Cricket ODI Auction Draft

Round 1- Match#2

crappycraperson

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Match #2 - Mani vs TMH/EAP

Please adjudicate as to which team will win over a 3 match series with a match each on following pitches -

#2 Good batting pitch with assistance for seamers/pacers - Reasonably good surface for batsmen; fast bowlers can exploit some movement off the pitch with new ball along with reasonable bounce; no particular assistance for slow bowlers or spinners.
#3 Good batting pitch with assistance for spinners - Reasonably good surface for batsmen; fast bowlers will get no help from the pitch; spinners will be able to exploit the pitch with an older ball
#5 Good bowling pitch for slow bowlers/spinners: slow bowlers/spinners will be get assistance throughout the match; pacers will not get any assistance; batsmen will have to dig deep to make runs against slow bowlers.

Team Mani

1.S.JAYASURYA
2.G.KIRSTEN
3.G.GAMBHIR
4.D.JONES
5.MS. DHONI -(WK) - (C)
6.S.RAINA
7.H.STREAK
8.S.WARNE
9.M.MARSHALL
10.S.BOND
11.M.MORKEL

Team EAP/TMH

1. Virender Sehwag
2. Martin Guptill
3. Virat Kohli
4. Aravinda de Silva
5. Inzamam ul Haq
6. Sarfaraz Ahmad
7. Jacob Oram
8. Daniel Vettori
9. Graeme Swann (Pitch# 3,5) / Mitchell Johnson (Pitch #2)
10. Jason Gillespie
11. Glenn McGrath


Match 2 Result - 4/4 Tie - Edgar won on Super over 19-18

 
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crappycraperson

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Team Mani


Team is well balanced and spinner(S.Warne) remains confident of bowling in any type of pitches, I'll be going with same team for all three pitches.

1.This team got the complimentary opening partnership with (S.Jayasurya & G.Kirsten) Sanath would be more attacking and Kirsten would provide the support Jayasurya requires.These two will play McGrath cautiously at the same time attack bowler coming from other-end to provide some useful runs early in the innings.

2.MIddle and lower middle order(G.Gambhir/D.Jones/MS.Dhoni/S.Raina)
Middle order is well suited to grind out those middle over and provide stability at the same time score some quick runs, unlike the EAP's team this batting line up doesn't have any weak links running between the wickets,Inzy in his team is a disaster waiting to happen.

3.Bowling (M.Marshall /S.Warne /S.Bond/M.Morkel/H.Streak) + S.Jayasurya

I'm going with 5 bowlers, led by M.Marshall ,who can swing the ball either ways at the same time who is more efficient to bowl at the death overs with yorkers, his partner in crime would S.Bond the Aussie buster, his accuracy and pace would trouble any top batsmen and can bowl those Yorkers in death overs like Marshall.M.Morkel would come up as first change, who rely on naming line and length which is difficult to score aganist.Middle overs will be handled by S.Warne, (best spin bowler of the world had ever seen) will be controlling those middle over to provide is usual breaks for the team supported by H.Streak and S.Jayasurya. This team had luxury of having H.Streak at 7 is so crucial, who's average and strike rate is much suited the modern game.

PS, his main spinner D.Vettori averages as similar to my 6th bowler S.Jayasurya plus S.Jayasurya got more wickets in ODI than D.Vettori,this doesn't mean Jaya is better bowler than Vettori but Jaya with my main bowler Warne would be far effective compared to his Vettori.

4.MS.Dhoni -Captain / Wk

Team marshalled by more efficient captain MS.Dhoni, he's not just the explosive batsmen, he improves batsmen's around him gives them much needed confident, which obviously translates to much better batting side while team decides to chase.Staying behind wickets helps him in set perfect fielding.Man had led country to two World Cup success.


I got clear edge over his team in, quick running between the wickets, side that fields better, captain to deal with the situations , depth in bowling as well I go with 5 bowlers plus the X factor S.Warne.

