Where are the Ladyman/Ogden pieces which have people like @#07 worried?
Controlling Van Gaal
- Thread starter Starkie_1
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) was joined by comedian Ali Woods to look back at the best and worst moments of a rollercoaster season with the annual United Hour Awards.
Has Ten Hag been sacked yet? We're not sure and we hope not, but it's looking more likely as the days pass.
Who should replace him and why is it taking so long to make a decision?
Where did you get this idea from? He although had had wide range of coaching/managing experience in successful clubs all over Europe, this is his first time managing/coaching United and United is a class of its own. Sir Alex was the master mind, and the wide horizon of knowledge you referred to of LvG may not be totally of use for United today!
Bearing in mind the duty of LvG is to RESTORE United to pre Moyes, and not to transform United per se, the stock market example is not really that relevant. United has a blip for 10 months, and since the departure of Moyes, it's always going to be business as usual. Yes, he's a more than solid manager, and every one trusts him to steady the ship. He knows best not to rock the boat whilst introducing his philosophy for sure.
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...-Gaal-buy-Manchester-United-way-thinking.html
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...nster-and-touring-globe-part-of-the-deal.html
They obviously got the briefing from the same source.
I dont think they are as bad as you seem to think they are. I'm even more curious why you're so worried based on those pieces.
Because Lord Odgen and Lord Ladyman wrote them.
Everything they write we should take as gospel.
No doubt he will. He's not the type to stick around if he can't do what he wants.
ha. very good. and i didn forget about responding to your other post btw. should be up by tomorrow (it's early evening here) at the latest
If you bothered to read the original post properly instead of jumping all over the bandwagon of posters who have misinterpreted it maybe you'd understand the point.
I am delighted that he seems to have put a few noses out of joint. It's long been needed at this club, because under Fergie & Moyes it was an absolute shambles how the football side of things were handled. Let alone the media and supporter relations which to me are at an all time low.
Are you serious with that? The most successful manager handled our football side of things in a disastrous manner? Wow! If we were so successful under such horrible football management, how did we end up as the pst successful English club of all time? The revisionism and attitude change towards Fergie is crazy. Can you at least give some examples as to why you think that? And don't start with him not spending money or ignoring midfield because he built a side that worked for him.Mate, don't bother...the best way to go about it when you read those type of posts is either ignore them or else hope that the poster is a wum (for his own sake)
Apologies I should have said in his final few years, obviously I don't mean his entire tenure.
Examples are the handling of some of the youngsters we had either promoted or bought in, especially the likes of Tosic, Bebe, Diouf, De Laet etc. Clearly some of those weren't good enough but rarely were they given chances... The same with experienced players like Nani, Smalling, Jones who to me were seemingly overlooked as soon as an old yet no longer consistent favourite was back.
The transfer situation is there for all to see, there seemed to be no philosophy or plan in the final years. Moyes and Woodward panicked with Fellaini & Mata, that much is clear. RVP was not a necessary signing at the time, we had just signed Kagawa for what seemed like a planned transition. Whilst I agree the chance to get Robin at such a price was very tempting I don't think long term it was viable.
Rotation. His apparently lack of trust in his own tactics. Want more?
Don't get this idea at all. That's not the way to build a squad. You don't build a squad by signing 10 players in one summer, you build it gradually, by having young players waiting in the wings to take over from the more established ones. That's the smooth and organic way to do it. It's how Fergie did it his entire United career and the idea that he would 'stop' buying players in order to leave his successor a broken team and a chest full of money is misguided because that's the wrong way to go about it and Fergie knows that more than anyone.
The problem is, now we have to do it the wrong way (many signings at the same time) because Fergie allowed our squad to regress more and more in his latter years by not addressing the midfield issue, not getting adequate replacements for the important players and wasting money on players that just weren't good enough.
You DO realise that we walked the league in his final season, right? How did that happen, given that the football side of things was a "shambles?"
