There were also lots of rumors about Putin's health not so long ago, he's still terrorizing the world.
I've no doubt Xi will live a long and terrible life.
Cold War against China?
- Thread starter VorZakone
- Start date
I've no doubt Xi will live a long and terrible life.
Xi lost a huge deal of weight in a very short span of time. You should have seen pictures of him at Li Keqiang's funeral only a few weeks ago. Whatever the cause is, it ain't anything normally healthy.
Korea? Vietnam? Iraq? Afghanistan? Nicaragua? Cuba? Palestine? Yemen? Indonesia? Libya?
You can't be serious.
FYI, this is not a thread about China, this is a thread about a cold war with China so it's totally reasonable to speak about the other side of said cold war.
I think it can be both. It is 100% propaganda for domestic consumption meant it or not. And if they really mean it... As other points out, Xi's might want to consider it his legacy and I believe it so. The new silk route, lifting hundreds of million of poverty is nice and dandy but doesn't put a president in history books.
Also, we are seeing the conflicts that are popping out. Ukraine, Israel, raise of the far right, immigration tensions... There is something brewing in the environment and definitely is not leaving the West in a good light in morality. Also China didn't propped out its military, the China sea artificial islands for any reason and the time to get Taiwan unified with China is running out as the new generations they only feel Taiwanese.
My opinion is that something will definitely happen before 10 years if Xi doesn't die or has a serious health issue to causes him to resign. And many time I heard 2027-28, but as I said in another post, I don't know the rational on the date and why you can even predict that. But again I read it 10 times in different articles
Why does everyone forget Laos? Absolutely devastated during the Indo-China (Vietnam) war. It's the most bombed country in the world for its size. Still to this day it has an estimated 80 MILLION unexploded mines, cluster bombs and other ordinance. Truly sickening for a country that wasn't ever supposed to be involved in the war.
I just mentioned it a few post up exactly with what you said
It's hard to remember (or even know about) all the places and people that the US has decimated. I didn't realise Laos was so badly hit until I read this thread today.
Ahhh, so you did, it was on the previous page. My apologies for missing it.
It's hardly surprising that many Americans think their country won WWII seeing as the majority of US made films ignore all the other countries contributions. Some include the UK but you rarely see any other countries involvement. The worst example that comes to mind is U-571 where it makes out the Americans were the first to capture an enigma machine, one of the biggest contributing factors to defeating the Nazis. Well that and some bloody good luck ironically due to bad weather for the Normandy invasions. It's only at the end of the film they put a little message on the screen acknowledging HMS Bulldog and the crew who really were the first to capture a working enigma machine.
The Vietnam movies are no different, although a couple of decent ones do try to show the loss and true horrors. However I'm not sure I can remember any that go in to the Cambodia and Laos stories, other than them being used for drug smuggling bases for US pilots.
I see a lot of people both here and all over social media, and many politicians constantly saying China will be responsible for starting the next world war. I honestly can't see that at all. I think a lot of it is just fear from America and other countries that China is advancing in many areas it didn't before. It's still copying from everyone else, but also now advancing in many areas too.
I personally think if there is another world war, the US (and by proxy the UK) will be heavily involved and it's more than likely going to start with Iran or possibly North Korea or even Russia. I honestly don't see China having any need or want to go to war with the west, unless they decide to bomb the US to get the trillions of dollars they are owed back. (Joke) Although I can see why others think that and why the US and other countries are worried seeing how much China is spending on updating and advancing its military size and capabilities.
Of course the Taiwan issue is always a possibility but if China do decide to try to take it back, from what I have read one of the main reasons it will upset the US and force their involvement is purely due to the US wanting to keep China from then being the world's biggest supplier of semiconductor microchips. Obviously there are other reasons too.
It's obviously spooked the US enough though and they are making plans to produce their own chips so they are not as reliant on Taiwan as Biden pushed a bill that was passed by Congress that includes a staggering $280 BILLION fund along with a new manafactuing plant in Phoenix, Arizona. Construction is due to start early 2025.