Team EAP / TMH

Why we will win
:

Batting: We believe we have overall stronger batting lineup than Mani's. He has a very good batting lineup too with some of ODI greats in Sanath, Dean Jones and Dhoni but we believe our middle order of Virat, Inzi and Aravinda is significantly better than Gambhir-Raina and Jones. Dhoni is better than Sarfaraz but Oram and Vettori are more adept at lower order than Streak and Marshall especially since role of these players will be quick runs. Also, though it is not easy to categorize pitches in ODIs by country because any country can have batting pitches and usually has in modern times, our 5 Asians in top 6, all average better in Asian conditions. It needs to be pointed out that Mani has a game's great in Warne and we have 2 matches in spin friendly conditions but Warne's bowling average is not great in Asian conditions compared to his overall average. We believe our batsmen can handle Warne. Asian batsmen have proved so.

Bowling: Our team's bowling attack has variation in all departments which is key in ODIs. Pace attack is of McGrath and Gillespie who can both take wickets and keep batsmen in check. Johnson with his pace will be very handy on pace assisting wicket and is a left armer. Oram can generate awkward bounce bowling from his height. Spin attack again has variation with one left armer and one right armer which gives ability to bring ball in as well as take away. on spin pitches, we can get 30-35 overs from Vettori-Swann-Aravinda and Sehwag which is a significant advantage over our opponent whose options are Warne and Sanath. Raina as bowling option is far weaker and ineffective than our support bowlers.

Mani has a got a very good pace attack and has good options like ours on pace pitch and it can be anybody's game, although we expect to get through due to our batting.
On spin pitches, Warne will be limited to 10 overs only and we have mentioned before we have players adept vs spin and a good history vs Warne. Other spin bowler Sanath, though with big number of wickets, was still a support bowler as his average suggests. So with more spin options meaning more spin overs, we expect to limit opponent to smaller total than ours and win on both spin pitches.


Player NameBatting AverageBowling AveragePitches
Virender Sehwag35.0640.14All
Martin Guptill42.5All
Virat Kohli59.34All
Aravinda de Silva34.939.41All
Inzamam ul Haq39.53All
Sarfaraz Ahmad33.85All
Jacob Oram24.129.17All
Daniel Vettori17.3331.72All
Graeme Swann13.8927.773. Good batting pitch with assistance for spinners
5. Good bowling pitch for slow bowlers/spinners
Jason Gillespie12.5725.43All
Glenn McGrath22.02All
Mitchell Johnson16.1225.262. Good batting pitch with assistance for seamers/pacers


Batting:

Our team is built on an explosive opening partnership, a top top quality middle order who can both steady the innings and score quickly and then a lower middle order which goes deep and again very much capable of big hitting.
  • We open with Virender Sehwag and Martin Guptill, both of them part of elite list of 6 people who have scored a double century in ODIs. Sehwag is one of the most explosive players in the game and Few players in world cricket play the short-arm pull on one leg with elegance like Martin Guptill. A classic partnership of power and elegance. Sehwag and Guptill can take the game away from opposition, definitely on good batting tracks.
  • At no. 3 is Virat, arguably the best ODI batsman of all time. I don't know what can be said about him more than previous line. Whatever the continent, whatever the country, his ODI record is unparalled.
  • At no. 4 is Aravinda, a class act to put it simply. MoM in 1996 semi-final and final and big game player. The reason Jayasuriya and Kaluwitharana could have the license to go bang bang in 90s was because they knew that at no. 4 is Aravinda who can be relied on. When he came in semi final, the score was 2/1 with both explosive openers gone and proceeded to score 66 of 47 balls with 14 fours and took game away from India. In final, he came in at 2/23, chasing a challenging score of 242 (for those times) in a world cup final and proceeded to score 107*.
  • At no. 5 is Inzi the gentle giant of Multan. We can expect him to keep cool and carry on scoring in a match when things get tough. Average of ~51 in winning causes and ~29 in losing causes tell his importance to Pakistan's fortunes.These 3 have a combined 33,000 ODI runs between them.
  • Lower middle order comprises of Sarfaraz, Oram and Vettori along with Johnson for one match.. Sarfaraz has proved to be capable of both steadying ship and scoring quickly. Oram also was a powerful hitter and scored a memorable match winning 100 vs Aussies in Perth. Vettori too has a good S/R of 80+. Given the strength of our middle 3, we don't see need for our middle order to bat long, so they will be primarily doing quick hitting.

