City and Financial Doping | Charged by PL with numerous FFP breaches

[cyberman]

Isn’t there a law saying if clubs go to outside courts they get expelled?

 

[MonkeysMagic]

It can't be hard for the PL clubs to have 16-4 majority to ratify this if 115 are the only club contesting it? And it'll also be interesting to see what happens when the hearing gets underway for 115 charges, particularly if their lawyers manage to get out with a paltry fine. The PL is a members club so surely the other clubs can vote to throw them out!

 

[redcucumber]

While we’re at it. Have there ever been meaningful stories about City‘s cheating coming from English papers? To me it feels like most of it comes from other countries.

What's almost as depressing as the husk that is City is how the U.K. has just allowed it to happen with absolutely feck all meaningful pushback. The media, the governing bodies etc. It makes a complete mockery of the sport, the fans, fair competition. Representative of what the country has become. Ineffectual and corrupt.

 

[Random Precision]

So Manchester City are essentially now the governing body of the Premier League.

It’s about Competition Law here in the UK, the PL are not exempt from those laws.

 

[Fortitude]

Turns out what was incredulous was the notion they’d misbehave just to compete and then fall in line.. in fact, since then: they’ve refused to cooperate beyond 2019; obfuscated at every turn and have made it clear that they will use their legal team to protract for as long as it takes; started to farm from “parent” clubs… and now, they’ve the brass neck to dictate to the league what it is or is not permitted to do…

They’re not quieting down; they are actively getting worse. Even if the issue was to deal with what they have done to get where they are, perhaps an even more pressing one is putting them in their place and in line with the conduct of everyone else. They are flagrant in acting above the laws in place to govern the league they have wilfully signed up to play in and their conduct is now openly mocking that and everything it is supposed to stand for. The league has created a monster it cannot handle and is actively being kept in the pen that was intended for it. All out in open display for us all to see.

 

[SilentWitness]

They've got backup too now with Newcastle and probably Chelsea. It's good that you have INEOS > Qatar too as you'd start doing this stuff also. We have also done it and tried it with Usmanov in regards to our stadium rights etc. Basically comes down to who the UK likes and doesn't like and doesn't want to piss off and don't care if they piss off. It's entrenched in politcs now.

 

[ShinjiNinja26]

I hope the PL do everyone a favour and boot this corrupt entity out of the league, and if they EFL have any sense then they’d refuse to accept them as well. Leave them in limbo.

 

[HTG]

Turns out what was incredulous was the notion they’d misbehave just to compete and then fall in line.. in fact, since then: they’ve refused to cooperate beyond 2019; obfuscated at every turn and have made it clear that they will use their legal team to protract for as long as it takes; started to farm from “parent” clubs… and now, they’ve the brass neck to dictate to the league what it is or is not permitted to do…

They’re not quieting down; they are actively getting worse. Even if the issue was to deal with what they have done to get where they are, perhaps an even more pressing one is putting them in their place and in line with the conduct of everyone else. They are flagrant in acting above the laws in place to govern the league they have wilfully signed up to play in and their conduct is now openly mocking that and everything it is supposed to stand for. The league has created a monster it cannot handle and is actively being kept in the pen that was intended for it. All out in open display for us all to see.

Great summary. And there is barely any reason to believe the league is able to put an end to this abomination.

 

[Fortitude]

Great summary. And there is barely any reason to believe the league is able to put an end to this abomination.

Evidently it’s growing before our eyes - even if you’re of the opinion they had a right to break the old club monopoly, what they’re doing now is going beyond that to establish their own order, which is quite something when you consider the unassuming acorns all this originated from.

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

It’s about Competition Law here in the UK, the PL are not exempt from those laws.

Which is bollox.

They’ve been down this road before … “poor us, nasty PL are running a cartel and preventing fair competition. Boo hoo…”

Conveniently ignoring artificially inflating deals and making off books payments…. which is also anti competitive in itself.

Bunch of complete w@nkers.

(edit. 2021. PL tried to put more transparency in reviewing the details of contracts to prevent anti competitive agreements being put in place without any checks. Response from two clubs… “leave us alone, we’re voting no”. Just two clubs…..)

