Christian Pulisic | Chelsea player

[TheReligion]

It's literally the exact same situation. Youth player potentially displaced by big signing; he'll have to knuckle down and improve to regain his place or be content with a spot on the bench.

Mount is still playing even if we buy Havertz anyways, CHO and Tammy haven't shown enough to be starters week in week out. They'll still get plenty of minutes but will have to improve to be nailed on starters.

Greenwood is 18 and has already scored 15 goals this season and had plenty of minutes. He's going to be a CF hence why we aren't occupying that spot and have only looked at Ighalo or a stop gap for the time being. He can also play a number of positions across the front so little issue with minutes in his development.

With what you're suggesting you're literally removing and replacing 3 academy players with big money signings who will be at Chelsea a long time...

I'm sure you see this difference if you look hard enough.

 

[TheReligion]

Sancho-Martial-Rashford
Where exactly would his scope to break in come from?

Eh? Hes 18 and developing. He will be a CF long term but can play across the front line. I'm not sure how you don't see him getting opportunities when he's one of four main forwards.

 

[forevrared]

Greenwood is in the first team right now and obviously any move for Sancho comes after he's become a nailed on starter. Also Pulisic didn't come in after CHO / Tammy / Mount, this is his first season.

United don't have the forward quality to rotate any of those three at the moment - bar giving Martial a rest and playing Ighalo (who's only on loan). Adding a 4th forward is hardly the same as buying 4 young players for hundreds of millions in the space of a year when you've got 3 young players vying for those spots, as well. Pulisic obviously joined this year, but was bought last year.

 

[duffer]

Eh? Hes 18 and developing. He will be a CF long term but can play across the front line. I'm not sure how you don't see him getting opportunities when he's one of four main forwards.

Binning him off already with a mega money signing from abroad? Disgusting.

 

[TheReligion]

Binning him off already with a mega money signing from abroad? Disgusting.

This is Chelsea's MO. You know this.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

Greenwood is 18 and has already scored 15 goals this season and had plenty of minutes. He's going to be a CF hence why we aren't occupying that spot and have only looked at Ighalo or a stop gap for the time being. He can also play a number of positions across the front so little issue with minutes in his development.

With what you're suggesting you're literally removing and replacing 3 academy players with big money signings who will be at Chelsea a long time...

I'm sure you see this difference if you look hard enough.

Again, Mount isn't being removed. CHO hasn't been a starter all season; in fact his path to the first team is clearer with Willian & Pedro gone. He'd get more minutes next season as the 3rd winger. So that one's out too. Tammy has shown flashes but he's obviously not as good as Werner; he'll still be the first option off the bench & Werner is versatile enough that they could play together. He's the only one who is likely to lose a big chunk of minutes.

Unless you're planning on getting rid of Martial, Greenwood loses minutes to Sancho. Just like Tammy. The situation is literally exactly the same.

 

[Dancfc]

Eh? Hes 18 and developing. He will be a CF long term but can play across the front line. I'm not sure how you don't see him getting opportunities when he's one of four main forwards.

I was going by your logic in the first post, you'll rotate which will give him minutes, as will we with our lot. Football is playing catchup from lockdown, squad's are more vital than ever.

 

[duffer]

This is Chelsea's MO. You know this.

Which is why it's a shame to see you lot looking to copy us.

 

[TheReligion]

United don't have the forward quality to rotate any of those three at the moment - bar giving Martial a rest and playing Ighalo (who's only on loan). Adding a 4th forward is hardly the same as buying 4 young players for hundreds of millions n the space of a year when you've got 3 young players vying for those spots, as well. Pulisic obviously joined this year, but was bought last year.

I'm not sure how they don't see this.

 

[TheReligion]

I was going by your logic in the first post, you'll rotate which will give him minutes, as will we with our lot. Football is playing catchup from lockdown, squad's are more vital than ever.