Bowling:
  • For pitch #3 and #5 where there is assistance for spinners, we are going with a bowling attack of McGrath, Gillespie, Vettori and Swann as 4 key bowlers with Sehwag and Aravinda as support bowlers. We don't see need for Oram to bowl on these pitches.
  • For pitch #2, where there is assistance for pacers, Johnson will come in for Swann. The key bowlers here will be three pronged Aussie pace attack, supported by Oram. Vettori will be the 5th bowler.

+ McGrath and Gillespie: Opening duo. Dizzy and Pidge formed a legendary bowling partnership and complemented each other fantastically. Mcgrath is arguably the best bowler in this format with career average of 22 and economy of just 3.88. Holds the record for most wickets in world cup with 71 in just 39 matches at average of 18. Gillespie too in 2003 averaged just 12 with bowling. At their best, they are a very formidable duo and not easy to get away with.
+ Vettori: One of New Zealand's finest. Coming from a country which is more about swing bowlers, he took over 300 wickets in ODIs. One of the finest left arm spinners ever, has ability to deceive batsman in flight as well as possesses arm ball.
+ Swann: A relatively short ODI career but has very respectable numbers with average of 27 and econ of 4.5. His ability to generate turn and bounce will be very useful. He will be playing on spin assisting pitches.
+ Johnson: A fiery fast bowler, his ODI record may get overlooked due to his legendary Ashes performance. 239 wickets at avg of 25 and SR of 31 he is adept and taking wickets when most needed and will be playing on pitch which has assistance for pace. Although it has to be pointed that his bowling figures are consistently good across countries. He has 25 wickets in 15 world cup matches, at average of 22 and S/R of 29. Another big match player like his compatriots in our team.

Support bowlers:
+ Oram: Delivering balls from height of 1.98m, a very handy support bowler for pace suited pitch. 173 career wickets at average of 29 and econ of just 4.38
+ Sehwag and Aravinda: Both of these will be doing support bowling on spin assisting pitches. Both have ~100 wickets in ODIs. Sehwag quite often delivered India wickets when nothing else was working. Aravinda also was one of key support bowlers in Lanka's big spin department of 90s. Had figures of 9-0-42-3 in 1996 world cup final, dismissing both Taylor and Ponting who had put on century partnership of 100 and were poised to take game away from Lankans.
 

crappycraperson

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#2 Good batting pitch with assistance for seamers/pacers - Very very close. Batting wise Mani's openers are better for me. middle order wise it is close, EAP's depth is definitely better. Due to same I am inclined to give slight edge to EAP for batting. Bowling wise Mcgrath is a stand out ofcourse but Mani's bowling pace attack is good too. It is close but may be EAP nicks this one
#3 Good batting pitch with assistance for spinners - Batting same as above but spin assisting conditions make. a big difference since Warne + Jayasuriya with Raina as part time definitely give Mani an edge on this one. Having said that EAP does have 5 subcontinent batsmen in his line up who should be able to handle spin pretty well. Mani of course has 4 of them too. I think eventually Jayasuriya is the X factor for me here, I can see him making an impact with both his bat and ball on this kind of pitch especially since it is likely he escapes getting blown away by Mcgrath on such a pitch.
#5 Good bowling pitch for slow bowlers/spinners: Same as above mostly but I think Mani's batsmen are more likely to apply themselves on a tough pitch for batsmen. Mani for me.
 

Edgar Allan Pillow

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a big difference since Warne + Jayasuriya with Raina as part time definitely give Mani an edge on this one.
How do you see that?

Warne - 25.74 / 4.25 vs Swann - 27.77 / 4.55 & Vettori - 31.72 / 4.13
.
Jayasuriya - 36.75 vs Aravinda - 39.41 & Sehwag - 40.14

Raina is essentially a non-factor in spin discussions. He had a 50+ bowling average iirc.
No argument about Warne, but I have much more variation between Vettori and Swann. Vettori even has a better Econ rate than Warne and will be stifling in pitch supporting spinners.
Jayasuriya might have a slight edge against Aravinda, but then throw in Sehwag and I still get the better of the equation imo.

In both spin pitches, our team does have the edge in both quantity of spinners and overall ability. Warne alone can't bridge this gap.
 

crappycraperson

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How do you see that?

