Could they void the PL due to the Coronavirus? | No | Resuming June 17th

[stevoc]

You lose out on the opportunity to achieve it - is that really so difficult to grasp?

You tell me mate you're the one having problems wrapping your head around the fact you can't lose something you don't yet have. As for opportunities every team would be losing opportunities but every team would be being treated equally. And they'll have those same opportunities to achieve something in the following season.

I notice you dodge every question i've put to you, fair enough but i was genuinely interested in your thoughts on my last question. You seem to think 3 teams were likely to go down, ok but which ones though?

Which teams get a free pass when they were likely to be relegated? A = 3

Theres 3 teams on 27 points one of those in the relegation zone only on GD and Villa on 25 with a game in hand. Which 2 out of those 4 teams were likely to go down?

 

[Bullhitter]

We weren't even having a discussion.

Not directly no, but we were at the same time arguing different sides of the same debate. Just guaging whether you were actually looking to debate the issue as your repeated use of the word guarantee doesn't indicate you are. Nobody is claiming anybody is guaranteed anything so as i said if that's your immovable barometer then it makes little sense to even engage offering the other side.

 

[redman5]

It is kind of bizarre reading this thread with posters claiming "The PL won't dare to deny the scousers the league" and "There will be lawsuits if this or that happens" and so on. First rule of discussion is knowing the basics of what you discuss. When it comes to this discussion, that would be to know who's making the decisions regarding The Premier League..

Well, guess what? The PL is a company fully owned by the clubs that make up the league, and the ultimate decision-making forum is the shareholder meeting (as in any other privately owned company). The shareholders would be the clubs. These shareholders might agree that the best course of action is finishing the league as it stands, but that would not be because "they won't deny the scouser their title", it would be because the majority of the shareholders would benefit from it and therefore vote for that solution. The clubs who would suffer from whatever decision is made won't be able to sue the PL either, as they as shareholders were a part in making the decision.

It's not as this is information buried deep either, it's stated on the Premier League website.

What I do know about the situation is that The Premier League are bound by the decision made by the EFL to complete their remaining fixtures. So at this moment in time it's irrelevant what the EPL want to do. Ultimately, football in this country will be decided by those running the country.

 

[redman5]

No victory parade, no celebration at full time, no winning goal, no going mad in a pub or at home with friends and family. Fans of other sides not recognising it as a proper win and an asterisk next to it forever.

It'll be the shittest title win ever. Totally unfair on Liverpool.

Make it so.

Reading back on posts like this will more than make up for it

 

[redman5]

These are all division 2 type leagues at best.

Let's see what Spain and Italy do, and then what we do before getting too smug.

So you think the EPL will automatically follow the decisions made by the those running La Liga & Seria A ? In Spain there's just 2 points separating the top 2 clubs. In Italy it's even closer, with 1 point dividing top club Juventus & 2nd placed Lazio. & as far as I'm aware, don't The Premier League clubs still have to pay back a shit-load of tv money if the season's not completed ? That, along with LFC being so far ahead in the league compared to the 2 you mentioned, would, I suspect, be the driving force in their way of thinking.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

Reading back on posts like this will more than make up for it

celebrating a title by trawling through your rivals’ football forum for quotes. Crack on, that’s pathetically sad. But if you have nothing better to do on your title winning day, so be it.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

There's no way the season will just be put back and back and back. Keep hearing people say it will be finished when it can be. I'm sorry but this is wrong. They can delay it a little longer for sure but eventually they will have to say enough is enough and either declare everyone's current positions as final or null and void it which is more unlikely I agree. This delay and wait and see tactic is the correct one for me but it can't go on forever.

This is why a few leagues have already moved towards ending it early. More leagues will follow soon I think. And considering we are behind the curve of covid 19 compared to a lot of countries we could well be one that has to end it early.

Imagine if we resume it in June/July and tens of thousands of scousers gather outside anfield because they can't go in the ground to witness the title celebrations. It's asking for trouble.

I can see it being reluctantly cancelled to be honest and everyone's average points per game so far being calculated to make up the points. It's a crap way to end a season but I don't see them throwing away a 38 game season plus cups to finish 9 games. Even more cash will be lost that way.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

Holland will cancel their season this week after their PMs announcement that there will be no gatherings until September.

I expect the vast majority of countries to eventually follow.