 

[Ayoba]

But as long as long as the media doesn't do their job and plaster their wrongdoings left, right and centre it won't really be meaningless for them. Their efforts at sportswashing in the US are bearing fruit.

100%

The media love in is just ridiculous.

 

[Rooney in Paris]

100%

The media love in is just ridiculous.

The media are entirely complicit in this. They have a vested interest in the status quo being maintained, and will mostly just shut up about it.

The fact that every article about City doesn't begin and end with an exhaustive list of their alleged (but documented thanks to the leaks) wrongdoings is frankly insane. The fact the waters are constantly muddled with "yeah but they play pretty football" just ensures the perception of them is not in line with their actual behaviour as a club.

The media have dropped the ball big time with them, but I doubt they ever intended on carrying said ball anyway.

 

[Adisa]

I used to be apathetic about their financial doping because we, also have spent a lot of money but they really are a disgusting club.

 

[RoyH1]

The media are entirely complicit in this. They have a vested interest in the status quo being maintained, and will mostly just shut up about it.

The fact that every article about City doesn't begin and end with an exhaustive list of their alleged (but documented thanks to the leaks) wrongdoings is frankly insane. The fact the waters are constantly muddled with "yeah but they play pretty football" just ensures the perception of them is not in line with their actual behaviour as a club.

The media have dropped the ball big time with them, but I doubt they ever intended on carrying said ball anyway.

I bet if you look at advertising and sponsors of said papers you'd find some answers to as to why they don't. And the one's that don't are probably terrified of their army of lawyers.

 

[adexkola]

Apprently it’s just down to City having an abnormal amount of prime time kick offs compared to others

Makes sense. On this side of the pond we're less enamored about teams that have history from 30 years ago and would rather watch more quality games. The prime team on US TV a decade plus ago was United because we were winning in the moment. Now it's City

They also didn't count the number of times I've watched United on illegal streams, that would push United back into first place

They really, really don't want to play fair do they? I wonder why...

Actually this should be welcomed by all. The PL is a private group but even they aren't allowed to violate English law. If the PL believes it's reforms are fair and good, they shouldn't be scared by City, they should have the debate and let a neutral party knowledgeable about competition law decide what the rules should be.

And most have been complaining about the opaqueness of the current proceedings against City. The last thing anyone wants is the PL backing down and scrapping proposed reforms that may be legitimate.

 

[RoyH1]

I used to be apathetic about their financial doping because we, also have spent a lot of money but they really are a disgusting club.

Yes we have spent a lot of silly money but our sponsorships don't come from a Glazer owned company or their friends. They are real sponsorships based on real market value on the basis of companies wanting to use our brand to expand their outreach.

 

[HTG]

I bet if you look at advertising and sponsors of said papers you'd find some answers to as to why they don't. And the one's that don't are probably terrified of their army of lawyers.

Very likely.

Though I’d like to add that while I think it’s great and only right to criticise the government and the media for their part in all this, I still believe that the premier league fans, not just those of City, get an unwarranted free pass in most of these discussions. Instead of doing whatever they could to stop all this shit, a whole lot of them sat back, doing nothing and hoped their club might also be „chosen“ in the same way. And when it happened to them, they actually cheered their new generous owners, as could be seen with Newcastle.
The government and media failed the fans. But the fans failed themselves and the game.

 

[El Zoido]

I used to be apathetic about their financial doping because we, also have spent a lot of money but they really are a disgusting club.

They’ve spent 10x what they report. Nobody else comes even remotely close.

 

[Rooney in Paris]

Very likely.

Though I’d like to add that while I think it’s great and only right to criticise the government and the media for their part in all this, I still believe that the premier league fans, not just those of City, get an unwarranted free pass in most of these discussions. Instead of doing whatever they could to stop all this shit, a whole lot of them sat back, doing nothing and hoped their club might also be „chosen“ in the same way. And when it happened to them, they actually cheered their new generous owners, as could be seen with Newcastle.
The government and media failed the fans. But the fans failed themselves and the game.

What do you suggest the fans should have done?

 

[tomaldinho1]

I used to be apathetic about their financial doping because we, also have spent a lot of money but they really are a disgusting club.