Warne - 25.74 / 4.25 vs Swann - 27.77 / 4.55 & Vettori - 31.72 / 4.13
.
Jayasuriya - 36.75 vs Aravinda - 39.41 & Sehwag - 40.14

Raina is essentially a non-factor in spin discussions. He had a 50+ bowling average iirc.
No argument about Warne, but I have much more variation between Vettori and Swann. Vettori even has a better Econ rate than Warne and will be stifling in pitch supporting spinners.
Jayasuriya might have a slight edge against Aravinda, but then throw in Sehwag and I still get the better of the equation imo.

In both spin pitches, our team does have the edge in both quantity of spinners and overall ability. Warne alone can't bridge this gap.
I forgot about Sehwag as a spin option, so that's a fair point. I don't rate Swann at all and Vettori was somewhat a defensive spinner for me. Bit I would think this through again.
 

Edgar Allan Pillow

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I forgot about Sehwag as a spin option, so that's a fair point. I don't rate Swann at all and Vettori was somewhat a defensive spinner for me. Bit I would think this through again.
Swann may not have had a long career but between 2009-11 he was one of the best in the world. His peak was quite good. Also between McGrath and Vettori, I can squeeze his batting to a low score.

My strength in middle order will take us over the finish line.
 

Mani

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How do you see that?

Warne - 25.74 / 4.25 vs Swann - 27.77 / 4.55 & Vettori - 31.72 / 4.13
.
Jayasuriya - 36.75 vs Aravinda - 39.41 & Sehwag - 40.14

Raina is essentially a non-factor in spin discussions. He had a 50+ bowling average iirc.
No argument about Warne, but I have much more variation between Vettori and Swann. Vettori even has a better Econ rate than Warne and will be stifling in pitch supporting spinners.
Jayasuriya might have a slight edge against Aravinda, but then throw in Sehwag and I still get the better of the equation imo.

In both spin pitches, our team does have the edge in both quantity of spinners and overall ability. Warne alone can't bridge this gap.
Sehwag is non factor ,Aravinda is non factor,Raina would be non factor and even Sanath Jayasurya would be counted as non factor going by their averages but what makes the difference between these four is the number of wickets between each other,Jaya close to 350 ODI wkts makes him genuine threat when compared to other three also he’s closer to your prime bowler Vettori in his averages,I see this contest as Warne /Jaya vs Vettori in two pitches and Warne / Jaya vs Vettori/Swann in one pitch, there is no place for this part timers in these all time draft,it’s battle between my prime bowlers vs yours,these part timers would just do those fillings and not much.
 

Mani

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Also I rate is my 5th bowlerH.Streak higher than your Oram,this is in term of averages with long career plus number of wickets between each other.H.Streak used to open bowling for Zimbabwe side is used here as 5th bowler which gives me enough depth plus the Jayasuriya who is closer to your prime bowler Vettori,both left arm spin bowlers,averages closer to each other’s, Jayasuriya bowling along with Warne at otherend makes it easier compared to pick wickets/contain runs than Vettori with your other part timers who averages close to 40.
 

Edgar Allan Pillow

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Nonsense. Raina shouldn't even be in discussion with rest of bowlers in either of our team. With 50+ average and 30+wickets, I'm happy if he bowls more. ;)

You just have one main spinner and one support spinner in TWO spin friendly pitches. I have 4 credible bowlers.

Plus McGrath and Vettori will be stingy irrespective and you'll score less. My middle order will win this for us.
 

Mani

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It’s ODI draft and not test match for spinner to have complete domination and going by argument so far it looks like EAP wants to go with Aravinda and Sehwag(part timers) for 10 good overs where my top batsmen’s Dhoni/D.Jones and S.Raina would be batting who are good players of spin who be happy to score 100s of runs in these overs,it’s easy to target these part timers than the main bowlers.
Where as I would bowl Warne and bit of support from Jaya who mould be in much better position to deal with his batsmen.
 

Mani

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Nonsense. Raina shouldn't even be in discussion with rest of bowlers in either of our team. With 50+ average and 30+wickets, I'm happy if he bowls more. ;)

You just have one main spinner and one support spinner in TWO spin friendly pitches. I have 4 credible bowlers.