With regards to your point about not trusting youngsters - I believe the added pressure of City splurging meant he could not trust them as much as he would have liked to. However that doesn't mean he didn't trust the kids. They just followed a different development plan as we saw with the likes of Cleverly, Welbeck etc. which was to loan them out to get some experience and then come back ready as a squad player before making the step up. I think we underestimate how much more tougher the league has become since the days of Class of 92 and to break into a team like United you have to be Ronaldo/Rooney level good at such a young age. So I have to disagree that he wasn't bringing in the youth. Rafael is also a case in point. And the kids you have mentioned were never good enough to stake a squad place let alone a first team and we have seen that in their new clubs.
Moyes and Woodward panicking has nothing to do with Fergie. It was their inability to deal and make up their mind that cost us. Also I believe that Fergie no longer thought he could rely on Rooney, hence the RvP buy. And what do you mean about long term? 4-5 years from a player of his quality is well worth the fee. And if he hadn't joined us then he would have likely gone to City. He was a necessary signing and he proved t with his goals and his overall play which contributed massively to us winning the league.
Rotation - In his later years fergie always said that it was always a squad game and that was his way of everyone getting enough game time and keeping players fresh. We saw that it contributed to our strong finish in the 2nd half as well as not having a player who was so rusty because of lack of game time that he would struggle to fill in when called upon (As opposed to Moyes). Lack of trust in his tactics? Where did you get that from?
Between 01-02 and 03-04 we brought in 20 players; between 05-06 and 07-08 we brought in 15. I'm not convinced by your "smooth and organic" hypothesis.
WTF. Are you a REAL supporter or what??
Omg...
The club give him tens of millions to spend. And next year we will be having cl and none of this shit tours in between.! As for preseason, every team does a tour, it's nothing extraordinary
Stop acting like british pers for a change, the man hasnt even been 1 mth in the job
The club give him tens of millions to spend. And next year we will be having cl and none of this shit tours in between.! As for preseason, every team does a tour, it's nothing extraordinary
Stop acting like british pers for a change, the man hasnt even been 1 mth in the job
No I've just been home, away and abroad every season from the age of 5 for the fun of it mate.
So, I have been an avid supporter since 2013 through thick and thin.
Considering we have spoken in private before about coaching and in such a sensible manner I'm surprised you're not able to reply or debate in a manner suitable for this thread.
I have an opinion, you disagree. Don't bring being a real supporter into anything when you don't know a thing about the person you are talking to. You'd be made to look quite the tit.
He is a straight talker. Thats the only thing. Thats just his personality. Doesn't mean he is some sort of maniac. Obviously a manager is going to want best for his team on the pitch. There will a few changes according to him but don't think it will be anything drastic. Maybe a friendly or 2 less.
Shambles in Fergie's last few years.
What final few years are we talking about. 2013 - champions, 2012 - 2nd, 2011 - champions, 2010 - 2nd, 2009 champions...
Sure, midfield problem is his fault but some people are acting as if he destroyed the club..
What final few years are we talking about. 2013 - champions, 2012 - 2nd, 2011 - champions, 2010 - 2nd, 2009 champions...
Sure, midfield problem is his fault but some people are acting as if he destroyed the club..
Can't give any answers to this yet. Busy relaxing at the Broken Oar !!!!!
There can be a mid point where the club and LVG can meet. The Club can't do without its commercial commitments and LVG needs things his way. These things can happen but it doesn't make it impossible to coexist. I think both parties understand this.
OK, to answer your points. Firstly if I have communicated with you about coaching you will know how passionate I am about the way things are done. Secondly, not that it matters I have the credentials for coaching.
My point about if and what kind of supporter you are is based on the questions you are asking about Van Gaal even though he has only been in the job for a short time and has not even had a home game.
You say that Fergie towed the party line yet look at the success he brought us. Moyes was a disaster and now we have a manager who has a track record of success it appears you already know that he is upsetting the directors already? what is this based on? the media. He was a major success at Barca for a period of time, do you honestly think they would have put up with his antics.
