City and Financial Doping | Charged by PL with numerous FFP breaches

[FootballHQ]

Nah they were winning Leagues before Pep and they will win them after. This is not like Liverpool who will drop post-Klopp.

It's the mentality though as one of the posters said above to be near perfect from February-May in league while juggling other competitions. That's just what Guardiola does.

They could appoint someone like Ancelotti and probably win another CL and domestic cups but I just don't think they'd be as relentless in the league under that type of manager, same with Tuchel.

As said before they had fantastic teams under Pellegrini and Mancini. Didn't reach 90 points in either season though and then a considerable drop off the next year.

 

[Fortitude]

Exactly. City's success is entirely artificial and no amount of media fawning can make it real and authentic. Unfortunately, it’s going to gain them a lot of fans and make their success self-sustaining. Seeing them break our records is heartbreaking, especially because of how many people will view it as legitimate.

Their egg stained support can celebrate another four in a row and another treble as much as they like (all four of them on Deansgate)…but what they will never have, no matter how much they crave it, is that glamour, aura and prestige surrounding the club. They will always be a state owned skid mark on the game with a shit load of trophies.

If they are never officially done for the cheating, Fergie's records will fade over time as secondary to what we're witnessing. All the stuff he forged from the ground up, all the nurturing and development will go by the wayside as far as the history of the PL tells it.

Records come and go, and his being surpassed is one thing - passing the baton from one dynasty to another is how those things work - but to know it's all being pilfered by a cheating entity, and that history won't say a thing about that, is the pits.

I think this is where their cheating directly affects us more than any other club in the land because it's our records that are being lined up and shot down. All that graft and the stories behind it are getting scrubbed as if done so by a the next great team through the history of the league, which makes this so much more farcical. City have squatted and taken a great, steaming dump on the history of English football with the OK of those in charge who are eager to legitimise them, which is why this talk of punishment seems more far-fetched the more they win and the more it's lionised by the media and the governing bodies.

 

[LordSpud]

It's the mentality though as one of the posters said above to be near perfect from February-May in league while juggling other competitions. That's just what Guardiola does.

They could appoint someone like Ancelotti and probably win another CL and domestic cups but I just don't think they'd be as relentless in the league under that type of manager, same with Tuchel.

As said before they had fantastic teams under Pellegrini and Mancini. Didn't reach 90 points in either season though and then a considerable drop off the next year.

Oh also don't forget Pep has.. you know.. help

Just don't be surprised when he goes if the players suddenly don't run as much, get more frequent injuries and start to show their age!

 

[thisisnottaken1]

If they are never officially done for the cheating, Fergie's records will fade over time as secondary to what we're witnessing. All the stuff he forged from the ground up, all the nurturing and development will go by the wayside as far as the history of the PL tells it.

Records come and go, and his being surpassed is one thing - passing the baton from one dynasty to another is how those things work - but to know it's all being pilfered by a cheating entity, and that history won't say a thing about that, is the pits.

I think this is where their cheating directly affects us more than any other club in the land because it's our records that are being lined up and shot down. All that graft and the stories behind it are getting scrubbed as if done so by a the next great team through the history of the league, which makes this so much more farcical. City have squatted and taken a great, steaming dump on the history of English football with the OK of those in charge who are eager to legitimise them, which is why this talk of punishment seems more far-fetched the more they win and the more it's lionised by the media and the governing bodies.

Well said.

 

[VivaObertan]

Won the UCL the season they were meant to be banned from the UCL for cheating.

Broke the consecutive PL wins record the season they were being investigated for 115 charges relating to cheating in PL.

Cool

 

[OldSchoolManc]

I see people say that its baffling about the City fans and it is to logical folk, but to give them a little defence, I can guarantee you if United were in this situation 70% of the Caf would be like that percent of City fans, theres 10% who admit what they think is truth and a further 20ish percent who deny them in public but deep down they know.
You just have to look at the VAR thread and find all the "we're reffed different guys" if you think I'm lying... see those guys combine them with the Qatar ownership thread and you'll have quite the number to get started. People are just weirdly biased about football clubs, clubs who see them as nothing but statistics instead of taking a step back and seeing the bigger picture they live vicariously through them..

Honestly the only thing that's really changed for me with City recently is inside of the one being bullied during football banter I'm the one doing the bullying. Truth is football is just a game to me, one I quite enjoy but just a game all the same (unless I'm drinking). I'll never understand people for who winning or losing makes or breaks their week. I've got too many more important variables for that than a football club (wife, kids, family, job, friends. etc...)