 

[RobinLFC]

Holland will cancel their season this week after their PMs announcement that there will be no gatherings until September.

I expect the vast majority of countries to eventually follow.

No licensed events, just to be clear

 

[Judas]

Do Liverpool fans actually want to be given the title when they've not won it? After all theses years, could it be more hollow. I'd rather just win it properly next year if I was them, they'd still be favourites.

 

[RobinLFC]

Do Liverpool fans actually want to be given the title when they've not won it? After all theses years, could it be more hollow. I'd rather just win it properly next year if I was them, they'd still be favourites.

Yet. If the standings are declared final, we have in fact won it since we're top of the league.

And yes, I do. It might not be the ideal celebration or as shiny as we thought it would be with loads of records, but it's still a league title. No matter how many asterisks you guys are gonna want to put next to it

 

[redman5]

celebrating a title by trawling through your rivals’ football forum for quotes. Crack on, that’s pathetically sad. But if you have nothing better to do on your title winning day, so be it.

No more sadder than people like you who'll probably be posting on here throughout the summer about our 'undeserved sympathy' title. Anyway, chances are if we do end up as champions then the call for scouse-culling on here will begin in earnest. This hope of null & voiding the season has kept the wolves at bay thus far. But should it happen & Liverpool get crowned champions, then it's possible I may not be around to indulge in a little bit of light-hearted banter on here with good people like yourself.

 

[redman5]

Do Liverpool fans actually want to be given the title when they've not won it? After all theses years, could it be more hollow. I'd rather just win it properly next year if I was them, they'd still be favourites.

There were United fans on here saying the league was over even when our lead was in the high teens & there were more games left to play. So yes, us being 25 points clear with just 9 games left to play wouldn't dilute my satisfaction one little bit. Are you saying that United fans in general would be pushing for the season to voided if you were in the same position ?

 

[esmufc07]

@Bullhitter it is an infraction on an Internet forum. Nobody cares.

 

[christinaa]

Yet. If the standings are declared final, we have in fact won it since we're top of the league.

And yes, I do. It might not be the ideal celebration or as shiny as we thought it would be with loads of records, but it's still a league title. No matter how many asterisks you guys are gonna want to put next to it

 

[Bullhitter]

What I do know about the situation is that The Premier League are bound by the decision made by the EFL to complete their remaining fixtures. So at this moment in time it's irrelevant what the EPL want to do. Ultimately, football in this country will be decided by those running the country.

The Premier League is a stand alone body and certainly not bound by anything to do with the EFL. If anything it is the other way around. If the PL cancelled their season then the EFL would do likewise within 24 hours as a direct result and the reverse would never happen.

Any action taken by the PL will be as a result of either money, tv partners or government intervention, certainly nothing to do with the EFL or even the FA.

@Bullhitter it is an infraction on an Internet forum. Nobody cares.

I don't do injustice and certainly not over zealous moderators. It's not about the infraction, as I said it's my first and likely last, unless of course outing unfairness here earns me another haha. It's about unnecessary and unneeded action applied unevenly.

 

[Judas]

There were United fans on here saying the league was over even when our lead was in the high teens & there were more games left to play. So yes, us being 25 points clear with just 9 games left to play wouldn't dilute my satisfaction one little bit. Are you saying that United fans in general would be pushing for the season to voided if you were in the same position ?

Obviously not saying that though am I why would I be? What a randomly crap point. Of course Liverpool fans want to finish the season and actually win the league, nowhere did I say you should be calling for the season to be voided. It's been obvious Liverpool would win the league since September, but it doesn't mean its officially won does it.

 

[Isotope]

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

No more sadder than people like you who'll probably be posting on here throughout the summer about our 'undeserved sympathy' title. Anyway, chances are if we do end up as champions then the call for scouse-culling on here will begin in earnest. This hope of null & voiding the season has kept the wolves at bay thus far. But should it happen & Liverpool get crowned champions, then it's possible I may not be around to indulge in a little bit of light-hearted banter on here with good people like yourself.

personally I’ve never posted about a title being underserved or anything like that.

my stance has always been that we should ensure that whatever happens in the PL, it should not negatively affect the lower leagues and their survival is far more important that what happens to any club in the PL, including Liverpool. It’s why I think the season needs to be ended ASAP and clubs have some clarity about what to do over the next few months. Clearly after that, it’s still up in the air.

ive put a no. of posters on my ignore list, most the ridiculous Liverpool posters on here. There has been a great deal of leniency with some of the horrendous posters and posts from these idiots. They should be banned, and we will all be better for it. Your not on that list... yet

I do like a good bit of back and forth and opposition fans on here make good contributions.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

@Bullhitter it is an infraction on an Internet forum. Nobody cares.