Anybody and in particular supporters who raise these sort of questions after such a short period to me questions their loyalty to our club. That is my point.
This is a discussion forum and we all have opinions but for goodness sake if the man wants to get us back where we belong then I am all for him and will back him 100% until proved wrong.
Thank you for the reply mate. I appreciate things get a bit heated when we skim read things on forums, I'm guilty of it myself.
I think you may have confused my point though. I am absolutely 100% behind Van Gaal, I haven't been this excited before a season for a long time. All the lads (and lasses) I go to games with are exactly the same... This feels 'different' if you were. Moyes was negativity and a blind hope in the fact Fergie chose the right guy. We all kidded ourselves for the good of the club for atleast half a season.
The point my initial post was raising was simply whether with the way football, not just United, is run these days... Would a very confident and forthright manager like LVG be given the complete backing that he deserves. Woodward seems to me to be growing into the type of director that loves attention, and there are lot of supporters out there who know a lot more about the current state of our board than many would believe.
Van Gaal is Fergie Mark II. He is the law.
He really isn't. Ferguson was irreplaceable because he is a complex being. Harsh but calculated. LvG is not as developed as him and things may come to a head. I reckon signs of these cracks will appear in 6 months.
Not a wum by the way, just an outsider's opinion.
United are traded on the stock exchange. First and foremost, they are a business, not a football club. It may not be nice to hear, but that's the truth of it. Van Gaal may be given a honeymoon period, but there's no way he'll be allowed to put advertising and other revenue in jeopardy. This is the brave new world, and he'll have to adapt or expect a short commission.
I think we're already seeing him change, and hopefully it's because he's starting to see the big picture of the club he's joined.
Amongst last night's comments from him, he talked about the 300,000 fans who have had a chance to see us live this tour. I think he actually took some genuine delight in a pre-season friendly breaking the attendance record in the US. Hopefully he's starting to see that the commercial juggernaut really is something to be lived with rather than simply fought against.
Next pre-season he might want things done differently - a fixed training base and not so much travel between matches perhaps. He might want to add different criteria to the hotels we choose or the timing of the games. I'm sure he would fight against the kind of pre-season tour that United had last year for example. Hopefully though he won't feel obliged to lock the team up for 6 weeks in Carrington, before venturing out for a couple of matches in Scotland instead.
Amongst last night's comments from him, he talked about the 300,000 fans who have had a chance to see us live this tour. I think he actually took some genuine delight in a pre-season friendly breaking the attendance record in the US. Hopefully he's starting to see that the commercial juggernaut really is something to be lived with rather than simply fought against.
Next pre-season he might want things done differently - a fixed training base and not so much travel between matches perhaps. He might want to add different criteria to the hotels we choose or the timing of the games. I'm sure he would fight against the kind of pre-season tour that United had last year for example. Hopefully though he won't feel obliged to lock the team up for 6 weeks in Carrington, before venturing out for a couple of matches in Scotland instead.
Tbh this pre season tour was one of the better ones we have had. Played against very good teams.
The tours in Asia were horrible though.
Imagine when demands investment in the team. He will do it in public.
And yet Moyes managed to feck them up
I think LVG is not exactly the autocrat some make him out to be, he can change his views, etc. For example, while criticizing the tour after Real match all he talked about was how important and great it is to connect with american fans and so on. Clearly he had a talk with Woodward and while later recognized that the tour was not ideally planned and promised they would try to accommodate LVG vision better next summer he also probably pointed out that these lucrative preseason tours are a must for United. Ad they expect LVG to built a winning team while having those, same as Fergie did.
And LVG changed a tune a bit, obviously realizing himself that while it's not the best preparation, these tour to Asia, USA give a lot to the brand, that helps to get top money in.
And LVG changed a tune a bit, obviously realizing himself that while it's not the best preparation, these tour to Asia, USA give a lot to the brand, that helps to get top money in.