Cold War against China?

4bars

Full Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2016
Messages
4,906
Supports
Barcelona
Cal? said:
The chips ban has put massive spanner in the high tech sector in China.

Also, the US seems to be close to deliverying a few ground-breaking weapons like the B-21 that are far ahead of time.
Click to expand...
But thats the thing, china is closing the gap on the chips. I am not saying it, articles saying it.

China was mass producing 14nm in 2022, 7nm in september 2023 and seems is currently starting mass producing the 5nm at a substancially higher cost but nevertheless,

https://www.ft.com/content/b5e0dba3-689f-4d0e-88f6-673ff4452977

just 1 level below that the mass produced 3nm from TSMC and Samsung that started mass producing 1 year and a half in Samsung and 1 year in TSMC. the 14nm was mass produced by

Mass production

14nm TSMC 2014 SMIC 2022
10nm TSCM 2017 SMIC skipped
7nm TSCM 2018 SMIC September 2023
5nm TSCM 2020 SMIC February 2024 (substantially more expensive)
3nm TSCM 2022 SMIC on the works year ???
2nm TSCM delayed to 2026

I understand that the closer they get the more difficult it gets but I call that closing the gap. At this pace, they will surpass US/Korea/Taiwan chips technology before the decade ends

On the weapons I definitely have 0 idea and read nothing about it so I'll take your word you might be right
 

VorZakone

What would Kenny G do?
Joined
May 9, 2013
Messages
32,936
Taiwan’s leadership ‘extremely worried’ US could abandon Ukraine

Taiwanese senior officials repeatedly questioned members of a visiting U.S. congressional delegation on what stalled aid to Ukraine means for U.S. commitments to defend the island from potential Chinese aggression.

The CODEL tried to ease those fears by assuring their Taiwanese hosts of the strong bipartisan congressional support for the island. “The people in Taiwan should be confident that regardless of how fractious our election gets, America will stand firmly with Taiwan,” Gallagher said.
Click to expand...
https://www.politico.com/news/2024/02/23/taiwan-leadership-u-s-ukraine-00143047
 

RedDevilQuebecois

Full Member
Joined
May 27, 2021
Messages
8,112
The second segment of the most recent episode of 60 Minutes gives a solid (and very bleak) picture of the situation in China, coming from US ambassador Robert Nicholas Burns himself. When you see the report, you can see why Western and Japanese companies are strongly considering a move out. It's just unbearable for good business.

Here is a short segment of the report as posted on the Twitter account of 60 Minutes.

 

RedDevilQuebecois

Full Member
Joined
May 27, 2021
Messages
8,112
VorZakone said:
Click to expand...
A better view from the Filippino side of the incident. Crikey.


There will come a day when such behavior from the Chinese Coast Guard will be responded with something worse. I won't have any sympathy for them when that will happen.
 
Last edited:

4bars

Full Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2016
Messages
4,906
Supports
Barcelona
VorZakone said:
Click to expand...
I don't see anything good coming for Chinese ethnic workers in the future. They will not be allowed in military and key industries. lately there are so many cases, not only economic spies but extortioned with family back home
 

VorZakone

What would Kenny G do?
Joined
May 9, 2013
Messages
32,936
Espionage Probe Finds Communications Device on Chinese Cranes at U.S. Ports

WASHINGTON—A congressional probe of Chinese-built cargo cranes deployed at ports throughout the U.S. has found communications equipment that doesn’t appear to support normal operations, fueling concerns that the foreign machines may pose a covert national-security risk.

Concerns about ZPMC’s cranes have been building steadily in Washington for years. In 2021, the Federal Bureau of Investigation found intelligence-gathering equipment on board a ship that was transporting cranes into the Baltimore port, the Journal previously reported.
Click to expand...
https://www.wsj.com/politics/nation...hinese-cargo-cranes-867d32c0?mod=hp_lead_pos2
 

berbatrick

Renaissance Man
Scout
Joined
Oct 22, 2010
Messages
21,653
4bars said:
I don't see anything good coming for Chinese ethnic workers in the future. They will not be allowed in military and key industries. lately there are so many cases, not only economic spies but extortioned with family back home
Click to expand...
there was already a US purge of Chinese, more than 5 years ago - basically investigating people of Chinese origin and charging them with anything they could find. Also, student visas for Chinese reseachers are close to impossible - they have to renew very often, and renewal takes months.

Some articles:
https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.364.6443.811

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02976-8

https://www.science.org/content/art...euroscientist-ties-china-sentenced-tax-charge

https://www.science.org/content/art...-initiative-destroyed-scores-academic-careers

Most of these cases are about paperwork rather than espionage, but have the correct effect since US-China science collaboration is declining. Some fall apart in court too, but again, the prosecution matters more than the outcome for what the US govt needs.
 

4bars

Full Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2016
Messages
4,906
Supports
Barcelona
berbatrick said:
there was already a US purge of Chinese, more than 5 years ago - basically investigating people of Chinese origin and charging them with anything they could find. Also, student visas for Chinese reseachers are close to impossible - they have to renew very often, and renewal takes months.

