Clichy and Sagna as playmakers

Brwned

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What's Guardiola thinking here?

Clichy had more touches and passes than anyone, Sagna played most of the game as a centre mid...it made sense when Lahm and Alaba did it because they use the ball extremely well, but these are two of the most conventional, uninspiring, defensive fullbacks in the league.

Why play them in roles they're completely incapable of excelling in?
 
He has no better Fullbacks. He likes it, so he will upgrade them at some point and play the same stuff
 
I'm sure Alaba will end up at City within a year or two.
 
Brwned said:
What's Guardiola thinking here?

Clichy had more touches and passes than anyone, Sagna played most of the game as a centre mid...it made sense when Lahm and Alaba did it because they use the ball extremely well, but these are two of the most conventional, uninspiring, defensive fullbacks in the league.

Why play them in roles they're completely incapable of excelling in?
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It's not like people thought Lahm and Alaba could do that either. I remember back at the time, everyone thought Pep was bonkers. It seems to me sometimes like people just remember how players have become as though they were always like that. Obviously managers will get it wrong some times and the Clichy, Sagna experiment might end up a disaster but it won't be because they did not play like that before.
 
Honestly didn't think he would make a poorer decision than the one to change formation at Barcelona to suit Fabregas, but today changed that. Crazy, Pep doesn't have made some idiotic decisions.
 
It may be his ideal way of playing but unless they improve considerably it won't work for them. They'll get killed by any team that puts them under pressure.
 
Gets away with it as well. Premier league will expose him I have no doubt
 
Theonas said:
It's not like people thought Lahm and Alaba could do that either. I remember back at the time, everyone thought Pep was bonkers. It seems to me sometimes like people just remember how players have become as though they were always like that. Obviously managers will get it wrong some times and the Clichy, Sagna experiment might end up a disaster but it won't be because they did not play like that before.
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Agree with the overall point but I don't think Sagna and Clichy have the talent/mental ability to adapt to play this role, unlike Alaba and Lahm.
 
Im sure he will replace them in time. Both are prone to losing their head in defensive situations.

Both of them also have a really poor final ball. They run the wings well but they just fire it into the box without ever really looking.
 
Fergus' son said:
I'm sure Alaba will end up at City within a year or two.
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I'd imagine Madrid and us will contest any such move fiercely as well as numerous other clubs. If Alaba does move I highly doubt it will be to City and Pep. Wasn't Alaba irritated that Pep would not play him higher up the pitch?
 
Very weird. He's tinkering too much. City has players good enough to beat Sunderland at home without trying to do weird formations. Just play something standard and they still would have won.
 
Not even close to being impressed with them today, if they play like this for the rest of the season they won't even make top 4. They only won because of two silly mistakes from Sunderland.
 
Brwned said:
What's Guardiola thinking here?

Clichy had more touches and passes than anyone, Sagna played most of the game as a centre mid...it made sense when Lahm and Alaba did it because they use the ball extremely well, but these are two of the most conventional, uninspiring, defensive fullbacks in the league.

Why play them in roles they're completely incapable of excelling in?
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Why play them in those roles when you've got Kolarov (attacking fullback) and Zabaleta (experience in midfield) too? :lol:
 
Theonas said:
It's not like people thought Lahm and Alaba could do that either. I remember back at the time, everyone thought Pep was bonkers. It seems to me sometimes like people just remember how players have become as though they were always like that. Obviously managers will get it wrong some times and the Clichy, Sagna experiment might end up a disaster but it won't be because they did not play like that before.
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Alaba was already playing as a centre mid for the Austrian national team and Lahm as a LB tucked into centre mid relatively frequently and was obviously great in possession. Chalk and cheese. As @ADJUDICATOR says, Kolarov and Zabaleta are much more suited to the roles. It would still be unconventional but it wouldn't be stupid. This is stupid.
 
Theonas said:
It's not like people thought Lahm and Alaba could do that either. I remember back at the time, everyone thought Pep was bonkers. It seems to me sometimes like people just remember how players have become as though they were always like that. Obviously managers will get it wrong some times and the Clichy, Sagna experiment might end up a disaster but it won't be because they did not play like that before.
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Hadnt Lahm already been playing at a DM for Bayern before Pep got there anyway?
 
Bob Loblaw said:
Agree with the overall point but I don't think Sagna and Clichy have the talent/mental ability to adapt to play this role, unlike Alaba and Lahm.
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I really don't know them enough so I can't really comment on their ability/intelligence. It's an argument that comes up all the time. Managers mess with positions all the time. Lahm and Alaba at midfield, Di Maria at Real in midfield, Fergie about a gazillion times. Yet the second it doesn't work, people go "what is he trying to do? play players in their positions and stop this nonsense". My point which I think what you agree with is that obviously there is nothing inherently wrong with switching positions and experimenting. It just sometimes works and sometimes doesn't.
 
the hea said:
Not even close to being impressed with them today, if they play like this for the rest of the season they won't even make top 4. They only won because of two silly mistakes from Sunderland.
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Way too early to look for impressive stuff. You just have to pick up wins before you get the team integrated as you would like them.
 