So to me, China seems to be laser focused on leading the world in trade and manafactuing in every area they can, especially the tech and energy sectors. It has a long way to go to catch up with the USA in terms of inventing and development but from what I have read recently, it's not as far behind as it previously was and is spending the money trying to catch up. Although I admit I'm not itk and just going by what I have read in tech magazines and news reports, but I do find it quite fascinating to be honest.
It's truly horrifying to be honest, but there are loads of good sources to read up on it if you are interested. It's also where the CIA carried out the largest paramilitary operations anywhere.
https://www.cia.gov/resources/csi/s...99-2000/cia-air-operations-in-laos-1955-1974/
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ope...Barrel Roll was a,bombs being dropped on Laos.
Probably the best book I have read about it was this one...
https://www.amazon.com/Battle-Skyline-Ridge-Secret-Laos/dp/1612007058
I don't necessarily think the bolded is the case. If the fear of a highly advanced China was always the reason, then Western governments would have had different policies over the last 40 years trying to prevent China from getting to their current level in the first place. Instead, we did business with China.
I think the main reason for today's tensions is Xi Jinping and China's increasingly aggressive foreign policy and rhetoric. Take for example what happened in Hong Kong. I saw a documentary in which several Taiwanese voters were explicitly referencing Hong Kong for why they fear China's intentions with Taiwan.
Yeah, you're probably right. I read that 63% of the Taiwanese population consider themselves to be exclusively Taiwanese. 31% Taiwanese - Chinese which is down from 40% a decade ago and only 3% consider themselves to be Chinese.
The Hong Kong situation has definitely worried a lot of the Taiwanese people as China promised a one state/two policy system yet as we have seen they have gone in hard to restrict a lot of the freedoms Hong Kong citizens previously had. It also seems that's not going to stop as the Chinese keep chipping away and it appears their end goal is one state - one policy. That would absolutely be the same if China had control over Taiwan.
What about Korea? Defending them against a communist invasion is a bad thing? Simply look at South Korea v North Korea now and I think we can safely say the US did the right thing, whereas Mao's China comdemned generations of North Koreans to the Kim family.
Again, the US has done plenty of terrible things, but none that's even remotely close to Stalin or Mao
Shock horror the movie industry paints their own country in a good light. In fact, the US is far more open to Hollywood making out the US government to be the big bad than the other side.
If you've ever seen any Chinese made movies about WWII, they're far beyond distorting historical facts to make their country look good, they're simply making stuff up.
Here's the promotion material of a film about the Cairo Declaration, Mao is in the middle of the poster when he WAS NOT even there in real life.
Every Chinese made WWII movie basically has the CCP defeating the Imperial Japanese all on their own.
The PRC has never ever ruled Taiwan in their entire existence, one simply cannot take something one has never owned back.
Taiwan is about far more than microchips, it's also a key part of the first island chain.
The Taiwan strait is such a key shipping route that Japan and Korea will basically be under the thump of China if China takes control of Taiwan. Abe basically said that Japan are more than willing to go to war to defend Taiwan before he was assassinated and Korea have suddenly become very close to Japan despite their historical issues mostly due to Xi's expansionist policies.
Also, the Chinese economy has capitulated, have a quick look at how the major Chinese indices have performed in recent years.
