Yeah I share your worries. That's why I imagine Pochettino will be the preferred option.
Clearing out the squad for the new manager - yay or nay?
- Thread starter altodevil
- Start date
Interesting. Another question, when did we offload £100m of players in one window? Maybe once?
Wouldnt blink twice and purge whole squad, maybe few players that might deserve to stay thats about it.
A clear out would be absolutely amazing but just feels it is too good to be true.
If it's ETH then fully yay. He is going to implement a new style of football that we haven't played previously or did so in glimpses under Ragnick. As such squad cohesion wouldn't matter much since it's going to be almost 0 anyway.
This allows us a golden opportunity to clean out the squad. The question is does the current football structure has the balls to do it? In a perfect world here is what would happen.(the ones in Bold are keep)
David De Gea - sell as he doesn’t fit the role of the GK ETH likes to have. Plus good to clear those insane wages he is on.
Dean Henderson? - keep only if De Gea leaves. Otherwise sell
Heaton - keep
Grant- transition to coach
Varane - keep. Best CB when fit
Lindelof -keep as ETH will definitely love his ball playing qualities
Maguire- sell. Prone to concentration lapses and not suited for a high line. It’s also no secret that the Dutch as whole don’t rate him.
Mengi - promote as 4th choice CB
Tuanzebe - promote as 3rd choice CB
Bailly - sell
Jones- sell
Shaw - keep. Good enough for now. In a more possesion based where he is given more license to bomb forward he will thrive. ETH likes to use his fullbacks in a variety of ways. Some are used to strech the play, while other are used to screen the defense while in build up. Shaw can do both and can even play as a CB if required. A very important asset despite current form.
Telles- keep
Wan-Bissaka- sell
Dalot - keep
Williams - keep/loan depending on the Laird situation or if we sign a new RB
Laird- promote
Pogba - release
Mata- release
Lingard- release
Pereiera -sell
Amad- loan
Fred - keep. Underrated by many because he was forced to play in a more defensive role he was not suited. In a more attacking possesion based b2b/8 role he will thrive.
Scott- keep. Not exactly an ETH player, but he is homegrown lad who thrives in big games. Should be used as a squad player. Could be our version of Klassen.
Bruno - keep
Pellistri? - loan to either a championship side or keep for depth. Will get more minutes than at Alaves either way.
Matic- keep. Veteran and PL winner. The only pure DM we have that knows how to build from deep. Just don’t play him more than 90 minutes a week as he doesn’t have the legs for it anymore.
Donny - since it’s ETH, then keep. Otherwise sell.
Garner- promote to a back up DM/8
Hannibal - give him the Mata role and promote him to be Bruno’s back-up cover/impact sub
Ronaldo - keep. While not a pressing monster, ETH loves players that understand the concept of creating space and finding empty “half spaces”. Ronaldo even at 37 is one of the best in the world at this.
Martial - sell
Rashford - sell. Not worth the hassle and the new contract. Too much PR, too little atitude and application on the pitch. If PSG want him, they can have him.
Greenwood -release
Cavani - release
Sancho - keep
Elanga - keep
Chong- sell with a buy back
Shoretire - loan
This should free up plenty of funds/wages for more up and coming players and reinforcements we need for DM, RW, CB, CF. In fairness we’d need to sign 4-5 players max as our squad was supper bloated.
I also think that ETH should retain Phelan for the first season since ETH is a novice when it comes to the way EPL works. Keeping Phelan as a consultant will help him familiarize with the EPL, Cups, Christmas fixtures, etc Also Phelan will let him know about rotating the youths in the cup competitions.
This allows us a golden opportunity to clean out the squad. The question is does the current football structure has the balls to do it? In a perfect world here is what would happen.(the ones in Bold are keep)
David De Gea - sell as he doesn’t fit the role of the GK ETH likes to have. Plus good to clear those insane wages he is on.
Dean Henderson? - keep only if De Gea leaves. Otherwise sell
Heaton - keep
Grant- transition to coach
Varane - keep. Best CB when fit
Lindelof -keep as ETH will definitely love his ball playing qualities
Maguire- sell. Prone to concentration lapses and not suited for a high line. It’s also no secret that the Dutch as whole don’t rate him.
Mengi - promote as 4th choice CB
Tuanzebe - promote as 3rd choice CB
Bailly - sell
Jones- sell
Shaw - keep. Good enough for now. In a more possesion based where he is given more license to bomb forward he will thrive. ETH likes to use his fullbacks in a variety of ways. Some are used to strech the play, while other are used to screen the defense while in build up. Shaw can do both and can even play as a CB if required. A very important asset despite current form.