This is exactly why I’m happy that Qatar were unsuccessful with their bid for United. Whatever happens under INEOS (although they are still a corporate capitalist bastard), no football club should be owned by a state or country. There are too many political factors involved, never mind the financial power.

 

[LordSpud]

If they are never officially done for the cheating...

That is the line for me. If they are never done for all this, then I'm out because what's the fecking point in the whole thing?

 

[hp88]

United won 4/5 and 7/9 in the 90's, a couple of doubles in there as well, very unlucky in the 95 season, so it could have easily been 8 out of 9 titles and 5 in a row.

If we were more competitive in Europe / there wasn't a ban on English teams, it could have been success that will never matched.

So is this how opposing fans felt? We have the whole unknown element of the 115 charges, how it has been done etc.. but in terms of never being able to compete again, did others feel that way in the 90's when speaking of United?

Fair point, I think majority of rivals felt like they were going up against a team which they had no chance of beating but the difference between us and them is what we did was organic, in my eyes we won it clean.

Glad we never saw this but Klopp winning 4 in a row would have been easier to swallow for the neutrals.

 

[Red in STL]

I'm not on Bluemoon. Someone did tag me to tell me their was a thread calling me a rag over there couple of years ago but thats about the height of my interaction with the place. I do occasionally browse it and have friends there but I like being in places where the debate is more neutral and for all my issues with the ups and downs of this place, it is about as fair to oppo supporter as you could possibly expect. I mean you guys even put up with Dumbstar. I couldn't see many City or Pool forums putting up with some of you guys the way you guys do with us.

Not sure I'd call the CAF more neutral, the "debates" in the matchday and performance threads puts entrenched policticans to shame!

 

[Tincanalley]

Fair debate must be hard to come by and I can understand why own teams forums will be obviously weighted.
But again, fair play to you for your balanced views

Well said.

 

[always_hoping]

Fair point, I think majority of rivals felt like they were going up against a team which they had no chance of beating but the difference between us and them is what we did was organic, in my eyes we won it clean.

Glad we never saw this but Klopp winning 4 in a row would have been easier to swallow for the neutrals.

Not so sure about that, Klopp's one league title in front of empty Anfield was more than enough for neutrals to shallow.

 

[Djemba-Djemba]

I see people say that its baffling about the City fans and it is to logical folk, but to give them a little defence, I can guarantee you if United were in this situation 70% of the Caf would be like that percent of City fans, theres 10% who admit what they think is truth and a further 20ish percent who deny them in public but deep down they know.
You just have to look at the VAR thread and find all the "we're reffed different guys" if you think I'm lying... see those guys combine them with the Qatar ownership thread and you'll have quite the number to get started. People are just weirdly biased about football clubs, clubs who see them as nothing but statistics instead of taking a step back and seeing the bigger picture they live vicariously through them..

Honestly the only thing that's really changed for me with City recently is instead of the one being bullied during football banter I'm the one doing the bullying. Truth is football is just a game to me, one I quite enjoy but just a game all the same (unless I'm drinking). I'll never understand people for who winning or losing makes or breaks their week. I've got too many more important variables for that than a football club (wife, kids, family, job, friends. etc...)

That's a fair point yeah and I agree.

 

[sangria]

Their egg stained support can celebrate another four in a row and another treble as much as they like (all four of them on Deansgate)…but what they will never have, no matter how much they crave it, is that glamour, aura and prestige surrounding the club. They will always be a state owned skid mark on the game with a shit load of trophies.

And this is how traditional fans comfort themselves whilst seeing the City fanbase grow and grow due to their current success, and those traditional fans will still prize their traditional rivalries over opposing City, because all City's success feels hollow to them. It's not going to matter how it feels to you once the next generation are baked in. City are the enemy, over and above all other forms of traditional support.

 

[padr81]

Not sure I'd call the CAF more neutral, the "debates" in the matchday and performance threads puts entrenched policticans to shame!

I shoulda been more clear, I meant for me. Like I can come in here and disagree with you guys and there'll be the occasional flare up on both sides but nothing crazy. You guys would be perma banned elsewhere.

 

[Red in STL]

The most annoying bit is their recent bandwagon fans who want to talk about united. A bunch of football illiterate fools.

Whilst true I think that also applies to a certain % of the CAF

 

[padr81]

This is exactly why I’m happy that Qatar were unsuccessful with their bid for United. Whatever happens under INEOS (although they are still a corporate capitalist bastard), no football club should be owned by a state or country. There are too many political factors involved, never mind the financial power.

Fair play, I'll gladly hold my hand up and say I drank the kool aid when it first happened Live and learn I guess.