Hahah so true

 

[Snafu17]

It's really weird to see how Liverpool fans say their tittle win won't be diluted if it's awarded without finishing the season. I mean, yeah sure the number will go up, but you'll get nothing real out of it, no trophy presentation, no parade, no celebration.

Last moments of your special season would be a loss against Atletico and a loss against Watford. The tittle winning moment would be a drab and lifeless official statement from the Premier League on their official statement. Ending 30 years of hurt with a click on the link, rather than a goal by one of your heroes.

Months of great football culminating in an Wikipedia update.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

@Bullhitter it is an infraction on an Internet forum. Nobody cares.

Sad isn’t it! I’ve got him on my ignore list. de-clutters the thread which is nice!

 

[Phurry]

It's really weird to see how Liverpool fans say their tittle win won't be diluted if it's awarded without finishing the season. I'm yeah sure the number will go up, but you'll get nothing real out of it, no trophy presentation, no parade, no celebration.

I just pray that, if the trophy does get engraved, that there is an * on it

 

[redman5]

The Premier League is a stand alone body and certainly not bound by anything to do with the EFL. If anything it is the other way around. If the PL cancelled their season then the EFL would do likewise within 24 hours as a direct result and the reverse would never happen.

Any action taken by the PL will be as a result of either money, tv partners or government intervention, certainly nothing to do with the EFL or even the FA.



I don't do injustice and certainly not over zealous moderators. It's not about the infraction, as I said it's my first and likely last, unless of course outing unfairness here earns me another haha. It's about unnecessary and unneeded action applied unevenly.

This is from an article I read in The Independent a couple of weeks ago.

The regulations and agreements dictate that the Premier League cannot unilaterally void a season without the agreement of the Football Association and the English Football League. For the same reasons, the top division can’t just decide to re-align relegation so it’s one up, one down rather than three up, three down.


And the EFL’s position is unequivocal: they are determined to finish the season, no matter when that may be. That is down to motivations much greater than any of the Premier League's reasons. It centres around the very survival of tranches of clubs. There are estimations up to 45 clubs could go out of business.


As such, the EFL's position won't be changing, and that effectively locks the Premier League in. It is there where the real potential for legal challenges arise. Multiple sources say that promotion-chasing clubs would have a legitimate argument that they will have suffered extraordinary loss if the Premier League does attempt to void the season and just restart from summer 2019. The expectation is they would be “very aggressive”.

 

[Buchan]

Holland will cancel their season this week after their PMs announcement that there will be no gatherings until September.

I expect the vast majority of countries to eventually follow.

The Dutch. A great bunch of lads.

 

[Wibble]

I received an infraction yesterday due to a post in this thread from moderator "Jippy". I have both replied (multiple times) to his message informing me stating my unhappiness and asking that he either remove the infraction (my first on the site) or that another moderator looks at it. He has not replied and neither did another mod I contacted directly. I then reported his original message to me stating my case and why I think it was unfair and unjust and from what I can see nothing has been done about it.

I am quoting posts from other members. I did not at the time or do not have an issue with their posts to the point where I would feel the need to report them or even reply in kind. I am more than capable of ignoring flammable aspects of posts rather than setting a lighter to them and have continuosly done so in this thread and others.

I am highlighting what is either a difference in how either me personally or perhaps opposition fans are moderated, or maybe "Jippy" just happens to have either misjudged the situation or is a poor moderator. In the order with which they occurred. (again, I have zero issue with any of the individual posters, nor did I at the time)

My infraction and I quote "Do not get into arguments with other members of the site. People will always disagree with other opinions, but don't get hostile about it! Always be respectful to other members of the site."

I was moderated to a completely different degree to other posters and posts made both before, at the same time and after my post for which I received and infraction. See below. To my knowledge none of the following received any action, nor do I particularly think they should but all posters should be moderated to the same standards.