Some articles:
https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.364.6443.811

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02976-8

https://www.science.org/content/art...euroscientist-ties-china-sentenced-tax-charge

https://www.science.org/content/art...-initiative-destroyed-scores-academic-careers

Most of these cases are about paperwork rather than espionage, but have the correct effect since US-China science collaboration is declining. Some fall apart in court too, but again, the prosecution matters more than the outcome for what the US govt needs.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately there is no other way seeing how the cold war with China is developing. Lots of innocent brilliant hardworkers will pay the price.
 

RedDevilQuebecois

Full Member
Joined
May 27, 2021
Messages
8,112
Raven said:
Bare minimum? Wow, you really are talking about death and mutilation.
Click to expand...
OK then. Tell me why traitors should be allowed to not taste severe punishment because of the severe damage they would do to the country that either raised them or gave them a place to call home on the long term.

One thing I know is that a Chinese betraying within China or a Russian betraying within Russia would be sent to prison for life at the very least, and the effect of deterrence appears to be working considering how many sources the CIA has lost in both countries over the years. Deterrence is all that matters when you want to curb such issue in the country.

As a citizen of a country, you have a responsibility to try and see that your country succeeds and improves. Treason is not only you turning your back on that responsibility, but purposely hindering the improvement and/or safety of your country and its citizens.
 
Last edited:

Raven

Full Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2012
Messages
6,728
Location
Ireland
RedDevilQuebecois said:
OK then. Tell me why traitors should be allowed to not taste severe punishment because of the severe damage they would do to the country that either raised them or gave them a place to call home on the long term.

One thing I know is that a Chinese betraying within China or a Russian betraying within Russia would be sent to prison for life at the very least, and the effect of deterrence appears to be working considering how many sources the CIA has lost in both countries over the years. Deterrence is all that matters when you want to curb such issue in the country.

As a citizen of a country, you have a responsibility to try and see that your country succeeds and improves. Treason is not only you turning your back on that responsibility, but purposely hindering the improvement and/or safety of your country and its citizens.
Click to expand...
So should Edward Snowden be executed?
 

4bars

Full Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2016
Messages
4,906
Supports
Barcelona
Seeing how the ukraine war is developing, i am not sure ships are a good investment with all the marine drones
 

4bars

Full Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2016
Messages
4,906
Supports
Barcelona
Raven said:
You need somewhere to launch the drones from.
Click to expand...
They have an autonomy of 1000km but you could launch them from a fishing boat for what it matters but you could use subs. Or even planes with parachutes. You don't need a multibillion battleship that can be destroyed by a drone that costs 200.000 USD, that is stealthy to radars have an autonomy of 1000 km at 100 km/hour and can carry almost a tone of explosive.

Taiwan is less than 1000 km from the chinese coast (for china) and the northern island of Philippines (for US)

And that is Ukraine's in 2024. I can't imagine when they digest the data what China and US can come up with

I am sure that all countries are working in counter measures, but as a person that knows nothing about the topic, I don't know how effectively can avoid this change in warfare
 

RedDevilQuebecois

Full Member
Joined
May 27, 2021
Messages
8,112
VorZakone said:
Click to expand...
The following tweet is a solid description. If the situation was reversed and that the other coast guards (Filipino, Japanese, South Korean) showed the same disregard of UNCLOS in response to the CCG's behavior, I swear to God that a number of Chinese sailors would have taken serious injuries or more by now. Bloody pirates.

 

VorZakone

What would Kenny G do?
Joined
May 9, 2013
Messages
32,936
Chinese students tell the Guardian they are scared to return home and worry for their families after being followed and harassed
Click to expand...
 

VorZakone

What would Kenny G do?
Joined
May 9, 2013
Messages
32,936
The Heritage Foundation (conservative think-tank) seemed to have been an influential player in convincing Republicans to vote against ratifying this treaty, as explained in this CBS article.

 

4bars

Full Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2016
Messages
4,906
Supports
Barcelona
VorZakone said:
Click to expand...
That China is catching up in every aspect (economy, military, technology) is not new. But in case of Navy, with the new drone technology, I don't know how useful or at least how exposed boats are. We might see billions of dollars exploding with hundreds of people in it by a few hundreds thousands unmanned toys
 

RedDevilQuebecois

Full Member
Joined
May 27, 2021
Messages
8,112
VorZakone said:
Click to expand...
I agree with some of the comments in that Twitter thread though. If the US cannot build ships fast enough, they should make a deal with Japan and South Korea in order to build those ships within more reasonable timeframes.

With all the promos on AUKUS, I swear something similar of a deal for surface vessels can exist with the 3 major democratic players in the northern half of the Pacific.
 

VorZakone

What would Kenny G do?
Joined
May 9, 2013
Messages
32,936
4bars said:
That China is catching up in every aspect (economy, military, technology) is not new. But in case of Navy, with the new drone technology, I don't know how useful or at least how exposed boats are. We might see billions of dollars exploding with hundreds of people in it by a few hundreds thousands unmanned toys
Click to expand...
As far as I can tell, Western naval experts on Twitter don't seem too worried about the danger of naval drones. They seem to assess that Western navies are well-equipped and trained for taking out naval drones.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.