Plus McGrath and Vettori will be stingy irrespective and you'll score less. My middle order will win this for us.
I never said in my argument I would use S.Raina as a bowler so you can ignore him.
Let’s speak about Inzy instead who got obvious weakness when it comes to running between the wickets,either he going to cost his wicket or V.Kohli’s which would be costly,considering these shorter format require quick running between wickets and batsmen not all the time would depend of boundaries to score runs,middle overs required lot of running between the wickets.
 

Edgar Allan Pillow

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I never said in my argument I would use S.Raina as a bowler so you can ignore him.
Sure, I was just replying to crappy's comment.

Let’s speak about Inzy instead who got obvious weakness when it comes to running between the wickets,either he going to cost his wicket or V.Kohli’s which would be costly,considering these shorter format require quick running between wickets and batsmen not all the time would depend of boundaries to score runs,middle overs required lot of running between the wickets.
He's one of the best ODI batsmen in his position. No weakness can dispute that.
 

Mani

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Sure, I was just replying to crappy's comment.



He's one of the best ODI batsmen in his position. No weakness can dispute that.
Quick running between the wickets is important aspect of the game today no matter who the batsmen is,if he’s not good enough to adopt to the important trait that the modern game requires then he’s would be obvious weakness to the team,he bats along with the likes of Kohli and Sarfaraz who are current generation players who just not rely on stoke making but also excel in other aspect like quick running between wkts to provide those extra runs which adds bit of pressure to the bowler.
 

The Man Himself

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It’s ODI draft and not test match for spinner to have complete domination and going by argument so far it looks like EAP wants to go with Aravinda and Sehwag(part timers) for 10 good overs where my top batsmen’s Dhoni/D.Jones and S.Raina would be batting who are good players of spin who be happy to score 100s of runs in these overs,it’s easy to target these part timers than the main bowlers.
Where as I would bowl Warne and bit of support from Jaya who mould be in much better position to deal with his batsmen.
EAP may not be around and I see you guys had discussion anyway so I won't go in detail, although pointing out that you are ignoring Swann as other spin option besides Vettori. The only reason Jayasuriya wicket numbers are so high is because he bowled that much more. Which can be explained because he offered a variation with his left arm spin. Aravinda was less needed as Murali was there for right arm off and at different stages, Lanka even had proper 2nd spinners too. So Aravinda wasn't always needed. But his avg/SR/Econ aren't significantly worse than Sanath. Like Sanath had good bowling in 96 semi, Aravinda had figures of 9-0-42-3 in final, removing century partnership pair Taylor and Ponting. This contribution of his was as crucial as his hundred else Aussies would have scored 40 odd more easily.
Same goes for Sehwag, bowled less but figures decent for part timer. Raina shouldn't be in discussion and you too have said he won't bowl so fair enough on that point.

I quoted this post because I too wanted to put forward my argument with very first line that it is ODI draft not test :)
What helps in ODI is options. The best spinner of both side is with you. But after that next best 2 are with us. Whether Swann is rated or not, he is a proper spinner. His figures except total wicket are far better than Sanath's as he played far less(The English anyway played/play ODI far lesser than Asian countries) so if he is playing only on spin friendly pitches, he is going to be more effective than Sanath.
Sanath is marginally ahead of both Aravinda and Sehwag but again we have 2 bowlers to counter 1.

What we believe is, since on spin friendly pitch it will be tough to play spinners, the more overs you can get out of opponent from good or decent sources, more chance you can limit opponent to lower score. We both have good players of spin, so both won't collapse but at same time, spinners won't be able to get away easily as well so we can get through more overs for less runs. :)
 

The Man Himself

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ffs I ended up writing big ass post after starting with, "I won't go in detail.." :lol:
 

Mani

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EAP may not be around and I see you guys had discussion anyway so I won't go in detail, although pointing out that you are ignoring Swann as other spin option besides Vettori. The only reason Jayasuriya wicket numbers are so high is because he bowled that much more. Which can be explained because he offered a variation with his left arm spin. Aravinda was less needed as Murali was there for right arm off and at different stages, Lanka even had proper 2nd spinners too. So Aravinda wasn't always needed. But his avg/SR/Econ aren't significantly worse than Sanath. Like Sanath had good bowling in 96 semi, Aravinda had figures of 9-0-42-3 in final, removing century partnership pair Taylor and Ponting. This contribution of his was as crucial as his hundred else Aussies would have scored 40 odd more easily.
Same goes for Sehwag, bowled less but figures decent for part timer. Raina shouldn't be in discussion and you too have said he won't bowl so fair enough on that point.