I stated a well reasoned argument and was met with this dismissive and nonsensical response. Hostile (what I was accused of being) one could argue.




This could also be seen as hostile and a tag team effort of sorts especially unnecessary as I was at the time debating the issue directly with both so no need to talk around me.



Certainly hostile. I replied normally, did not fight fire with fire.



Again, an implied "you against us" group mentality used in a direct conversation.



The above is the post for which I received my infraction. You can have an opinion on it, let it be judged by it's surroundings i would say.






The above is certainly hostile towards me, no explanation needed.



Another poster notices, just happens to be an opposition fan too.


----------------------------------------------

Now in another thread I rebutted a point made by a poster last night and was met with



The post he is replying to was not of the same tone. Again, I responded in a normal manner, ignoring his dismissive tone element and insult and stated my case in a reasonable manner against the rest of the post. What I am highlighting is I am not a poster to inflame situations or be dismissive and or rude to another. At the same time highlighting that the same rules are obviously not applied in general and that the post for which I received an infraction, even if one thinks it was less than ideal in tone, was certainly nowhere near out of line enough to warrant stepping in and dealing with and certainly not without applying the same logic to multiple other posts which are clearly worse/more inflammatory.

Let it go. It is just a 2 point warning and others in the same thread were given the same.

 

[Bullhitter]

This is from an article I read in The Independent a couple of weeks ago.

The regulations and agreements dictate that the Premier League cannot unilaterally void a season without the agreement of the Football Association and the English Football League. For the same reasons, the top division can’t just decide to re-align relegation so it’s one up, one down rather than three up, three down.


And the EFL’s position is unequivocal: they are determined to finish the season, no matter when that may be. That is down to motivations much greater than any of the Premier League's reasons. It centres around the very survival of tranches of clubs. There are estimations up to 45 clubs could go out of business.


As such, the EFL's position won't be changing, and that effectively locks the Premier League in. It is there where the real potential for legal challenges arise. Multiple sources say that promotion-chasing clubs would have a legitimate argument that they will have suffered extraordinary loss if the Premier League does attempt to void the season and just restart from summer 2019. The expectation is they would be “very aggressive”.

Happy to be proven wrong but I don't think that would stand up even if accurate. I'd be certain there is only one winner if it came to a battle between the PL and the EFL and sadly a crossing of palms with silver would be all that would be needed for the EFL to concede any ground they had to stand on.

 

[dwd]

Does it even matter any more?

Thousands of titles are won and lost every year across the world, maybe we are all just hypocrites.

 

[redman5]

PPG with automatic promotion only and no relegation provides the best and most reasonable middle ground if the season can't be played to a finish. It will mean a 22 team PL for 20/21 and the trickle down effect down the leagues in terms of numbers but it offers the balance of reward for those who were likely to have earned them and protects sides who have lost the opportunity to protect themselves. The only "losers" here for the most part are sides who are going from a rich PL side with added Champions League money to a rich PL side without CL money or playoff sides who are left in the same spot as though they either didn't make the playoffs or lost in them, hardly catastrophic in either case. I'd feel most sorry for sides 2-3 points off an automatic promotion spot with 9-10 games left but there have to be some losers and again that is by far the lesser evil and the sweetest of bitter pills to swallow.

Seem to recall this idea being suggested not long after football getting suspended. If I'm not mistaken the Brighton chairman kind of endorsed this the other day in an interview regarding of how we should end the season if football's not going to be played for some time. There's no one answer that'll keep all the clubs happy. This suggestion, would, I imagine, be the one that causes the least amount of hassle.

 

[Zexstream]

I love scouse logic, we won the league when actually they didnt win the league, it was awarded not won.

Still I hope Niall bans them all still lol!

 

[Bullhitter]

Let it go. It is just a 2 point warning and others in the same thread were given the same.

You are late to the party, it's ended.

 

[Member 101269]

It's interesting to see tribalism, anger, frustration and some suggesting there lack of clarity for clubs and players.

This is a symptom of the lack of holistic thinking and action from those running the country and the game. It's not healthy. There is a general lack of care/discussion about fans/supporters and the uncertainty/ grasping onto any bit of information and what that does to mental health during a lockdown.