They didn't defend them from a communist invasion. US they were defending their interests of not wanting a communist world because it was a ideological battle. So it happened in Vietnam and Afghanistan in the 70s/80s. US was not going to safe anyone but themselves in a geopolitics war. Same as with what @langster says. There is fear that China overtakes the hegemony of US and the west and they need to find the negative parts of China, that there are A LOT. so in the west. I don't necessary agree with @langester that china will start a war or not. But who knows who will start escalating the tensions on purpose to start a conflict or starting it with poor excuses to blatant lies. US is a master on this. It happened with the tensions before Japan's attack in Pearl Harbour, organizing coups around the world, the lies from Iraq war and many others. Taiwan is definitely a factor that could bring china to war first. Then China is accused to have an aggressive stand, but is the US that has an aggressive international stand with China, with bases in south korea, Japan, philippines and Singapore. And they are opening more and more. And they have a fleet patrolling constantly. There is an acceptance that US can do that but not China. Why? I mean, I don't want China either to have military bases, but I don't understand the double standards
In the end is not good vs bad. Is ones interests against others interests. And both are evil nations. I will root for US as is my bouncer though, but I don't fool myself that is the good guy. Paraphrasing FDR, Is a son a bitch but our son of a bitch
I think is because China was very tempting. It was +1 billion people cheap labour, and a +1 billion market who sell the products. And China was very cooperative till recent years. Also seeing how they were leaping in many areas, US grew weary so I guess it retro feed with the uncooperativeness.
And yes, What Taiwanese fears comparing themselves with HK makes all the sense in the world
You mean the oil embargo against Japan?
Yes, and *insert tinfoil hat* that the US was aware of the attack to pearl harbour way before it happened
I never said it was good vs evil, but the US remain the much better option than Xi's China.
Those country have US bases because they all agreed (or even wanted) to have US bases, it's a bit like the so called NATO expansion. China are free to find countries for them to build bases (which they have done). Also China are free to patrol the sea as they like as long as they abide by international law and NOT claim the whole South China Sea for themselves.
See what would be the rethoric if china would have a base in tijuana and vancouver...
Last time with Cuba there was an outrage
And sure, those bases are just randomly selected and not because they see china as a menace...in its own area. And again. US is not there for freedom delivery to those countries
SE Asia, Japan etc are not China's area, those countries agreed to have US bases to counter the threat of China.
If Canada & Mexico felt the need to have Chinese bases to counter the US threat, we can discuss then.
You have Cuba and what outrage caused back in the day. Even the financed failed invasion of cuba. So yeah. Double standards all the way
To be fair, it's not just Cuba is it? The US and their determination to rid the world of communism and stop Russian or Chinese plans by funding illegal military campaigns on foreign soil or by proxy funding their chosen side like the Contras in Nicaragua. They funded or started coups in countries such as Venezuela, Chile, Guatemala, Costa Rica and El Salvador. Truthfully they were involved in some way in nearly every single country throught Latin America, especially during the Cold War and after.
Many of these countries are still yet to recover today, or are still in utter turmoil. Yes, of course Russia and China are to blame, but to suggest the US wasn't as bad is extremely naive and disingenuous. The same can be said for many other places around the world especially the Middle East, Africa and Indonesia.
And Russia and China hasn't funded or started coups around the world?
Anyway, this all started when I said "Russia (USSR) under Stalin & China under Mao were both infinitely worse than anything the US has ever done in its entire history."
No one has been able to give any example of the US causing millions (or even 10s of millions) of people to die.
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The numerous examples don't add up to a fraction of the numbers Mao or Stalin racked up.
"No one has been able to give any example of the US causing millions (or even 10s of millions) of people to die."
Besides the various examples of hundreds of thousands and millions that people piled up on the examples provided, I told you before, death is not the only measure of the disastrous US policy. They didn't allow to advance many countries in Latin america and middle east. Causing poverty and a delay on the development of human rights that without the US intervention would have a better chance to improve organically
Besides, Stalin and Mao were +50/60 years. The US Still at it over and over non stopping
So you agree that: Russia (USSR) under Stalin & China under Mao were both infinitely worse than anything the US has ever done in its entire history.
Changing the subject now? It was your 80 year time line, which definitely includes both Mao & Stalin's atrocities, but excludes most of the Third Reich.
Also, the US are not the only ones who interfered in other countries, what about the former Soviet block countries? How are they doing compared to other European countries? Is it a surprise most of them are dying to join NATO?