I quoted this post because I too wanted to put forward my argument with very first line that it is ODI draft not test :)
What helps in ODI is options. The best spinner of both side is with you. But after that next best 2 are with us. Whether Swann is rated or not, he is a proper spinner. His figures except total wicket are far better than Sanath's as he played far less(The English anyway played/play ODI far lesser than Asian countries) so if he is playing only on spin friendly pitches, he is going to be more effective than Sanath.
Sanath is marginally ahead of both Aravinda and Sehwag but again we have 2 bowlers to counter 1.

What we believe is, since on spin friendly pitch it will be tough to play spinners, the more overs you can get out of opponent from good or decent sources, more chance you can limit opponent to lower score. We both have good players of spin, so both won't collapse but at same time, spinners won't be able to get away easily as well so we can get through more overs for less runs. :)
I don't understand why you go with one match figure to show that you got better spinner with Aravinda, if we go that route then we can't ignore Gambhir's contribution to 2011 WC final, Dhoni's contribution as batsmen and captain in the final, Jayasurya's all round contribution in 1996 WC, he was the main source for SL to get those early runs, his blistering start in those early overs made it easy for the batsmen like Aravinda "Ranatunga to play some calm innings later in the middle overs, if you take away Sanath Jayasurya ( player of the WC 1996) then SL would have never won the WC.Same way you can't ignore S.Warne when we speak about the spin bowling who's contribution in 1996 ensured Aussie progress to WC final. Similarly his performance in WC 1999 was vital for Aussie in those middle overs to get those crucial Wickets (his dismissal of both openers Gibbs and Kirsten) gave the Aussies the vital break through and ending up the match figure of 4/29 from his 10 over quota and in the final he took other 4/33 from his 9 overs which is economical as well and calming those crucial wickets got the Aussies the WC.
Also when it comes to ODI there is not much these pitches would contribute especially to those spinners unless its Sharpe turner, like the one we see in sub continent in test matches.
Sanath's contribution would be more support role to Warne in those spin friendly pitches, going by the averages of the two partners (Aravinda and Sehwag) is at 40's when the batsmen like Jones/Dhoni/Raina could easily make use of those 10-20 overs this could easily go up to 60 runs per 10 overs., its easy to counter and play these part timers and score those attacking shorts.Dhoni and Raina had good records in sub continent pitches.So what I mean here is more the part timers bowling more the runs my batsmen would get on board.
Also you guys need to note its only 50 overs match and when you give those part timers those 10-15 overs you limiting prime bowlers over quota, where prime bowlers had better chances to get those crucial wickets than those part timers, Prime bowlers >Part timers and especially in these all time draft I don't go into match with part timers to do the main job, they are more support role and nothing more.
 

Mani

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S.Warne's 4/36 in WC SF against W.Indies, with Windies getting closer to victory it was Warne's duty to ensure that Windies doesn't get close to the victory.



With SA comfortable with opening Wkt stand of 48 with no wk loss it was Warne's duty to break those crucial partnership of dismissing both the opener's (Gibbs and Kristen) in two consecutive overs and later came back to claim Kallis and Cronje, its not easy defending those low scores 200+, unless you have bowler like Warne in your squad you can't break the teams in middle overs which you part timers can't do.And like Crappy stated here before Vettori is more of a defensive bowler Swann even lesser its immaterial what kind of pitch they bowl in unless its test match cricket.
 

The Man Himself

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I don't understand why you go with one match figure to show that you got better spinner with Aravinda,
I never claimed Aravinda is better than Sanath? I claimed to be on par with infact Sanath slightly ahead. I just showed that Aravinda is not a Raina level bowler.
Also when it comes to ODI there is not much these pitches would contribute especially to those spinners unless its Sharpe turner, like the one we see in sub continent in test
That's for game mod to answer. He has clearly mentioned that one pitch has so much assistance for spinners and slow bowlers that batsmen will have to dig in to score. If pitch is that much suited to spin, then no your middle order is not just going to milk the part-time spinners.