Telles- keep
Wan-Bissaka- sell
Dalot - keep
Williams - keep/loan depending on the Laird situation or if we sign a new RB
Laird- promote
Pogba - release
Mata- release
Lingard- release
Pereiera -sell
Amad- loan
Fred - keep. Underrated by many because he was forced to play in a more defensive role he was not suited. In a more attacking possesion based b2b/8 role he will thrive.
Scott- keep. Not exactly an ETH player, but he is homegrown lad who thrives in big games. Should be used as a squad player. Could be our version of Klassen.
Bruno - keep
Pellistri? - loan to either a championship side or keep for depth. Will get more minutes than at Alaves either way.
Matic- keep. Veteran and PL winner. The only pure DM we have that knows how to build from deep. Just don’t play him more than 90 minutes a week as he doesn’t have the legs for it anymore.
Donny - since it’s ETH, then keep. Otherwise sell.
Garner- promote to a back up DM/8
Hannibal - give him the Mata role and promote him to be Bruno’s back-up cover/impact sub
Ronaldo - keep. While not a pressing monster, ETH loves players that understand the concept of creating space and finding empty “half spaces”. Ronaldo even at 37 is one of the best in the world at this.
Martial - sell
Rashford - sell. Not worth the hassle and the new contract. Too much PR, too little atitude and application on the pitch. If PSG want him, they can have him.
Greenwood -release
Cavani - release
Sancho - keep
Elanga - keep
Chong- sell with a buy back
Shoretire - loan
This should free up plenty of funds/wages for more up and coming players and reinforcements we need for DM, RW, CB, CF. In fairness we’d need to sign 4-5 players max as our squad was supper bloated.
I also think that ETH should retain Phelan for the first season since ETH is a novice when it comes to the way EPL works. Keeping Phelan as a consultant will help him familiarize with the EPL, Cups, Christmas fixtures, etc Also Phelan will let him know about rotating the youths in the cup competitions.
All the decision makers (Woodward, Ole, Joel Glazer) were on board with signing Ronaldo. SAF was just the man that delivered him. If he could make signings then we would've signed Ronaldo four years ago. He was telling Khabib a club guest that he believes in playing your best players. He was unaware that somebody was filming it.
Please don’t think I am criticising Fergie, he helps Utd in anyway he can and always will. The Glazers are the ones who choose to follow his advice and any bad decision is on them (another example - Fergie recommend Ole as manager). The Glazers haven’t got a clue about football which is why they are so dependent on retired United legends and can’t think for themselves. They don’t know how to modernise the structure of our club. We all know they had no succession plan but it’s ridiculous we are so stuck in nostalgia 9 years later.
Probably never. But this thread was about clearing out the squad for the new boss. I imagine we got close to £100m the summers we sold Lukaku and Di Maria but obviously those two made up the bulk of that.
As depressing as our situation seems I do think if we were bold and ruthless we could let 10-12 players go on free transfers and sales and sign 5-6 and be stronger for it.
It would feel instantly like anew beginning and everyone would be pulling in the same direction again.
Yes. The problem is that we never have a vision. If you have a clear idea of the team you want to build and how you want to play the rebuild done by your manager will likely not be purposeless but will serve the next manager. So let's say Ten Hag moulds the team to becoming possession and high intensity football based. Even if he doesn't win the PL his signings should work for the next manager who has similar beliefs. In the past we've hired Moyes (shit on a stick footy), LVG (possesion oriented but totally past it), Jose (negative as feck and past it) and Ole (make it up as you go). Thats why we keep having to rebuild - there has been feck all vision. Stop looking for quick fixes and short cuts. Invest time and money in a vision and relentlessly persue excellent to fulfill it.
Whatever the new manager wants, be that gutting what's here or believing he can get a tune out of them. As long as he's 100% backed, on his head be it.
Personally, I think there should be penalties for disrespecting the club that send out a message to the squad (excluding last summer's signings) that they are playing for their futures here and it isn't a given they will remain giving unsatisfactory performances, or more specifically, not giving their all for the cause.
It's a cakewalk being here. You look at the raw application of the players at all the clubs above us in the table and disparity is disgraceful.
Personally, I think there should be penalties for disrespecting the club that send out a message to the squad (excluding last summer's signings) that they are playing for their futures here and it isn't a given they will remain giving unsatisfactory performances, or more specifically, not giving their all for the cause.