What about China supporting the Kim dynasty in North Korea? Do you not think North Koreans would prefer to live under South Korean system? Which the US helped defend at significant cost.
At least a couple of billion people will say the US is worse. The US war on terror alone has caused millions of Arab deaths over the last 23 years and I'm pretty sure we'll all be dead before the region recovers from the extent of instability it caused.
Anyway, playing who's worse is a bit pointless because it will depend on whom you're asking and where they're from.
Anyway, playing who's worse is a bit pointless because it will depend on whom you're asking and where they're from.
It also shows a bit of desperation when you have to resort to some of history's greatest villains who have been dead for decades. to counter genocides your side is supporting TODAY.
A lot will say that the west is the worse, but a lot of them want to come and live here. The war on terror is a major blot on western foreign policy, but the vast majority of casualties in the middle east were not inflicted by US personnel, but by religious lunatic and despotic dictators like Assad. Its sad that something so inherently positive like the Arab spring turned into hell.
Small addition regarding Syria: Russia is also doing bombing campaigns.
It's interesting, those in the west who think their countries can do nothing right are happy to complain but unwilling to move to the better managed places like Russia or China.
On the other hand, the better non-west country nationals are all desperate to move the the terrible western countries in western Europe and north America.
I, for one, would love to move somewhere not ruled by an emperor, and would have done if not for family reasons.
People are talking about foreign policy, so what does it matter where they live or want to live?
In fact, because most of us live in free democracies, we have the extra duty of making sure our governments aren't blowing brown children up somewhere else.
Expectations being higher for western democracies than dictatorships or theocracies is not really surprising, is it?
In fact, because most of us live in free democracies, we have the extra duty of making sure our governments aren't blowing brown children up somewhere else.
Expectations being higher for western democracies than dictatorships or theocracies is not really surprising, is it?
I'm just saying how all of you lucky to live in western democracies blame your governments for everything and somehow thinks the rest of the world should be left to their own accord and just let those autocrats do whatever they like, and still blame your governments for the world going to shit.
No one has said the US has been a benevolent superpower, but the fact many people here are claiming they're worse than China or Russia just seems preposterous to me, and presumably the vast number of people in those countries who'd love to live in the US (or other western countries).
Again, US didnt defend anyone but their interests. Like when they abandoned the kurds after they did the heavy lifting against ISIS
And i maintain that the US is the most evil nation of the last 80 years. Even counting stalin and mao. My comment is that the US not only that but still at it. Non stop.
Dont you think that afghanistan iraq, palestine, syria, iran, etc would rather prefer not be in the current circumstances? Dont you think that mexico drug cartel victims would rather prefer that the CIA didnt propped out the cartels? Dont you think that nicaragua would rather prefer that they left them alone? Cuba were 180 countries voted to end de embargo every year for several decades but 2 countries (guess who is the second) vote against? Or the families where they thrown people from planes of the coups in chile and argentina? What about the victimes in vietnam laos and cambodja Proping pol pot? And etc etc
millions of deaths and lifes in misery for generations that would be different if left alone
And again the US keeps going and going and going
I guess it's a matter of power, the US are much more powerful than russia or china, so it's only logic they have more projection to feck up multiple places, whereas russia and china are kinda forced to feck people over in their own neighbourhood or in the country itself.
Again, I didn't once said the US did what they did/do out of the goodness of their heart, just the byproduct of their interference is a net positive compared to China or Russia.
Don't you think that North Koreans would rather not be in their current situation or Vietnam until they abandoned communism?
What about the numerous wars that USSR got involved in? Crushing the Hungarian revolution, invading then Czechoslovakia, etc. USSR did just as much damage if not more in Afghanistan.
The 50 million+ South Koreans are certainly very grateful that the US didn't just leave them alone to fend for themselves, actually there wouldn't be 50m+ of them had they been ruled by Kim.
Ukrainians are relying on the US right now, by your logic they should be left alone to be annexed by Putin?