You don't see the difference in you buying Zyiech, Werner, Havertz and Pulisic and relegating your academy players to the bench compared United signing Sancho and having Greenwood (who is younger than all of your lot) getting opportunities with three others.

 

[golden_blunder]

Indeed, Gio is Claudio's son

Aha. His dad wasn’t a bad player too

 

[TheReligion]

Again, Mount isn't being removed. CHO hasn't been a starter all season; in fact his path to the first team is clearer with Willian & Pedro gone. He'd get more minutes next season as the 3rd winger. So that one's out too. Tammy has shown flashes but he's obviously not as good as Werner; he'll still be the first option off the bench & Werner is versatile enough that they could play together. He's the only one who is likely to lose a big chunk of minutes.

Unless you're planning on getting rid of Martial, Greenwood loses minutes to Sancho. Just like Tammy. The situation is literally exactly the same.

So tell me where CHO, Tammy and Mount get minutes in a team with Havertz, Zyiech, Werner and Pulisic as the first team?

You've literally paid mega money on 4 new players in that scenario and you're comparing that to United buying one player to compete for 3 spots.

I'm not sure of the logic.

 

[duffer]

You don't see the difference in you buying Zyiech, Werner, Havertz and Pulisic and relegating your academy players to the bench compared United signing Sancho and having Greenwood (who is younger than all of your lot) getting opportunities with three others.

Pulisic replaced Hazard and Ziyech, and Werner will replace Willian and Pedro (who are both gone at the end of the season).

It'll make things tougher for the likes of CHO but we were never going to go with 6 academy players in the first XI.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

So tell me where CHO, Tammy and Mount get minutes in a team with Havertz, Zyiech, Werner and Pulisic as the first team?

You've literally paid mega money on 4 new players in that scenario and you're comparing that to United buying one player to compete for 3 spots.

I'm not sure of the logic.

Havertz is being bought to play as an 8, not in the front 3.

Mount stays in the team as the other first choice 8. CHO goes from being the 4th winger to the 3rd winger - Ziyech isn't a replacement for CHO, he's a replacement for Willian. CHO hasn't been a consistent starter at all this season, so he's not being relegated to the bench. He'll in fact get more minutes next year. Tammy becomes the backup CF / 2nd option off the bench in the 65th-70th minute. He's the only one likely to lose significant minutes.

 

[TheReligion]

Pulisic replaced Hazard and Ziyech, and Werner will replace Willian and Pedro (who are both gone at the end of the season).

It'll make things tougher for the likes of CHO but we were never going to go with 6 academy players in the first XI.

My point is its nothing like United signing Sancho. He'll have plenty of pathways open to him whilst as you say it makes it much tougher for yours and resigns Tammy and Mount to the bench.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

My point is its nothing like United signing Sancho. He'll have plenty of pathways open to him whilst as you say it makes it much tougher for yours and resigns Tammy and Mount to the bench.

You keep saying Mount is going to the bench, this is just incorrect. He's more or less the first name on the teamsheet right now; he's 100% going to play as our other first choice 8.

 

[duffer]

My point is its nothing like United signing Sancho. He'll have plenty of pathways open to him whilst as you say it makes it much tougher for yours and resigns Tammy and Mount to the bench.

Signing Sancho relegates Greenwood to the bench as well. It's the same.

 

[TheReligion]

Havertz is being bought to play as an 8, not in the front 3.

Mount stays in the team as the other first choice 8. CHO goes from being the 4th winger to the 3rd winger - Ziyech isn't a replacement for CHO, he's a replacement for Willian. CHO hasn't been a consistent starter at all this season, so he's not being relegated to the bench. He'll in fact get more minutes next year. Tammy becomes the backup CF / 2nd option off the bench in the 65th-70th minute. He's the only one likely to lose significant minutes.

So let me get this straight. You are still comparing you signing 4 new first team players and relegating all your academy players to the bench as the same as United signing Sancho and not playing an 18 year old Greenwood every game. Just so I'm clear.