Also you guys need to note its only 50 overs match and when you give those part timers those 10-15 overs you limiting prime bowlers over quota, where prime bowlers had better chances to get those crucial wickets than those part timers
Again this is pitch specific. On the pitch which is so much suited for spinners that batsmen will have to dig in and it is mentioned that pacers will get no support whatsoever, spinners bowling more has to be beneficial. On pitch which is batsman friendly with some assistance for spinners, we can have part-timers bowling lesser.
 

The Man Himself

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unless you have bowler like Warne in your squad you can't break the teams in middle overs which you part timers can't do.And like Crappy stated here before Vettori is more of a defensive bowler Swann even lesser its immaterial what kind of pitch they bowl in unless its test match cricket.
First thing, I stated Warne is obviously the best spinner in both sides combined but he is limited to 10 overs. Second, he is not bowling to South Africa or West Indies, notoriously bad players of spin, in this match. Warne averages 55 against India in ODIs. 55. At strike rate 64 something.

Also, Swann was by no means a defensive bowler. Anything but. Individually Vettori and Swann are obviously are lesser but I will again come back to pitch description and say that if spinners are getting joy on a pitch in ODI, better to have more options.
 
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The Man Himself

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The whole reason we built up squad with more options for both bowling kinds is due to description of pitch #4 and #5. They are as good as test pitches. If after that we still comeback to say that ODI pitches are never that assisting to bowlers, we shouldn't have had #4 and #5. Those are exact pitches where decent options become good thanks to pitch and simple maths that more overs means more probability of success.
 

Mani

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I think you misread my whole argument on picking one match as example to show player in limelight, even I don’t like comparing player A to B, they are in this draft for reason of what they do best at.My point is why players are highlighted based on one prime performance when whole career is in consideration.
 

Mani

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First thing, I stated Warne is obviously the best spinner in both sides combined but he is limited to 10 overs. Second, he is not bowling to South Africa or West Indies, notoriously bad players of spin, in this match. Warne averages 55 against India in ODIs. 55. At strike rate 64 something.

Also, Swann was by no means a defensive bowler. Anything but. Individually Vettori and Swann are obviously are lesser but I will again come back to pitch description and say that if spinners are getting joy on a pitch in ODI, better to have more options.
Again why we go straight away get to India when the pitches are stated as generally favours spinner ? What happen to pitches in SL and Pakistan ? Don’t they favour spin anymore ?
Warne’s average in Pakistan is 23.75,in SL he averages 25.72.
 

Mani

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The whole reason we built up squad with more options for both bowling kinds is due to description of pitch #4 and #5. They are as good as test pitches. If after that we still comeback to say that ODI pitches are never that assisting to bowlers, we shouldn't have had #4 and #5. Those are exact pitches where decent options become good thanks to pitch and simple maths that more overs means more probability of success.
Pitches are more into contention when it’s test and less supportive in case of ODI’s,but these are when game had more balance with equal competition between bat and ball,Morden day games are played in more flat pitches and some pitches supportive to early swing bowling.
 

The Man Himself

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Again why we go straight away get to India when the pitches are stated as generally favours spinner ? What happen to pitches in SL and Pakistan ? Don’t they favour spin anymore ?
Warne’s average in Pakistan is 23.75,in SL he averages 25.72.
I gave you an example that just by having Warne doesn't tip balance or doesn't mean you can run through middle order when there are good players of spin in our XI. We have less overs of spin to tackle and should help us more on spin track.
 

The Man Himself

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Pitches are more into contention when it’s test and less supportive in case of ODI’s,but these are when game had more balance with equal competition between bat and ball,Morden day games are played in more flat pitches and some pitches supportive to early swing bowling.
That's irrelevant in this draft contention when elaborate description of pitch is given and no. 4 and 5 have nothing for batsmen unless they fight a lot.
 

Mani

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I gave you an example that just by having Warne doesn't tip balance or doesn't mean you can run through middle order when there are good players of spin in our XI. We have less overs of spin to tackle and should help us more on spin track.
I can only remember one batsmen ,which is Sachin who dominated Warne.Anyway this match is done and well played TMH.
Tie now,how will be this decided now?
@crappycraperson
 
Super over rules

crappycraperson

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@Edgar Allan Pillow @The Man Himself @Mani

Please sent in your options per below for SUPER OVER


Super Over Rules

Both managers to sent in the following.

