This discussion wouldn't go anywhere really. You think it's mostly down to fatigue, I think it's more a mentality problem. Either way we've been really poor in our opening games.
City show there are NO excuses for our opening day flop | Utd return the favour GW2
- Thread starter Ranchero
- Start date
Ooh look, big clubs like Dortmund, Bayern Munich and Man City do actually lose games and other clubs like Chelsea, Spurs and Juve can actually drop points.
Wow, who would have thought it.
Wow, who would have thought it.
If he's not fit do not play him, are you kidding me? Also, you have zero clue of the effect of the virus on Pogba.
Maybe this is just wind-up? Would make more sense.
No doubt United are suffering from a lack of pre season as are plenty of others and people arguing lack of pre season is just another excuse are being ridiculous.
But some of the decisions for starters have been weird, Pogba for instance, just recovered from Covid looks clearly off the pace at the moment, where as DvB looks great. I know Pogba needs minutes but why not start DvB and then bring on Pogba for 20-30 mins in second half?
AWB also looks short of match practice, so makes sense he missed the first game, but again warm him up and ease him in, TFM was better than most against Palace (not saying much) so why is AWB going from no minutes to two full matches?
You will certainly improve as the games come thick and fast as a lot of your players are quality and just need match sharpness. But I think there are questions to be asked at the moment.
But some of the decisions for starters have been weird, Pogba for instance, just recovered from Covid looks clearly off the pace at the moment, where as DvB looks great. I know Pogba needs minutes but why not start DvB and then bring on Pogba for 20-30 mins in second half?
AWB also looks short of match practice, so makes sense he missed the first game, but again warm him up and ease him in, TFM was better than most against Palace (not saying much) so why is AWB going from no minutes to two full matches?
You will certainly improve as the games come thick and fast as a lot of your players are quality and just need match sharpness. But I think there are questions to be asked at the moment.
City looked so leggy yesterday. It’s a result of the times, but clubs being in totally different levels of preparation will show. City result last night does show that. No way this Leicester team gets that result with both teams fully fit.
I worry for our game against Spurs.
I worry for our game against Spurs.
A lot of teams dream about chasing signing for all summer and still miss out. Technically speaking nightmares are dreams as well.
It's weird isnt it? I find our fan base to be the least supportive of their club. They got that inability to support the team unless the club are able to compete for the titles every year. This leads to players getting picked on unnecessarily as well as my favourite - moaning about what Woodward should be doing (what player we should buy, what manager we should hire); only for the fans to pretend like they didnt ask for it when it all ends up failing.
The fans pressures were a big reason why Jose was hired after LVG (poor choice one after another yet everyone was crying out for it) & then was crazy about signing a player like Pogba. When it all disappoints they just turn their hand do it and pretend like they didnt ask for it, pretending like he isnt good enough whenever possible. Same thing with Rashford; RVP talks about how his injury took a year to recover & fans all over were saying they dont rate the guy anymore. Our fan base is not one of my favourite aspects of the club.
Some fans aren’t really fans these days, mainly due to the internet.
I think for the most part people just want something to brag about.
Either by winning trophies or a massive signing in the transfer window.
It’s a long season, fans need to at least support in the early days, turning on the team this early is bizarre.
It's only us, and we s*** no matter what is the right mindset, didn't you get the memo?
It's because our games are considered pre season games right now, so we have to think like a pre season basically.
People were merely suggesting that having nearly no holiday and no preseason to speak of might have an impact on fitness levels"No excuses"
City who normally have loads of energy looked leggy as feck vs and equally leggy Wolves side. Next game rolls on and they get battered by Leichester while Wolves get battered 4-0 by fecking West Ham. We have been shit alright in the two opening games, but when all the teams who played in Europe looks well below par right now it might just be fitness
Who did Flick manage before?
I thought he was relegated with Victoria Bammental from 3rd division to the amateur division, and he was sacked with 1899 Hoffenheim after failing to reach 2nd division for 4 consecutive years...
These are man managers who have known the pain of relegation, and play with similar ideas.
Both use full backs as passers when pressed by the opposition and forced to go wide.
Both have this tendency to change shape with inside forwards into the half space.
Anyway, we have a lot of work to do but we will come good.
Thats the thing, at the moment noone can afford to have a preseason in the league! I think all teams need to be quite creative about how they bring players upto match fitness. Just playing them straight away isn't maybe the best way to do it. But these are weird times and there isn't one team that isnt struggling in one way or another
you are a very good poster.