 

[TheReligion]

Signing Sancho relegates Greenwood to the bench as well. It's the same.

Jesus this is hard work.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

So let me get this straight. You are still comparing you signing 4 new first team players and relegating all your academy players to the bench as the same as United signing Sancho and not playing an 18 year old Greenwood every game. Just so I'm clear.

Nice strawman. One academy player goes to the bench in this scenario. Exactly the same as the hypothetical where you buy Sancho.

 

[Mount's Goatieson]

This is Chelsea's MO. You know this.

Yeah would have thought United were above this but heyho Sancho.

 

[WeePat]

Meh. The original post was only designed to trigger a reaction anyway. It worked, as usual.

 

[Dancfc]

You don't see the difference in you buying Zyiech, Werner, Havertz and Pulisic and relegating your academy players to the bench compared United signing Sancho and having Greenwood (who is younger than all of your lot) getting opportunities with three others.

Mount will play regardless, he's a tempo player that works as an excellent foil to WC player's, think similar to Pedro at Pep's Barca. CHO even as a back up to Ziyech will still see a lot of minutes and will still only be 22 when Hakim is 30 and Tammy is probably more at his level as a backup (nothing wrong with that he can still contribute that way).

You've missed James, according to sources close to the club we shelved plans to sign Hakimi due to his emergence.

 

[charlenefan]

Nice strawman. One academy player goes to the bench in this scenario. Exactly the same as the hypothetical where you buy Sancho.

His point is that Chelsea are potentially going to block pathways into the 1st team for 3 or 4 academy graduates due to your multiple signings, we're potentially signing one player who will only impact 1 academy graduate

Ultimately though the Chelsea graduates aren't good enough that's why Chelsea are signing the players they are, we won't be signing Sancho because Greenwood isn't good enough, we'll be signing Sancho because Greenwood included we don't have a natural wide man for the right hand side

 

[TheReligion]

Nice strawman. One academy player goes to the bench in this scenario. Exactly the same as the hypothetical where you buy Sancho.

It's not a strawman. It's a fact!

You've bought players who you expect to be at Chelsea for the long term. Pulisic, Werner, Zyiech and you included Havertz. If they are all successful then what path to the first team do Abraham, Mount and CHO have? What happens to RLC?

CHO is on £130k p/w and apparently Tammy wants parity. It all gets a bit messy from where I'm sat.

 

[TheReligion]

His point is that Chelsea are potentially going to block pathways into the 1st team for 3 or 4 academy graduates due to your multiple signings, we're potentially signing one player who will only impact 1 academy graduate

Ultimately though the Chelsea graduates aren't good enough that's why Chelsea are signing the players they are, we won't be signing Sancho because Greenwood isn't good enough, we'll be signing Sancho because Greenwood included we don't have a natural wide man for the right hand side

Not sure how they can't see the point. It's not even controversial it's blindingly obvious.

We will have Rashford, Martial, Sancho and Greenwood competing for 4 spots. Greenwood is 18 and still very young. It's basically the ideal situation for United.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

His point is that Chelsea are potentially going to block pathways into the 1st team for 3 or 4 academy graduates due to your multiple signings, we're potentially signing one player who will only impact 1 academy graduate

Ultimately though the Chelsea graduates aren't good enough that's why Chelsea are signing the players they are, we won't be signing Sancho because Greenwood isn't good enough, we'll be signing Sancho because Greenwood included we don't have a natural wide man for the right hand side

Well, he's not expressing that very well since he keeps going on about academy players getting relegated to the bench. It seems silly to miss out on top top talent when the players coming through haven't gone on loan yet.

It's not a strawman. It's a fact!

You've bought players who you expect to be at Chelsea for the long term. Pulisic, Werner, Zyiech and you included Havertz. If they are all successful then what path to the first team do Abraham, Mount and CHO have? What happens to RLC?