 

[Red in STL]

I shoulda been more clear, I meant for me. Like I can come in here and disagree with you guys and there'll be the occasional flare up on both sides but nothing crazy. You guys would be perma banned elsewhere.

That's how it should be, TBH there's a few I think should probably be perma-banned in here never mind elsewhere!

 

[eire-red]

Fair play good honest post and charges aside its probably exactly how I felt. You guys felt like an unstoppable juggernaut till Roman came along.
I think theres more drama with City even if there was no charges simply because of the rise of the internet etc... but while the charges are there, they're clearly a huge factor in all this.

People would probably feel the same about the state of the league without them though simply cause of state ownership and people are far more politically aware now than say when Roman bought Chelsea or even when the Thai guy bought City.

100% this. Watching Sky Sports is painful now. If City win 4 in a row, Richards will be drawing up the comparisons with United of old, talking of how this surpasses anything done before.

It's like when Carragher picked the combined 11 from the 19/20 Liverpool team and the United treble team with Keane, and Keane just had no interest because how could you compare one season with that team?

Watching pundits is more akin to Fan TV now, everything is sensationalised and there's too much comparison / using achievements of X to diminish Y etc etc..

I'm a United fan, I don't think anything will ever beat the romance of the Class of 92, just like City fans will never forget the Pep era and will claim they are the best. Is there one right view? No.

Maybe it's just selective memory from me, but I feel there was less bitterness about United back then. Maybe just the modern footballer / clubs are less likeable too, even your own respective team.

 

[eire-red]

Fair point, I think majority of rivals felt like they were going up against a team which they had no chance of beating but the difference between us and them is what we did was organic, in my eyes we won it clean.

Glad we never saw this but Klopp winning 4 in a row would have been easier to swallow for the neutrals.

Yeah that will always be the sticking point, and maybe that made it easier for others to swallow, outside of Liverpool that is.

However, I think times are different now. It doesn't matter to most how it is done, only that it's their side on top, and for the media they just want a narrative.

City's potential dirty laundry would have taken up many more column inches and been a much greater sticking point 2 or 3 decades ago. It's barely written about these days, because the story about the success gets more clicks and keeps certain people relevant.

 

[Red in STL]

100% this. Watching Sky Sports is painful now. If City win 4 in a row, Richards will be drawing up the comparisons with United of old, talking of how this surpasses anything done before.

It's like when Carragher picked the combined 11 from the 19/20 Liverpool team and the United treble team with Keane, and Keane just had no interest because how could you compare one season with that team?

Watching pundits is more akin to Fan TV now, everything is sensationalised and there's too much comparison / using achievements of X to diminish Y etc etc..

I'm a United fan, I don't think anything will ever beat the romance of the Class of 92, just like City fans will never forget the Pep era and will claim they are the best. Is there one right view? No.

Maybe it's just selective memory from me, but I feel there was less bitterness about United back then. Maybe just the modern footballer / clubs are less likeable too, even your own respective team.

Selective memory, everyone hated us and were very bitter about it, the difference between now and then is social media

 

[JB7]

100% this. Watching Sky Sports is painful now. If City win 4 in a row, Richards will be drawing up the comparisons with United of old, talking of how this surpasses anything done before.

It's like when Carragher picked the combined 11 from the 19/20 Liverpool team and the United treble team with Keane, and Keane just had no interest because how could you compare one season with that team?

Watching pundits is more akin to Fan TV now, everything is sensationalised and there's too much comparison / using achievements of X to diminish Y etc etc..

I'm a United fan, I don't think anything will ever beat the romance of the Class of 92, just like City fans will never forget the Pep era and will claim they are the best. Is there one right view? No.

Maybe it's just selective memory from me, but I feel there was less bitterness about United back then. Maybe just the modern footballer / clubs are less likeable too, even your own respective team.

There was so much bitterness that those people who grew up hating us, still hate us 30 years later and have made their children hate us too.

 

[The Irish Connection]

I see people say that its baffling about the City fans and it is to logical folk, but to give them a little defence, I can guarantee you if United were in this situation 70% of the Caf would be like that percent of City fans, theres 10% who admit what they think is truth and a further 20ish percent who deny them in public but deep down they know.
You just have to look at the VAR thread and find all the "we're reffed different guys" if you think I'm lying... see those guys combine them with the Qatar ownership thread and you'll have quite the number to get started. People are just weirdly biased about football clubs, clubs who see them as nothing but statistics instead of taking a step back and seeing the bigger picture they live vicariously through them..

Honestly the only thing that's really changed for me with City recently is instead of the one being bullied during football banter I'm the one doing the bullying. Truth is football is just a game to me, one I quite enjoy but just a game all the same (unless I'm drinking). I'll never understand people for who winning or losing makes or breaks their week. I've got too many more important variables for that than a football club (wife, kids, family, job, friends. etc...)