It's a cakewalk being here. You look at the raw application of the players at all the clubs above us in the table and disparity is disgraceful.
In turn, when have things ever been this bad? Hopefully, during unprecedented times we break from tradition and shift what needs to be shifted and is viable this summer.
I'm a bit sick of this growing narrative, trying to portray Fergie as some sort of malevolent force, influencing the club in a negative way to "maintain his record"
It's absolute hogwash.
Is it difficult being a manager and being compared with his success....yes
Does he still have some influence around the club...in that he still has some of his contemporaries, or proteges around...maybe.
But none of this prevents the club from hiring a good manager and then getting out of their way while they got on with the job.
I'm old enough to remember Sir Matt being at games and exactly the same accusations being levelled at him.
I'll never forget the sheer delight on his face when Fergie won the title. Made it obvious he only had love for the club.
We need the clearout, we need serious investment in a longer term strategy. Either spending big right now or spending less on youthful up and coming players and see who is upto the task.
We need a management structure that goes with an agreed approach and doesn't consider "brand awareness" over talent and more importantly dedication and hard work.
It's absolute hogwash.
Is it difficult being a manager and being compared with his success....yes
Does he still have some influence around the club...in that he still has some of his contemporaries, or proteges around...maybe.
But none of this prevents the club from hiring a good manager and then getting out of their way while they got on with the job.
I'm old enough to remember Sir Matt being at games and exactly the same accusations being levelled at him.
I'll never forget the sheer delight on his face when Fergie won the title. Made it obvious he only had love for the club.
We need the clearout, we need serious investment in a longer term strategy. Either spending big right now or spending less on youthful up and coming players and see who is upto the task.
We need a management structure that goes with an agreed approach and doesn't consider "brand awareness" over talent and more importantly dedication and hard work.
A clear out is definitely needed, and it's literally the only thing brining me some sort of semblance of excitement for next season. We're at rock bottom now, but there's still the barebones of something in this squad.
We've gone to the absolute limit now, and I just feel with Ralf Rangnick, and potentially Ten Haag or Poch coming in, it's a major cultural reboot we haven't seen before. There's no quick fix (Mourinho) or underwhelming appointments (Ole, Moyes and LVG). Sure, it can go wrong, but I think these guys can bring something to the club we haven’t seen in a long while.
Currently I'm moving towards Ten Haag simply for the rebuild that's needed. De Jong, De Light, van de Beek, Ziyech, he needed to rebuild after the team was picked apart after the CL run. I like the football his teams play, and I think they were a clinical CF away from knocking out Benfica and being a challenge to any team in the CL.
I've wanted Pochettino for a long time, but I just question him a little after his PSG team. Granted, I think that squad is probably impossible to manage, but it's still a little underwhelming the job he has done. With Ten Haag, he consistently has the whole greater than the individual parts, and that's something I want to see again at Manchester United. I hate this Galacticos era we are in of signing the name.
As for a clear out, take your pick of players we could sell and realistically replace with one or two quality signings. Henderson, DVB, Bailly, Martial, AWB. Not to mention Pogba, Lingard, Mata leaving on a free. That's a lot of money on wages and transfer fees. With Rangnick and Ten Haag, I think we could actually see that money put to work for once.
We're at the lowest point now, but all the same I'm optimistic because we have no choice but to change what we are doing. At least we will see something different.
We've gone to the absolute limit now, and I just feel with Ralf Rangnick, and potentially Ten Haag or Poch coming in, it's a major cultural reboot we haven't seen before. There's no quick fix (Mourinho) or underwhelming appointments (Ole, Moyes and LVG). Sure, it can go wrong, but I think these guys can bring something to the club we haven’t seen in a long while.
Currently I'm moving towards Ten Haag simply for the rebuild that's needed. De Jong, De Light, van de Beek, Ziyech, he needed to rebuild after the team was picked apart after the CL run. I like the football his teams play, and I think they were a clinical CF away from knocking out Benfica and being a challenge to any team in the CL.
I've wanted Pochettino for a long time, but I just question him a little after his PSG team. Granted, I think that squad is probably impossible to manage, but it's still a little underwhelming the job he has done. With Ten Haag, he consistently has the whole greater than the individual parts, and that's something I want to see again at Manchester United. I hate this Galacticos era we are in of signing the name.
As for a clear out, take your pick of players we could sell and realistically replace with one or two quality signings. Henderson, DVB, Bailly, Martial, AWB. Not to mention Pogba, Lingard, Mata leaving on a free. That's a lot of money on wages and transfer fees. With Rangnick and Ten Haag, I think we could actually see that money put to work for once.