CHO is on £130k p/w and apparently Tammy wants parity. It all gets a bit messy from where I'm sat.

Again, Mount is in the first team no matter what.

CHO gets more minutes next year as the 3rd winger. He's still 19. There are always injuries & rotation at a top club. Ziyech is also 27 so it's not like he's in CHO's path forever.

Tammy has to improve. He's not good enough to be the first choice striker at a team with title aspirations. He'd still be a rotation option and an option off the bench to hold the ball up & bring others into play.

RLC is the first backup 8 along with Kovacic.

Not sure how they can't see the point. It's not even controversial it's blindingly obvious.

We will have Rashford, Martial, Sancho and Greenwood competing for 4 spots. Greenwood is 18 and still very young. It's basically the ideal situation for United.

Chelsea would have Pulisic, Ziyech, and CHO competing for the two winger spots. CHO is 19 and still very young. It's basically the ideal situation for Chelsea.

 

[TheReligion]

Well, he's not expressing that very well since he keeps going on about academy players getting relegated to the bench. It seems silly to miss out on top top talent when the players coming through haven't gone on loan yet.



Again, Mount is in the first team no matter what.

CHO gets more minutes next year as the 3rd winger. He's still 19. There are always injuries & rotation at a top club. Ziyech is also 27 so it's not like he's in CHO's path forever.

Tammy has to improve. He's not good enough to be the first choice striker at a team with title aspirations. He'd still be a rotation option and an option off the bench to hold the ball up & bring others into play.

RLC is the first backup 8 along with Kovacic.



Chelsea would have Pulisic, Ziyech, and CHO competing for the two winger spots. CHO is 19 and still very young. It's basically the ideal situation for Chelsea.

You're paying CHO £130k a week FYI and Tammy wants the same.

So what's the first team by your logic?

Back 5

Ziyech Werner Pulisic Havertz

Who gets the two other spots? Jorginho, Kante, Kovacic, RLC, Mount, Bakayoko, Drinkwater? I've probably missed a few more.

 

[Mount's Goatieson]

For some reason young speed demon Daniel James seems to have vanished from the memories of United fan, youth product Andreas Pereira is to be shipped out TFM and Tuanzebe, unlike Angel Gomes, extended their contracts and are still patiently waiting for their chance as the 80m man strolls in and amazing wing back Diogo Dalot got replaced in a season.
But let's talk about Chelsea buying players and blocking progress of youngsters.

 

[WeePat]

His point is that Chelsea are potentially going to block pathways into the 1st team for 3 or 4 academy graduates due to your multiple signings, we're potentially signing one player who will only impact 1 academy graduate

Ultimately though the Chelsea graduates aren't good enough that's why Chelsea are signing the players they are, we won't be signing Sancho because Greenwood isn't good enough, we'll be signing Sancho because Greenwood included we don't have a natural wide man for the right hand side

Abraham is already struggling vs Giroud. CHO hasn't been a starter all season. Mount will likely keep his place. James will likely keep progressing. Christensen likewise. That's 3 starters and 3 more on the fringes out of the academy players. Hardly a catastrophe.

 

[Dancfc]

Not sure how they can't see the point. It's not even controversial it's blindingly obvious.

We will have Rashford, Martial, Sancho and Greenwood competing for 4 spots. Greenwood is 18 and still very young. It's basically the ideal situation for United.

Tell you what, if you're that confident how about a wager? Goes for @charlenefan too.

James and CHO will play more games next year than this, Mount will play in or around the same (at worst 10 less). Voided for an individual if they have a lay off longer than two months.

Everyone i get wrong i'll donate £50 to this site or a charity of your choice, everyone i get right you do.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

You're paying CHO £130k a week FYI and Tammy wants the same.

So what's the first team by your logic?

Back 5

Ziyech Werner Pulisic Havertz

Who gets the two other spots? Jorginho, Kante, Kovacic, RLC, Mount, Bakayoko, Drinkwater? I've probably missed a few more.