Nah I disagree, but maybe I’m being naive.
I feel a lot more of our fans would be disgusted at the potential of endemic cheating and would be honest with themselves.

But it’s like comparing apples with oranges on a social level. You’d have to rewrite our club history to get a similar reaction.
Your fans have had a chip on your shoulders due to being in the lower leagues and us dominating/ being the bigger club for decades. Then Abu Dhabi came in but the chip was still there, and I feel that plays a huge part psychologically with the defensiveness and delusion of City fans.
You said it yourself, you guys are now doing the bullying but the chip on the shoulder is still there so you will never feel guilty about it.

With the Qatar thing for us, I believe the split was around 50/50.

Edit: obviously your the exception, and some other city fans will be similar

 

[eire-red]

Selective memory, everyone hated us and were very bitter about it, the difference between now and then is social media

There was so much bitterness that those people who grew up hating us, still hate us 30 years later and have made their children hate us too.

Fair enough!

For the record, I definitely think there was plenty of bitterness, I just meant less. But there was also a bit of grudging respect too.

 

[JB7]

Fair enough!

For the record, I definitely think there was plenty of bitterness, I just meant less. But there was also a bit of grudging respect too.

Perhaps yeah, but I really don't sense this bitterness with City at all from other clubs. I speak to matchgoers at a lot of PL clubs and generally speaking the majority don't care either way about them.

 

[eire-red]

Perhaps yeah, but I really don't sense this bitterness with City at all from other clubs. I speak to matchgoers at a lot of PL clubs and generally speaking the majority don't care either way about them.

Yeah I get that too. For me personally, I have to admit that the casual dismissal of their success is more a coping mechanism to say I'm not deeply bitter about them.

For me, the 115 charges is just another avenue to reinforce that, but being honest with myself, I think with Pep in charge they would have had exactly the same success whether they cooked the books or not.

 

[MrMarcello]

It's the mentality though as one of the posters said above to be near perfect from February-May in league while juggling other competitions. That's just what Guardiola does.

They could appoint someone like Ancelotti and probably win another CL and domestic cups but I just don't think they'd be as relentless in the league under that type of manager, same with Tuchel.

As said before they had fantastic teams under Pellegrini and Mancini. Didn't reach 90 points in either season though and then a considerable drop off the next year.

They also have a machine in-place in the backroom staff which will continue identifying and signing key talents and flogging off those that don't live up to standard. The next manager can easily walk the league at a 3-in-4 pace with this continuity and structure remaining intact, similar to Bayern.

Unless they sign a Moyes type perhaps but they'll likely sign the proper manager that fits the club ethos and philosophy.

 

[FootballHQ]

They also have a machine in-place in the backroom staff which will continue identifying and signing key talents and flogging off those that don't live up to standard. The next manager can easily walk the league at a 3-in-4 pace with this continuity and structure remaining intact, similar to Bayern.

Unless they sign a Moyes type perhaps but they'll likely sign the proper manager that fits the club ethos and philosophy.

It will actually be interesting to see who they target in a few years. It was said years back that Brendan Rodgers was someone very highly rated within their hierarchy but little chance of that now as it would be Moyes esque.

Get the feeling Pep would recommend someone like De Zerbi but Liverpool overlooked him given Brighton's disappointing second half of the season. Maresca just got Leicester up so see if he has the same issues playing out from the back and not adapting as Kompany did.

Probably one of the best fits would be Arteta but that would be a nuclear reaction if he quit Arsenal to join Man. City.

If you want a Guardiola profile of someone endlessly winning leagues/CLs it would be Ancelotti but that's someone right at the end of his coaching career now compared to others mentioned above.

 

[Pscholes18]

https://x.com/TenHagEra/status/1790492511267410375

 

[Nicolarra90]

And while all this is happening, all the other clubs are still glorying in their traditional rivalries. Liverpool fans celebrate United losing to City. United fans celebrate Liverpool losing to City. Spurs fans celebrate Arsenal losing to City. Until everyone puts their rivalries aside to see City (and in time, Newcastle) as the enemy of all, traditional rivalries are the curse of football.

So many blind people that can't or maybe don't want to see this. It's already too late.

 

[Juicy Juiced]

So many blind people that can't or maybe don't want to see this. It's already too late.

Everyone was laughing at us when we lost title on the last day, then I didn't see a lot Liverpool fans laughing in their Klopp's era and I doubt that Arsenal fans find last 2 years very amusing.