COVID19: 4 Waves of Morbidity/Mortality.


stay safe

 

[Finn MacCool]

You tell me mate you're the one having problems wrapping your head around the fact you can't lose something you don't yet have. As for opportunities every team would be losing opportunities but every team would be being treated equally. And they'll have those same opportunities to achieve something in the following season.

I notice you dodge every question i've put to you, fair enough but i was genuinely interested in your thoughts on my last question. You seem to think 3 teams were likely to go down, ok but which ones though?

Every team would not be losing the same level of opportunities. Regarding who gets relegated it doesn’t matter if we dont yet know who they are if the season is finished 3 will go down.

Maybe this will help you understand:

If the season is voided will it affect Liverpool, Leicester, Palace, Burnley, Norwich and Villa equally? Answers on a postcard.

 

[Salt Bailly]

Ideal scenario: Dippers are awarded a league title that will be forever recognised as illegitimate and the overwhelming majority of their fans on the forum get bounced.

 

[Bullhitter]

Every team would not be losing the same level of opportunities. Regarding who gets relegated it doesn’t matter if we dont yet know who they are if the season is finished 3 will go down.

Maybe this will help you understand:

If the season is voided will it affect Liverpool, Leicester, Palace, Burnley, Norwich and Villa equally? Answers on a postcard.

I wish some would just own their bias. It's a football forum bias is allowed but there's no need to dress it as anything else. Some will genuinely think what they are claiming is the fairest solution but there are a lot of United fans putting a lot of effort into trying to argue a case for null and voiding without having a particularly strong case behind it and it's clear in some cases it boils down to pretty much "I don't want Liverpool winning the title or Leeds getting promoted" which is fine but just say that?

 

[Fox_Chrys]

The only fair and legitimate way to deal with this is to finish the season, even if its 6 months away, there should be no deadlines, none of this done by july nonsense, just a single announcement we "will" finish the season and it will be when "its done".

If football is stopped for say 5 years, which would mean entire squads would be out of contract, and many clubs probably going under, I could understand a void, but not for a few months delay.

Voiding the season is equal to calling it now in terms of unfairness and integrity, its not a neutral decision like many seem to think it is.

 

[Member 101269]

I wish some would just own their bias. It's a football forum bias is allowed but there's no need to dress it as anything else. Some will genuinely think what they are claiming is the fairest solution but there are a lot of United fans putting a lot of effort into trying to argue a case for null and voiding without having a particularly strong case behind it and it's clear in some cases it boils down to pretty much "I don't want Liverpool winning the title or Leeds getting promoted" which is fine but just say that?

There is a stronger reason to void, than handing out trophies like a gift in a packet of cornflakes (when a team hasn't achieved the requirements for a trophy) or relegate when a team isn't mathematically relegated. I'm not sure why you think null and void or curtailed isn't strong. You need to separate conditions of achievement and evidence the season cannot be completed before contracts expire and UEFAs deadline from bias.

I'll never want Liverpool to win, but they simply haven't met the conditions to be award the title.

 

[Sandikan]

The only fair and legitimate way to deal with this is to finish the season, even if its 6 months away, there should be no deadlines, none of this done by july nonsense, just a single announcement we "will" finish the season and it will be when "its done".

If football is stopped for say 5 years, which would mean entire squads would be out of contract, and many clubs probably going under, I could understand a void, but not for a few months delay.

Voiding the season is equal to calling it now in terms of unfairness and integrity, its not a neutral decision like many seem to think it is.

What about lower league teams. How many of them would survive some massive delay? Which 6months would certainly be.

Not to mention any reduced league format the next year.

 

[Dumbstar]

The only fair and legitimate way to deal with this is to finish the season, even if its 6 months away, there should be no deadlines, none of this done by july nonsense, just a single announcement we "will" finish the season and it will be when "its done".

If football is stopped for say 5 years, which would mean entire squads would be out of contract, and many clubs probably going under, I could understand a void, but not for a few months delay.

Voiding the season is equal to calling it now in terms of unfairness and integrity, its not a neutral decision like many seem to think it is.

Oh boy, I hope you're here for the long run. Replies incoming.

 

[Fox_Chrys]

What about lower league teams. How many of them would survive some massive delay? Which 6months would certainly be.

Not to mention any reduced league format the next year.

If there is a 6 months delay to resume football, then voiding the season has no impact on that, doesnt matter if we resume this season or start a new one in that respect.