4-3-3.

----------------Onana / literally anyone besides Kepa-------------
James / Azpi---CB clown show 1&2------------Tagliafico(?)
-----------------------------------Kante------------------------------------------
--------------Havertz--------------------------Mount------------------
Ziyech--------------------Werner----------------------------Pulisic

Jorginho & Bakayoko look likely to be sold. RLC & Kovacic are the backup 8s. Drinkwater is a lost cause and will be sent on loan again.

 

[TheReligion]

Tell you what, if you're that confident how about a wager? Goes for @charlenefan too.

James and CHO will play more games next year than this, Mount will play in or around the same (at worst 10 less). Voided for an individual if they have a lay off longer than two months.

Everyone i get wrong i'll donate £50 to this site or a charity of your choice, everyone i get right you do.

I imagine James will play. I've never mentioned he won't.

With regards to the others I'm sure they'll get games but the point that's being made is you're blocking pathways for them in the first team by spending lots of money on players who aren't particularly old and who you expect to be around for a long time. To try and compare that to United making one signing is brain dead especially when you consider we off loaded Lukaku to get Greenwood into the fold this season and he was only 17 at the time.

United are managing Greenwood (and Rashford who is still 22) very well. Adding Sancho to the fold will only be a benefit.

 

[Pow]

Whats with all this havertz inclusions ? Have i missed something ???

 

[TheReligion]

4-3-3.

----------------Onana / literally anyone besides Kepa-------------
James / Azpi---CB clown show 1&2------------Tagliafico(?)
-----------------------------------Kante------------------------------------------
--------------Havertz--------------------------Mount------------------
Ziyech--------------------Werner----------------------------Pulisic

Jorginho & Bakayoko look likely to be sold. RLC & Kovacic are the backup 8s. Drinkwater is a lost cause and will be sent on loan again.

So you'll need buyers for Bakayoko, Jorginho and Drinkwater. What a huge waste of money right? Thought Kante, Pedro, Willian and Giroud were all going too?

It's like a game of FM this.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

I imagine James will play. I've never mentioned he won't.

With regards to the others I'm sure they'll get games but the point that's being made is you're blocking pathways for them in the first team by spending lots of money on players who aren't particularly old and who you expect to be around for a long time. To try and compare that to United making one signing is brain dead especially when you consider we off loaded Lukaku to get Greenwood into the fold this season and he was only 17 at the time.

United are managing Greenwood (and Rashford who is still 22) very well. Adding Sancho to the fold will only be a benefit.

Again, only one pathway is being blocked. It's the exact same situation. Our academy players save Tammy will get more minutes next season. We don't have any first-team ready players in the academy being blocked - Gallagher is closest but he definitely needs a loan anyway.

 

[TheReligion]

Whats with all this havertz inclusions ? Have i missed something ???

It's your fans dream addition.. but it relegates your youth players to the doldrums.

 

[TheReligion]

Again, only one pathway is being blocked. It's the exact same situation. Our academy players save Tammy will get more minutes next season. We don't have any first-team ready players in the academy being blocked - Gallagher is closest but he definitely needs a loan anyway.

CHO and Tammy are being blocked and put on the bench. Both big money contracts. Mount will have to rotate and RLC will be anonymous.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

So you'll need buyers for Bakayoko, Jorginho and Drinkwater. What a huge waste of money right? Thought Kante, Pedro, Willian and Giroud were all going too?

It's like a game of FM this.

Juve want Jorginho. Milan & PSG are looking at Bakayoko. Drinkwater will go on loan or rot in the reserves, it makes no difference.

Pedro & Willian are going. Giroud signed a one year extension. Kante is an interesting one; if Real Madrid are actually going to offer €90m we should probably take it.

 

[MrMarcello]

Another decent thread being derailed with tangents and what ifs.

That was a fantastic goal from Pulisic's "weaker" foot. Good seeing him stepping up since the return. Long may it continue.