He's in danger of creating a poorman"s Bayern. I don't care how much you coach, Clichy/Sagna will never be Alaba/Lahm.
 
OneUnited24 said:
Hadnt Lahm already been playing at a DM for Bayern before Pep got there anyway?
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To my recollection, I remember that Supercup game against Chelsea when Pep first arrived and people talking as though he was some sort of mad scientist. I clarified my point in my response to Bob Loblaw. It is more about the ultra conservative attitudes towards experimentation than anything else.
 
Theonas said:
I really don't know them enough so I can't really comment on their ability/intelligence. It's an argument that comes up all the time. Managers mess with positions all the time. Lahm and Alaba at midfield, Di Maria at Real in midfield, Fergie about a gazillion times. Yet the second it doesn't work, people go "what is he trying to do? play players in their positions and stop this nonsense". My point which I think what you agree with is that obviously there is nothing inherently wrong with switching positions and experimenting. It just sometimes works and sometimes doesn't.
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Yep, that's what I was agreeing with. I think it's a fair point but in this case I'm baffled by Guardiola's thinking.
 
It will sure be interesting to see whether Pep's boat can hold of water during the upcoming proper tests of the Premier League. His team isn't galaxies away quality wise from the rest of the league so his decisions/experiments will actually be tested now. I'm not saying he is going to fail, but usually these unorthodox playing styles have a tendency to bite the manager in the buttocks (at least in the EPL).
 
Didn't understand it because it just meant bruyne was playing as a right back hoofing in balls.
 
That along with Kolarov at center back, and 5 players like Aguero, De bruyne, Silva, Sterling and Nolito who do nothing defensively... This is not going to end well for him if he thinks he can do that consistently in the premier league. Barely did it against Sunderland, where they had almost 80% possession but didn't really create clear cut chances. It worked at Bayern because Alaba and Lahm are world class players, and they have other world class players in midfield and defence to back that up like boateng, Xabi Alonso, Vidal, neuer in goal, etc., plus with the league being generally weaker then the premier league (or a much bigger gap in quality between the top teams and the rest).
 
Theonas said:
I really don't know them enough so I can't really comment on their ability/intelligence. It's an argument that comes up all the time. Managers mess with positions all the time. Lahm and Alaba at midfield, Di Maria at Real in midfield, Fergie about a gazillion times. Yet the second it doesn't work, people go "what is he trying to do? play players in their positions and stop this nonsense". My point which I think what you agree with is that obviously there is nothing inherently wrong with switching positions and experimenting. It just sometimes works and sometimes doesn't.
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But i think a case can be made for Lahm/Alaba moving centrally, ditto for Di Maria.

In the case of Citys fallbacks i just think they're too "traditional" to make it as central midfielders. They're all about their crossing ability which they will not use in central areas. The only similarity i can think of is Valencia and Darmian - Darmian could probably do a okish job centrally but Valencia would look out of place
 
Fergus' son said:
Why?
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Because why would David Alaba leave Bayern? Pep didn't make him into a world class player or anything. He was class before Pep got there. Bayern is one of the top 3 teams in the world, and Alaba came through their youth system. Bayern wouldn't sell him under any circumstance, and if he would go anywhere after Bayern, it would be Real Madrid or Barcelona. Not Man City.
 
JackRed said:
I'd imagine Madrid and us will contest any such move fiercely as well as numerous other clubs. If Alaba does move I highly doubt it will be to City and Pep. Wasn't Alaba irritated that Pep would not play him higher up the pitch?
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Hope so! Meltdown from the Germans would be hilarious if it did happen.
 
bosnian_red said:
Because why would David Alaba leave Bayern? Pep didn't make him into a world class player or anything. He was class before Pep got there. Bayern is one of the top 3 teams in the world, and Alaba came through their youth system. Bayern wouldn't sell him under any circumstance, and if he would go anywhere after Bayern, it would be Real Madrid or Barcelona. Not Man City.
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Because the Bundesliga is a one horse race - I'd leave. Plus he can earn more in England.
 
Rado_N said:
Because he has to do stuff nobody else would thing of.
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It's just his idea of football. He's stubborn in that regard. I predicted him to have difficulties in bringing his game through with the current crop of players he has at his disposal. Should be still good enough for a top 3 finish once he has everyone on board, though.
 
Theonas said:
It's not like people thought Lahm and Alaba could do that either. I remember back at the time, everyone thought Pep was bonkers. It seems to me sometimes like people just remember how players have become as though they were always like that. Obviously managers will get it wrong some times and the Clichy, Sagna experiment might end up a disaster but it won't be because they did not play like that before.
Click to expand...

Alaba was used to play as a CM for Austria at least. If this is something that Guardiola intends to repeat again in future matches then he really is a weirdo.
 
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