The silly thing is they would still have been successful doing things by the book, not as successful, but it would have been better for the league. Imagine their team without a few of their key signings and more youth players, they'd still have won a few PL's, it's not like there's a real powerhouse team with United in the doldrums, Chelsea being very hit and miss and Pool having a few years of being very good, also having some mediocre years.

 

[adexkola]

Very likely.

Though I’d like to add that while I think it’s great and only right to criticise the government and the media for their part in all this, I still believe that the premier league fans, not just those of City, get an unwarranted free pass in most of these discussions. Instead of doing whatever they could to stop all this shit, a whole lot of them sat back, doing nothing and hoped their club might also be „chosen“ in the same way. And when it happened to them, they actually cheered their new generous owners, as could be seen with Newcastle.
The government and media failed the fans. But the fans failed themselves and the game.

Like what exactly?

 

[Rnd898]

They've got backup too now with Newcastle and probably Chelsea. It's good that you have INEOS > Qatar too as you'd start doing this stuff also. We have also done it and tried it with Usmanov in regards to our stadium rights etc. Basically comes down to who the UK likes and doesn't like and doesn't want to piss off and don't care if they piss off. It's entrenched in politcs now.

What's happening with the Everton takeover btw? 777 Partners also own 4 clubs across Europe and one in Brazil.

Everton voted against the related party loan rules a couple months ago and it's not unplausible to think they could be against any future rule changes too, if the takeover goes through.

 

[HTG]

What do you suggest the fans should have done?

Organise and protest. At every stadium at every game. Doesn’t mean you’ll achieve success. But at least you tried. But sitting back in an apathetic manner and blaming the media and government for everything doesn’t change anything.
I still think whatever pushback there was, was shockingly little and unorganised.
And that’s part of why the government and media can do as they please. They have nothing to fear by those affected.

 

[Fridge chutney]

It's a slippery slope. It needs to be stopped entirely before we're in a huge mess of every single club being under an umbrella of ownership and players moving around the same pathways. It's dull and as I said, ruins the integrity of it all.

Well said. It's sport. If you start cheating, what's the point? It becomes completely hollow.

 

[adexkola]

Organise and protest. At every stadium at every game. Doesn’t mean you’ll achieve success. But at least you tried. But sitting back in an apathetic manner and blaming the media and government for everything doesn’t change anything.
I still think whatever pushback there was, was shockingly little and unorganised.
And that’s part of why the government and media can do as they please. They have nothing to fear by those affected.

There hasn't been information out there for fans to protest until recent years.

And seems like an unusual burden on fans who's primary motive is to support their team. Now they have to protest against another team as well because the PL and authorities aren't doing their jobs?

And we saw what the Glazer protests got: the sum of feck all. The PL don't listen to fans. Why would this have been different?

 

[Rooney in Paris]

Organise and protest. At every stadium at every game. Doesn’t mean you’ll achieve success. But at least you tried. But sitting back in an apathetic manner and blaming the media and government for everything doesn’t change anything.
I still think whatever pushback there was, was shockingly little and unorganised.
And that’s part of why the government and media can do as they please. They have nothing to fear by those affected.

It's fine in theory but it would have led to nothing and would have been ignored. It's also unfair to blame the current situation on the fans when they've been fed misinformation for about a couple of decades. I know that this comes from a place of fans being more integrated into the structure of the game as it is in Germany, but this is just not the case in English football (and I know you would argue that that's a bad thing and that's fine) which therefore means you have an entirely different context and playing field and it's unrealistic to have this expectation - and unfair to assign blame on the fans.

 

[mctrials23]

Does sportswashing work or do people simply not care. I don't think any better or worse of any oil states due to their involvement in any of the sports I follow.

 

[HTG]

It's fine in theory but it would have led to nothing and would have been ignored. It's also unfair to blame the current situation on the fans when they've been fed misinformation for about a couple of decades. I know that this comes from a place of fans being more integrated into the structure of the game as it is in Germany, but this is just not the case in English football (and I know you would argue that that's a bad thing and that's fine) which therefore means you have an entirely different context and playing field and it's unrealistic to have this expectation - and unfair to assign blame on the fans.

