods of the game and inevitably there will be mistakes, I think this is true for a lot of flack aimed at all your CBs. Under Ole that pressure has lessened as you've focussed more on getting the ball and keeping it further up the pitch, meaning the defence have more time in the game to reorganise, hence many more clean sheets, and what looks like much better defending.
I think Samlling woul get games in most top 6 teams, if he was playing for Chelsea or Spurs and you lot signed him, there would be lots of
emojis all over the place! The grass is always greener etc!Not for City or Spur.
May have a squad rotation role for Liverpool and Chelsea.
Will start for Arsenal.
May have a squad rotation role for Liverpool and Chelsea.
Will start for Arsenal.
Guardiola's way of playing and LVG's have big fundamental differences. Smalling is very good at defending, but he wouldn't play for Guardiola.
There is no other defender I would like in our team for the PSG match.
Managers look for CBs who are good on the ball, so due to that he's not a good fit for many teams. In terms of pure defending, he'd get into many of the top teams I reckon.
I agree with that. My point is just that there are a lot of posters saying that he’s basically incapable of playing in a possession based system and no manager who employs a system like that would tolerate him when there is clear evidence that isn’t true. It just feels like lazy analysis on their part.
Arsenal and Liverpool (Smalling and Van Dijk would be an unstoppable combination defending in the air haha). City and Chelsea he wouldn't fit into their system requiring ball playing centre backs and Spurs just have a lot of quality at centre back, maybe at Spurs if they are playing a back 3.
Smalling is overrated and underrated in equal measure by his supporters and detractors , he is just about average on the ball but with right partner and team with not many glaring weaknesses he should be fine ,but he is not exactly a defensive giant which his supporters make him out to be when comparing him to other top teams Cb's they are fairly equal he is not better then them even defensively.
Exactly.
Yes....thread
You're right in that he has played in a possession based system (and for a period of time during LVG's tenure I thought he was excellent). I think in a system like LVG's where the tempo was slow and the movement was fairly static he has no problem. I do think problems would arise if he was placed in a system such as Guardiola's though.
If Smalling keeps up his shirt grabbing he'll be one of the worst defenders in world football when VAR starts next year.
He already could have had a few pens given against him this year. One of those actually was in a VAR game strangely so maybe they'll not be too harsh on him!
He already could have had a few pens given against him this year. One of those actually was in a VAR game strangely so maybe they'll not be too harsh on him!
Spurs and City - he wouldn’t play for them. Spurs have the best collection of CBs IMO and City just would not accept someone of Smallings quality on the ball.
Liverpool wouldn’t put him as a starter ahead of Gomez but he’s better than Matip and Lovren so yes.
Gets in at Arsenal.
Chelsea - he’s a better defender than Rudiger but the latter is better on the ball. I’d go Smalling.
Liverpool wouldn’t put him as a starter ahead of Gomez but he’s better than Matip and Lovren so yes.
Gets in at Arsenal.
Chelsea - he’s a better defender than Rudiger but the latter is better on the ball. I’d go Smalling.
These are not straight forward questions tbh.
If Smalling was already at their clubs, maybe he would have started. Now that they have decent collection of CBs, they won't spend money to sign him.
For example, for ManUtd I wouldn't sign Rudiger, Luiz, Lovren, Matip, Mustafi, Kos.
Also if Davinson Sanchez makes as many mistakes playing for ManUtd, fans would have wanted him gone long back and Foyth would be playing for for U23s.
If Smalling was already at their clubs, maybe he would have started. Now that they have decent collection of CBs, they won't spend money to sign him.
For example, for ManUtd I wouldn't sign Rudiger, Luiz, Lovren, Matip, Mustafi, Kos.
Also if Davinson Sanchez makes as many mistakes playing for ManUtd, fans would have wanted him gone long back and Foyth would be playing for for U23s.
So refs checked videos, deemed it's not enough to give penalty decision but somehow it's used against Smalling? Now are we using "He almost conceded a penalty" against him?
He has played many games where VAR was used, forget penalty, he barely concedes a foul.
I was going to say this. He would cost us so many penalties we wouldnt have a chance of winning. It wouldnt surprise me if he isnt sold to a team like Arsenal in the summer.
I hope you are right....! What you simply can't deny is that for almost his entire United career he is regularly holding on to opposition players. He is lucky to have not conceded more penalties and I struggle to see how he'll continue to get away with it.