Where thou art Ranchero ??
City didn't have a striker on the pitch, they had several players playing out of position, Leicester also played a blinder.
Interesting that no one from City have come out and suggested the result is to do with preparation or tiredness.
Also, Spurs should in theory be more 'leggy' than anyone having played a huge amount of games in a short space of time, or does it not work like that?
Leipzig too, and Inter and Leverkusen were also poor. Only Atletico started well (very well, they looked like the team they were in their heyday a few years ago yesterday), along with Barcelona. Simeone’s sessions are very vigorous though, so they probably got up to speed quicker than everyone else in their position. Not sure about Koeman.
Rodri was saying before the game about how unfit they were, how it was just one long season from last to this. Pep saying nobody cares about the welfare of players etc.
Its striking how Utd fans are reaching to give excuses for Man fecking City and not us. Its extremely telling
Last edited:
OP's post aged a bit like rancid cheese didn't it @Ranchero
We don't look match fit but neither do city or Bayern Munich for that matter. Having the huge seasons we've all just had and an extremely weird pre season means we were always bound to have a bit of rust to shake off.
We don't look match fit but neither do city or Bayern Munich for that matter. Having the huge seasons we've all just had and an extremely weird pre season means we were always bound to have a bit of rust to shake off.
Actually, I don't agree with that. If you see the game was level till the Vardy's second goal around 55 mins, when fitness starts mattering. After that, City just dropped off massively and Leicester started looking much better. City was no where close to their general levels of sharpness in pressing and ball movement.
Pep conceded 5 goals perhaps for the first time in his career, I'll be shocked if he comes out and blames fitness/ scheduling. He is generally a very demanding guy and does not make many excuses.
Ole on the other hand is much more pragmatic (although the comes across as times as very optimistic). His team selections, his conferences and his substitutions all show that he isn't as big an optimist as people believe. It's clear for everyone to see that both teams that started the season late are struggling for Fitness.
City won one game on a canter and lost the second massively. We have struggled through both our games.
On Spurs - they have a big squad now and have been rotating with everyone fit. This will only be their 6th game of the season - which does not reach 'accumulated fatigue'. Also, Jose's teams (as he likes to say himself) are set up differently to expend less energy in games, so they can play longer seasons. Till Klopp and Pep busted the myth of high tempo teams not being able to last the season, Jose's approach was hailed as the one responsible for creating far more consistency and making the league more competitive.
If anything, it is clear that Ole likes United to play at a high tempo - so fitness will matter more on our performances. Biggest issue however for us is squad depth for being able to play like this.
This is false. They struggled in the second half against Wolves and on another day they could have ended up on the wrong side of that result.
It isn't reactionary, there is a ole our brigade that comes out every time we don't have a good performance.
I have seen some clips of Saeed and Rants who used to be on United stand calling for the managers head regardless.
The players and the managers both have to take blame.
Well we'll.. So much "winning is all that matters"
Why are people making excuses up for them, fitness issues, no strikers etc...
Truth be told they've invested badly and their best players have come or are coming to the end of their careers.
Kompany, Toure, Silva, Aguero, Fernandinho.
How do you replace that quality, you could even throw Zabaleta into the mix for his leadership qualities.
Then there is the bad buys and average players, Rodri, Jesus, Mendy, Walker, Garcia etc..
Basically over the last three years City have progressively got weaker and last season you could see the cracks, 9 defeats in the league. Already hammered by Leicester, I fully expect more to come if I'm honest. They rely massively on De Buryne and Aguero but both get injured far too often.
I'm gonna stick my neck out and say this, once we're up and running there isn't much in it between us and City now. We could finish above them this season if we can sort out our defence, I honestly believe that.
Peps brand of football works when you have top players and it looks great, once the standard slips and he starts square pegs in round holing his team you start to see the cracks. Tik taka with players who aren't as good gets caught on the ball or out of position.
Truth be told they've invested badly and their best players have come or are coming to the end of their careers.
Kompany, Toure, Silva, Aguero, Fernandinho.
How do you replace that quality, you could even throw Zabaleta into the mix for his leadership qualities.
Then there is the bad buys and average players, Rodri, Jesus, Mendy, Walker, Garcia etc..
Basically over the last three years City have progressively got weaker and last season you could see the cracks, 9 defeats in the league. Already hammered by Leicester, I fully expect more to come if I'm honest. They rely massively on De Buryne and Aguero but both get injured far too often.