Bowler - xxxxx (Choose one bowler)
Options: Yorker, Bouncer, Good Length (can choose only one for a ball, only two bouncers allowed)
Ball 1 -
Ball 2 -
Ball 3 -
Ball 4 -
Ball 5 -
Ball 6 -

Batsmen - xxxx / xxxxx (Choose two batsmen)
Options - Pull, Drive , Slog (Choose one shot selection against each of 6 hits below.)
Hit 1-
Hit 2-
Hit 3-
Hit 4-
Hit 5-
Hit 6 -

---------------------------
Scoring Rules:
  1. Pull on Bouncer = 6 runs
  2. Drive / Slog on Bouncer = No run
  3. Pull on Yorker = Out
  4. Slog on Yorker = 2 runs
  5. Drive on Yorker = 6 runs
  6. Drive on on good length = Out
  7. Pull on good length = 2 runs
  8. Slog on good length = 6 runs
  9. If two wickets fall then innings is over
  10. The team which scores most run wins, if even that is tied then one with least wickets lost wins, if even that is tied then one with most 6s wins. If even that is tied then we go again.
 
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Mani

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@Edgar Allan Pillow @The Man Himself @Mani

Please sent in your options per below for SUPER OVER


Super Over Rules

Both managers to sent in the following.

Bowler - xxxxx (Choose one bowler)
Options: Yorker, Bouncer, Good Length (can choose only one for a ball, only two bouncers allowed)
Ball 1 -
Ball 2 -
Ball 3 -
Ball 4 -
Ball 5 -
Ball 6 -

Batsmen - xxxx / xxxxx (Choose two batsmen)
Options - Pull, Drive , Slog (Choose one option for all 6 hits)
Hit 1-
Hit 2-
Hit 3-
Hit 4-
Hit 5-
Hit 6 -

---------------------------
Scoring Rules:
  1. Pull on Bouncer = 6 runs
  2. Drive / Slog on Bouncer = No run
  3. Pull on Yorker = Out
  4. Slog on Yorker = 2 runs
  5. Drive on Yorker = 6 runs
  6. Drive on on good length = Out
  7. Pull on good length = 2 runs
  8. Slog on good length = 6 runs
  9. If two wickets fall then innings is over
  10. The team which scores most run wins, if even that is tied then one with least wickets lost wins, if even that is tied then one with most 6s wins. If even that is tied then we go again.
Sent mine @The Man Himself @Edgar Allan Pillow
 
Mani vs EAP Super over

crappycraperson

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Super over EAP/TMH vs Mani

Mani bats first and sends out Jayasuriya first , It is McGrath on opposing end.

Ball 1 - It 's a yorker and Jayasuriya tried a pre-mediated pull ... OUT!




Out comes Dhoni.. it is all on him now..

Ball 2- a bouncer this time ... wild slog.. no connection, no runs

..
...Not looking good for Mani....
..
..
.


Ball 3 - Good length delivery this time..another wild slog.. and it's a SIX!

Ball 4 - McGrath goes back to the bouncer again - Dhoni can't connect with an ambitious drive and no runs again

Ball 5 - Good length another time.. yet another slog.. and same result again... SIX !

Ball 6 - Last ball of the innings and it is an attempted yorker... Dhoni knows is coming.. it is the Helicopter Drive... SIX!



@Mani finished with a daunting total of 18 runs.
 

Mani

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Super over EAP/TMH vs Mani

Mani bats first and sends out Jayasuriya first , It is McGrath on opposing end.

Ball 1 - It 's a yorker and Jayasuriya tried a pre-mediated pull ... OUT!




Out comes Dhoni.. it is all on him now..

Ball 2- a bouncer this time ... wild slog.. no connection, no runs

..
...Not looking good for Mani....
..
..
.


Ball 3 - Good length delivery this time..another wild slog.. and it's a SIX!

Ball 4 - McGrath goes back to the bouncer again - Dhoni can't connect with an ambitious drive and no runs again

Ball 5 - Good length another time.. yet another slog.. and same result again... SIX !

Ball 6 - Last ball of the innings and it is an attempted yorker... Dhoni knows is coming.. it is the Helicopter Drive... SIX!



@Mani finished with a daunting total of 18 runs.
Dhoni to the rescue, nervous now