A lot of clubs and fans can't see a bigger picture. City will probably win next 7 of
10 titles. They are basicaly playing on cheat mode. I already wrote, clubs should just refuse to play against them. If the FA is making circus of EPL then let them have it.

 

[croadyman]

And the political power as well. If United or Arsenal had been done for 115 charges it would have been done and dusted long ago. But it’s City, and it’s basically the PL vs the UAE.

Yeah and sadly PL cannot compete with the might of UAE so will only be one winner on this. Obviously it will never happen in a million years but how I would love the other teams to unite and threaten not to play City unless action is taken against them.

 

[Fridge chutney]

It is incredibly embarassing and bad for the Premier League that a team with 115 charges hanging over them, a team whose owners pay the refs who officiate that same team, a team that is owned and backed by a fecking state, has steamrolled the league for a 4th year running.

It makes a mockery of the "competition". I think it devalues it entirely.

 

[Irrational.]

The PL faffing around with their charge sheet and dick in hand approach has essentially meant City have cantered to another record breaking title without breaking a sweat, whilst they have immediately docked point from clubs they consider lesser for much smaller crimes.

The PL truly are a pathetic, spineless, incompetent and corrupt organisation. Just like their mates at UEFA.

 

[croadyman]

The PL faffing around with their charge sheet and dick in hand approach has essentially meant City have cantered to another record breaking title without breaking a sweat, whilst they have immediately docked point from clubs they consider lesser for much smaller crimes.

The PL truly are a pathetic, spineless, incompetent and corrupt organisation. Just like their mates at UEFA.

I am done with PL when they get away with it but will always have the cup competitions to watch

 

[Winrar]

Have to give credit to City. Their 4peat would be just as impressive and remarkable as Lance Armstrong’s Tour de France 7peat.

 

[croadyman]

Won the UCL the season they were meant to be banned from the UCL for cheating.

Broke the consecutive PL wins record the season they were being investigated for 115 charges relating to cheating in PL.

Cool

That has to be the biggest farce and then just to rub salt in the wound that was part of a treble too

 

[Beachryan]

The PL leadership exist to push the product. Success is measured in eyeballs and money, nothing else. If the media eco system doesn't care that the dominant team might be cheating, neither do the PL.

The only way City will get properly punished is if the product was at risk. If fans started forcing broadcasters to acknowledge the idiocy of it. But none have. There are no protests, no walk outs. Barely a whimper as we hope they'll do the right thing.

So why would the PL act? And that's before the clear influence on the UK power structure.

It's just an excellent example of sportswashing working. City are even good at that. Which isn't hard when you have unlimited money and no concept of adhering to laws or regulations.

 

[Garnacho's Shoelaces]

The PL faffing around with their charge sheet and dick in hand approach has essentially meant City have cantered to another record breaking title without breaking a sweat, whilst they have immediately docked point from clubs they consider lesser for much smaller crimes.

The PL truly are a pathetic, spineless, incompetent and corrupt organisation. Just like their mates at UEFA.

Everton and Forest admitted their breaches, so proceedings moved straight to the sanctions.

City are taking theirs to a panel and have actively frustrated the investigation and proceedings.

Preparation to prosecute/defend the most widespread amd longstanding corruption scheme known to any modern sport is not going to be resolved overnight.

The EPL can either deal with them quickly or correctly. Not both. I know which one I'd choose to prevent any opportunity to appeal to any higher authority (albeit the EPL's constitution infers they are the highest authority).

 

[croadyman]

The PL leadership exist to push the product. Success is measured in eyeballs and money, nothing else. If the media eco system doesn't care that the dominant team might be cheating, neither do the PL.

The only way City will get properly punished is if the product was at risk. If fans started forcing broadcasters to acknowledge the idiocy of it. But none have. There are no protests, no walk outs. Barely a whimper as we hope they'll do the right thing.

So why would the PL act? And that's before the clear influence on the UK power structure.

It's just an excellent example of sportswashing working. City are even good at that. Which isn't hard when you have unlimited money and no concept of adhering to laws or regulations.

Yeah it's a sad end to a once competitive league,like you say no one is willing to call these cheats out because no risk to the product unfortunately

 

[croadyman]

Everton and Forest admitted their breaches, so proceedings moved straight to the sanctions.

City are taking theirs to a panel and have actively frustrated the investigation and proceedings.

Preparation to prosecute/defend the most widespread amd longstanding corruption scheme known to any modern sport is not going to be resolved overnight.

The EPL can either deal with them quickly or correctly. Not both. I know which one I'd choose to prevent any opportunity to appeal to any higher authority (albeit the EPL's constitution infers they are the highest authority).

City have already walked all over Premier League