We're at the lowest point now, but all the same I'm optimistic because we have no choice but to change what we are doing. At least we will see something different.
Ask georgipep, he will give all the right answers got inside knowledge I think. ?
Yeah, has to be a root and branch clear out. No point doing it piecemeal at this point as the problem isn't just quality but equally attitude.
I hope RR has been brought in for 3 years to oversee a complete overhaul of the squad. It could be a masterstroke by Murtagh who has realised we will be continuing to change the manager unless we change the players. Give RR 6 months managing them to realise who should go and who should stay, then support the new manager and recruitment team to bring in the right replacements. You can't turn over a full squad in 1 window as you can't get players out thus 3 years consultancy.
They can't announce RR actual role as it would unsettle the players while chasing 4th place thus why so secret on his role. At least I hope this is the plan and they are not just winging it!
They can't announce RR actual role as it would unsettle the players while chasing 4th place thus why so secret on his role. At least I hope this is the plan and they are not just winging it!
Barney Ronay is a funny old bugger - but he hits the nail on the head here
I'd rather we'd start from scratch than seeing the usual suspects staying. I'm all for a massive clear out. The club has been far to lenient on our players lack of professionalism these past few years.
It’s going to be a blood bath no matter what we do. More than half our first team is out of contract soon, or should be sold/released. The youth know the system and how to play together, so bring a class of them through and have them around the first team.
We need 6 new players to start, we will get 2 if we are lucky. We limp along mid table with the players we have.
We need 6 new players to start, we will get 2 if we are lucky. We limp along mid table with the players we have.
IF we found a good midfielder!
Chelski, United. One of these is not like the other.Who says we cant sign more than 4 players, where's the rule that prohibits transfers ? This is the glazer propaganda speaking.
We'll be selling half a dozen players too so money isn't going all one way.
When roman took over chelsea he signed a dozen players in the first window.
Edit: It was 16 players
That about sums up the shambles of a club that we are, and aside from winning a few trophies, the 4 years prior weren't much different, which exemplifies how we continue to repeat mistakes.
He doesn't have to do a conscious clearance as it is. I count about 9 players who are unsettled and/or whose contracts are expiring in the summer. Such as Henderson, Bailly, Jones, Matic, Pogba, Mata, Lingard, Cavani, Martial. So it is going to be a new look squad in any case.
Oh God yes we need a clear out.
So I did a squad analysis of who we should retain and who we should sell or loan out. The source list is the players listed as first team members in the official website. I think we need at minimum 3 transfer windows and successful ones at that, to get to a point where we feel we have the right quality and squad options to challenge for major trophies. Significant investments would be needed.
Goalkeepers:
De Gea for all his weaknesses of which we are all aware of, is a great shot stopper. Lee Grant is possibly going to become a coach and Heaton can provide cover on the bench. The few times Henderson has played, he has been far from convincing. It is perhaps best to Sell him and insert a buy back clause so that we can get him back in case he develops further.
Center Backs:
I think most fans would agree with the above assessment, with perhaps only a few making a case for Maguire. It is time to move on from him. His performances this season have been mediocre, and he struggles in a high backline setup. I cannot see a way that he can be a starter for us (unless a genius coach can find a way) and putting an 80m asset on the bench doesn't make sense. Its better to cut our losses, thank him for his services, and move on.
Full Backs:
We need a starter at the RB position, the current options just don't cut it. Shaw is marked as a starter, but between himself, Telles and Brandon WIlliams, there's not as big a gap at LB as it is on the other side and the new manager at least has something to work with.
Central Midfielders:
I hope that we don't give Pogba another contract. It hasn't worked out with him and I can't see it working out going forward either. Fred and McT are good rotation options. We need 2 starters here. Not necessarily superstars, but players that fit a system. I still think Garner needs another season under his belt at a PL club.
Attacking Midfielders:
Bruno, Donny and Mjebri are the only ones that have enough quality. Counting on Mjebri to get a lot of minutes in cup games.
We need at minimum a new striker/forward. I don't know who that can be. We can perhaps get away with Cristiano as a starter depending upon the system we play and the service he receives. But even in that situation, we would still need a long term option.
In summary, out of the 38 players listed, I believe we have only 6 players who have enough quality to be starters. 12 players who could be useful for Rotation. 15 players who should either be sold (8) or released (7). 4 players to be loaned out and 1 player who is a write off.
This is a huge task and I really hope we use all the experience of the likes of Rangnick to help us through this process because there's no easy fix here.