I disagree. I know you’re lacking structure and organisation. Which is why I don’t understand at all why nobody seems to do anything to change that. What else needs to happen for fans to see the need to organise themselves and reclaim their game?
And to avoid any misunderstandings. The media and the government share the most and biggest part of the blame. By far. But the apathetic behaviour of the fans is a factor as well. And maybe English fans should work on changing that.

 

[MegadrivePerson]

Another episode from Etihad

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Wouldn't Chelsea be opposed to this as well?

That deal they did with Infinite Athlete is incredibly dodgy. They are a California based startup and owned by Charlie Ebersol who is a friend of Todd Boehly.

They are sponsoring Chelsea £43 million a year despite the company not being worth anywhere near that amount!

 

[Rooney in Paris]

I disagree. I know you’re lacking structure and organisation. Which is why I don’t understand at all why nobody seems to do anything to change that. What else needs to happen for fans to see the need to organise themselves and reclaim their game?
And to avoid any misunderstandings. The media and the government share the most and biggest part of the blame. By far. But the apathetic behaviour of the fans is a factor as well. And maybe English fans should work on changing that.

Apathetic is unfair. Fans have been vocal on this. Disorganised and lacking a coherent structure approach would be fairer.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Does sportswashing work or do people simply not care. I don't think any better or worse of any oil states due to their involvement in any of the sports I follow.

The change in perception of the general public takes time but you can see it, just look at the number of sports events and celebrities now living/competing in Saudi for example.

The real danger of sportswashing isn't this though, and City are a perfect example, it is that these countries become so entwined and influential in the domestic affairs of other countries, that they can influence key decisions. City's owners, as in the literal owners given who they are, are involved in supporting Russia in their illegal invasion of Ukraine, yet the football club that has been built on this type of dirty money is frequently lauded as being a great business model, an example for others and their multitude of charges is never mentioned because the media only care about who is giving them hefty donations, not the actual stories. The UAE are literally trying to buy The Telegraph right now, how much more proof do people need that these countries are actively trying to influence other country's domestic affairs.

 

[rimaldo]

Relegate them to the counties league, have the Etihad knocked down and used for spare parts to build new Trafford.

Give Pep a big slap right upon his shiny dome

they can keep their trophies, as long as pep is put in stocks outside old trafford, and people are allowed to smack his head with a fresh trout.

 

[McGrathsipan]

The proper clubs should boycott the fixtures - feck them.

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

Relegate them to the counties league, have the Etihad knocked down and used for spare parts to build new Trafford.

Give Pep a big slap right upon his shiny dome

All form an orderly queue …

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[HTG]

Apathetic is unfair. Fans have been vocal on this. Disorganised and lacking a coherent structure approach would be fairer.

That’s fair.
The important thing is that all this can change. And thanks to social media, much quicker than it used to. I really hope English fans will understand this and start to organise. It’s long overdue.

 

[Rooney in Paris]

That’s fair.
The important thing is that all this can change. And thanks to social media, much quicker than it used to. I really hope English fans will understand this and start to organise. It’s long overdue.

Again, I believe you're putting an unfair burden on fans. It's never going to happen the way you think it is, and that's ok. And that doesn't mean they're "apathetic". The issues are well known and should be dealt with by the governing bodies, reported on fairly and in an unbiased way by the media.

 

[SilentWitness]

What's happening with the Everton takeover btw? 777 Partners also own 4 clubs across Europe and one in Brazil.

Everton voted against the related party loan rules a couple months ago and it's not unplausible to think they could be against any future rule changes too, if the takeover goes through.

I'm a little worried about it. It's still ongoing in terms of PL approval but in the meantime they're loaning us money for the running of the club. Either way it's a murky future as an Everton fan. Pending relegation, more deductions and owners nobody really wants (both Moshiri and 777).

 

[duffer]

I think that was already gone when a certain Russian oligarch purchased Chelsea. City are just the logical continuation.

Just call him Roman if you can't spell his surname!

 

[duffer]

Like what exactly?

Boycott. It's the only thing what would have a chance of working.

 

[Solius]

Boycott. It's the only thing what would have a chance of working.

Would be very funny if the other 19 clubs all agreed to never play them and held their own winner's ceremony at the end for whoever finishes 2nd (since I'm assuming City would win every game by default until the league felt they had to step in)