I'm gonna stick my neck out and say this, once we're up and running there isn't much in it between us and City now. We could finish above them this season if we can sort out our defence, I honestly believe that.
Peps brand of football works when you have top players and it looks great, once the standard slips and he starts square pegs in round holing his team you start to see the cracks. Tik taka with players who aren't as good gets caught on the ball or out of position.
Amen.
Makes excuses for City but United have no excuse. Can't even make this stuff up
You're 100% right that they've regressed, the replacements to the old guard are significantly weaker (particularly Aguero, Silva and Kompany - Toure they don't miss because of KDB). Now you can add Sane to that list who imo crucial to their attack.
Even still though I think they're better than us - mostly because their front 3 is still someways ahead of ours. Martial matches / beats Jesus, but Rashford and Greenwood are still some way behind Sterling / Mahrez / B.Silva. However the gap between us and them is the closest it's been since post SAF.
Nice result for Wolves vs West Ham.
Funny how all these teams that are better than us at everything ever also lose games.
Checkmate Sourpuss United
Funny how all these teams that are better than us at everything ever also lose games.
Checkmate Sourpuss United
I'm not making excuses for anyone.Makes excuses for City but United have no excuse. Can't even make this stuff up
City were sharp vs Wolves and sloppy vs Leicester.
United were dogshite vs Palace and worse against Brighton.
It's quite clear to see which club had better fitness.
Let's hope our team shows some "technical" no us on the ground. Or maybe we can all dream of a better United.
I agree there are questions. The issue is that we don’t have the answers. Bayern returned with an 8-0 thrashing of Schalke, lost the next game 1-4 to Hoffenheim. We, the watchers, have never been in a similar positions, neither have the clubs. We all know a WC or EC can affect a players form the subsequent season in different ways, but it’s staright forward compared to this. All clubs, leagues and players are affected differently.
We don’t in fact know if a young man like Pogba will need a break, maximum matching, 30 minutes or 60 minutes, nor if it will take two matches to hit form or twelve. Nor do the coatches and medical team. What is the biggest likelihood at the moment for different players: fatigue or not yet match fit? Do we get through a bad patch by opting for relations (sticking to the old eleven till we get into gear), or do we do it by makeshifting based on whoever is most fit/prepared and phase the first eleven in? It’s a huge bit of guesswork on the part of coaching teams atm, and not the best situation for us onlookers to put mutch confidence in our own hunches about what would be best.
What the feck are you on about?!
I'm not giving anyone any excuses, United, City etc, all in the same boat.
Rodri didn't mention anything about tiredness, fitness or similar after the game, merely highlighted how City had controlled the game and should have won.
Pep also said similar, nothing about tiredness.
Right, so fatigue doesn't affect those that play lots of games in short spaces of time? Only those that play in Manchester?
I'm so confused by this.
Majority of United's players trained or played on international duty, some also played in the pre season game, some are now two games into the season. They should now be conditioned and relatively fresh. Also couple that with the rotation that Ole has thrown in too.
Let's not forget that every player had three months off recently, granted they then played a tougher schedule to get the season finished, but by your rationale this doesn't lead to fatigue.
People are trying to claim that the teams who played deep into the European comps are struggling at the start of this season, which really isn't the case, bar the odd result.
Lest we forget that we actually lost to Palace at home last season!
During the game, commentators mentioned that Rodri said this in a previous interview.
Maybe the odd Carabao cup games help a bit, I don't know the right answer to that question. There's not much you can do sometimes. We can only hope everyone struggles and we are fit before the other big boys.
Haven't seen anything relating to that interview anywhere.
You'd have thought he'd have mentioned it after the game really?
No, he said it before. The commentators mentioned he said this during the game so it must have been in an interview before.
I think you're missing my point.
You'd have thought he'd say it after the game as a reason for the loss, instead he just said Leicester was lucky.
I can see no reference online to that interview at all also?!
Thanks for the correction. I only saw highlights, and the general sentiment on this forum was that they dominated Wolves.
No one is making any excuses for bad results. Fitness has a lot more to contribute in high level football than you are willing to accept. I'm not saying that our performances are excused, or we should not be doing better.
The point is that we are not at peak condition for the way we play, and we will be playing Spurs in a few days - who should be in or close to peak condition for how they play.
If you think that Spurs have had the same accumulation issues that we had towards the end of last season, it would be a joke. (Also, their midweek game with Jose was complaining about got cancelled, so they played one less)