So I did a squad analysis of who we should retain and who we should sell or loan out. The source list is the players listed as first team members in the official website. I think we need at minimum 3 transfer windows and successful ones at that, to get to a point where we feel we have the right quality and squad options to challenge for major trophies. Significant investments would be needed.
Goalkeepers:
| Player Name | Position | Assessment | Squad Status | |
| GK | Keep | Starter | |
| Lee Grant | GK | Release | Release | |
| Tom Heaton | GK | Keep | Rotation | |
| Dean Henderson | GK | Sell | Sell |
De Gea for all his weaknesses of which we are all aware of, is a great shot stopper. Lee Grant is possibly going to become a coach and Heaton can provide cover on the bench. The few times Henderson has played, he has been far from convincing. It is perhaps best to Sell him and insert a buy back clause so that we can get him back in case he develops further.
Center Backs:
| Player Name | Position | Assessment | Squad Status |
| Victor Lindelof | CB | Keep | Rotation |
| Eric Bailly | CB | Sell | Sell |
| Phil Jones | CB | Release | Release |
| Harry Maguire | CB | Sell | Sell |
| Raphael Varane | CB | Keep | Starter |
| Axel Tuanzebe | CB | Sell | Sell |
| Teden Mengi | CB | Keep | Rotation |
I think most fans would agree with the above assessment, with perhaps only a few making a case for Maguire. It is time to move on from him. His performances this season have been mediocre, and he struggles in a high backline setup. I cannot see a way that he can be a starter for us (unless a genius coach can find a way) and putting an 80m asset on the bench doesn't make sense. Its better to cut our losses, thank him for his services, and move on.
Full Backs:
| Player Name | Position | Assessment | Squad Status |
| Diogo Dalot | RB | Keep | Rotation |
| Luke Shaw | LB | Keep | Starter |
| Alex Telles | LB | Keep | Rotation |
| Aaron Wan Bissaka | RB | Sell | Sell |
| Brandon Williams | LB | Keep | Rotation |
We need a starter at the RB position, the current options just don't cut it. Shaw is marked as a starter, but between himself, Telles and Brandon WIlliams, there's not as big a gap at LB as it is on the other side and the new manager at least has something to work with.
Central Midfielders:
| Player Name | Position | Assessment | Squad Status |
| Paul Pogba | CM | Release | Release |
| Fred | CM | Keep | Rotation |
| Nemanja Matic | CM | Release | Release |
| James Garner | CM | Loan | Loan |
| Scott Mctominay | CM | Keep | Rotation |
I hope that we don't give Pogba another contract. It hasn't worked out with him and I can't see it working out going forward either. Fred and McT are good rotation options. We need 2 starters here. Not necessarily superstars, but players that fit a system. I still think Garner needs another season under his belt at a PL club.
Attacking Midfielders:
| Player Name | Position | Assessment | Squad Status |
| Juan Mata | AM | Release | Release |
| Jesse Lingard | AM | Release | Release |
| Andreas Pereira | AM | Sell | Sell |
| Bruno Fernandes | AM | Keep | Starter |
| Donny Van De Beek | AM | Keep | Rotation |
| Hannibal Mjebri | AM | Keep | Rotation |
Bruno, Donny and Mjebri are the only ones that have enough quality. Counting on Mjebri to get a lot of minutes in cup games.
| Player Name | Position | Assessment | Squad Status |
| Amad Diallo | FW | Loan | Loan |
| Facundo Pellestri | FW | Loan | Loan |
| Cristiano Ronaldo | FW | Keep | Rotation |
| Anthony Martial | FW | Sell | Sell |
| Marcus Rashford | FW | Keep | Starter |
| Edinson Cavani | FW | Release | Release |
| Jadon Sancho | FW | Keep | Starter |
| Anthony Elanga | FW | Keep | Rotation |
| Tahith Chong | FW | Sell | Sell |
| Shola Shoretire | FW | Loan | Loan |
We need at minimum a new striker/forward. I don't know who that can be. We can perhaps get away with Cristiano as a starter depending upon the system we play and the service he receives. But even in that situation, we would still need a long term option.
In summary, out of the 38 players listed, I believe we have only 6 players who have enough quality to be starters. 12 players who could be useful for Rotation. 15 players who should either be sold (8) or released (7). 4 players to be loaned out and 1 player who is a write off.
This is a huge task and I really hope we use all the experience of the likes of Rangnick to help us through this process because there's no easy fix here.
Good post. Would encourage the new manager to have a major purge of the current squad. Its completely rotten and useless.