If VAR is going to pick on every slight infraction it will be 10 pens a piece for the first few games... cannot see it happening, if you want to be picky you could give a pen nearly every time the ball goes into the box from a corner or freekick, that said Smalling is particularly bad at shirt pulling, which is a shame because right now he is worth his 1st team spot without it.
Holding opposition player is a general tactic used by every defender playing at good level.
Smalling will win shit loads of penalties too if every shirt tug is given as penalty defending set pieces. Attackers also holds defender's shirt when attacking set pieces.
There is no way of knowing if he would actually start for these clubs since he is not with any of them, then there is the issue of manager's preference, form and the situation, so this is more about comparing him with the centrebacks at other clubs.
Though City emphasize a lot on possession, I'd say they also have a solid defensive base and are very convincing at set pieces. They have a top defender in Laporte, Kompany - though ravaged with injuries - is good, Stones is excellent on the ball, Otamendi is unconvincing. All in all, I think City are well covered at CB that they wouldn't need one like Smalling.
Arsenal play with CBs that are vastly inferior to Smalling. Mustafi, Sokratis, Kolscieny, Holding, Mavropanos. These guys aren't exactly Pirlo and Beckenbaeur on the ball either.
Liverpool has VVD who I consider the best defender in Europe, Gomez is very good but injury prone, I would pick Smalling over Matip and Lovren any day.
Chelsea are another team that emphasize on possession, but unlike City, their defence is not the best. Rudiger is impressive and excellent on the ball, Luiz is arguably the best on the ball in europe but lacks solidity, Cahill meh, and Christensen is not bad either. Smalling is a better defender than all, but you don't know with Sarri. He is one stubborn guy.
Spurs have a decent collection of CBs, though some are still living off 15/16. I'd have Alderweireld and Vertoghen as better footballers but not better defenders. Then there is that issue of Spurs usually utilizing a back 3 where they have Sanchez who is not as good as Smalling, yet does not have enough on the the ball to compensate.
When it comes down to pure defending though, he is as good as many in the league - Van Dijk is the only one I'd consider better than him.
Though City emphasize a lot on possession, I'd say they also have a solid defensive base and are very convincing at set pieces. They have a top defender in Laporte, Kompany - though ravaged with injuries - is good, Stones is excellent on the ball, Otamendi is unconvincing. All in all, I think City are well covered at CB that they wouldn't need one like Smalling.
Arsenal play with CBs that are vastly inferior to Smalling. Mustafi, Sokratis, Kolscieny, Holding, Mavropanos. These guys aren't exactly Pirlo and Beckenbaeur on the ball either.
Liverpool has VVD who I consider the best defender in Europe, Gomez is very good but injury prone, I would pick Smalling over Matip and Lovren any day.
Chelsea are another team that emphasize on possession, but unlike City, their defence is not the best. Rudiger is impressive and excellent on the ball, Luiz is arguably the best on the ball in europe but lacks solidity, Cahill meh, and Christensen is not bad either. Smalling is a better defender than all, but you don't know with Sarri. He is one stubborn guy.
Spurs have a decent collection of CBs, though some are still living off 15/16. I'd have Alderweireld and Vertoghen as better footballers but not better defenders. Then there is that issue of Spurs usually utilizing a back 3 where they have Sanchez who is not as good as Smalling, yet does not have enough on the the ball to compensate.
When it comes down to pure defending though, he is as good as many in the league - Van Dijk is the only one I'd consider better than him.
It's a tactic because it gives an advantage that pre VAR is very easy to get away with. It's very hard for a ref to see the extent of a shirt pull or sometimes to see it at all.
Under VAR every single shirt pull will be assessed and given that it's a foul under the laws of the game I struggle to see how someone like Smalling will continue to get away with it when he is particularly bad at it.
Yes you are right he might win the odd free kick as well, but clearly that will have less bearing on the game.
It's not just shirt pulling as well, Smalling is quite often grabbing all over attackers.
VAR is used in Serie A and Bundesliga, they don't get 10s of penalties every game.
Italian defenders make Smalling look cleanest of players and they barely give any decisions for shirt pulling. Unless it's very blatant, holding player won't end up as penalty as it's always a fight between attacker and defenders, attackers also hold defenders and also their shirts, shorts everything.
Like I already said, Smalling played against few big teams when VAR was used, he hasn't conceded a penalty and barely conceded a foul in those games. It's just something people expect to happen forever but it never happens.
Only really Spurs and City that he wouldn’t have over the last few years. Even then I think he’d have gotten a lot of game time at Spurs.
That does my head in. Hasn't he already given away a pen or 2 over the last couple of seasons for that exact reason? And I like Smalling.