[Bebestation]

Replying to myself here, but I think that that was also true in his Juventus years. He was top scorer for the club by some distance in the 3 years, but Juventus as a team didn’t do any better than in the 3 previous seasons when he wasn’t there.

Edit; just checked. Juve scored 238 goals in the 3 seasons before Ronaldo, 223 in the 3 seasons after; 15 less.

I think this is what you might be trying to talk about:

2020-21
Juventus Serie A Top Scorer
1. Ronaldo 29
2. Morata 11
3. Chiesa 8
4. Mckennie 5

2019-20
Juventus Serie A Top Scorer
1. Ronaldo 31
2. Dybala 11
3. Higuain 8
4. De Ligt 4

2018-19
Juventus Serie A Top Scorer
1. Ronaldo 21
2. Mandzukic 9
3. Kean 6
4. Dybala 5

2017-18 (season pre Ronaldo)
Juventus Serie A Top Scorers
1. Dybala 22
2. Higuain 16
3. Khedira 9
4. Pjanic & Mandzukic 5

 

[Bebestation]

Thanks for posting the video, Ronaldo score some worldies still, simply amazing for his age.

I kinda agree with you that Ronaldo needs a foil for maximum effectiveness.
But isn't it the same idea we should be doing for the entire team? About maximizing effectiveness using what you have? I dont see it as an issue of having Ronaldo but rather more of us not knowing how to use the squad, Ronaldo is just another symptom. We are simply not using the squad correctly. When we have Sancho, Rashford, Lingard, Fernandes, Martial, Greenwood, Cavani, Ronaldo, Elanga, Shoretire, Amad and occasionally Pogba vying for 2 to 3 forward positions, I think the question shouldn't be Ronaldo suiting our style of play or him not pressing causing issues with the squad.

He may be unplanned and the team may need to adjust to maximize his output, but personally I rather having him than not. I'm also hoping some of the younger players pick up something while he is here.

I'm very happy that C Ronaldo is here. However, I have a feeling that people assume the LW C Ronaldo is the same as the central ST Ronaldo.

This is shown by people who get fustrated by Rashford's inability to stick to the proper ST positions Vs Atalanta - but when heatmaps and videos are showing that the new Striker version of Ronaldo is also playing off at an angle doing the exact same thing as Rashford - no one really complains. He is at an angle that leaves the opposition ball playing defenders and midfielders free if he does not press because he does not even position him centrally most of the time.

Why is that?

Because just as Rooney turned in to a CAM/CM as he got older whilst he was always a striker - Ronaldo is always a LW who has turned in to a central striker doing less and less as he has gotten older.


As simple as it sounds mate - what did you see when we had Sancho, Rashford, Greenwood on the bench and Ronaldo and Cavani starting?

Us as a team trying to get the best out of Ronaldo. That's all it was and it has nothing - absolutely nothing to do with Rashford, Sancho and Greenwood's form or anything.

People saying that we should play a 433 or a 4231 with Ronaldo as a lone striker and inverted forwards like Rashford at LW and Sancho or Greenwood at RW- if it was that easy for him to do it when he was 36, then why didn't clubs do it in his prime? Why was he never a central striker in his prime that was capable of leading the line by himself? Not scoring the goals - but leading the line.

Instead played Benzema passing, pressing or blocking off the lanes. Switch the name with Rooney and its not a made up vision either.

The thing is I'm very happy Ronaldo's here, but I just wish we used him as a player we would use against certain teams or at a certain time when we needed clutch goals that we all know Ronaldo can bring better than anyone else.

Instead here we are with Ronaldo both as our main player and our main attacking tactic for the full 90 mins and beautifully wonderfully acting shocked everytime he scores a clutch goal even though he is our main striker now and nearly everyone looks a shadow of their former selves because we are built towards getting the best out of the GOAT again at the age of 36 in an attacking way but nothing what so ever in a defensive way either.

I was really excited to see Rashford, Greenwood, Sancho in our starting line up this season or some close alternatives. Maybe even some Amad, using some Martial during his last couple months. Watching Bruno be our main goalscorer and assist man like he was last year where he would almost play like a support striker.

For me personally, It would have been good to see that as our Plan A and when that wasn't working see if Ronaldo could make the difference as our Plan B. For me that's two different alternative types of football that could be used in different times to go and compete for a title.

That's not what happened though and Ronaldo is our Plan A and we don't really have a plan B at all. The moment he got put on the subs bench there was an uproar that this cannot simply happen again. We were in control of the match vs Everton when he was on the bench, he came on and we lost all control and what happened- people said Ronaldo shouldn't have been on the bench because he is the main goalscorer and he could have scored more goals.

He has scored 4 goals in the PL so far. 4. People blame every single player and manager except him.

Anyway, I'd have been happy with Ruud Van Nistlerooy wasnt sold and coming off the bench even during our 2008 CL win squad because he can score goals. But putting Ruud Van Nistlerooy in the middle as our main man and having Ronaldo and Rooney as his wingers doesn't seem right to me.

Ronaldo sure is another level, but he was also a LW, not a Central lone Striker either - building the team centrally around him and watching Rashford, Greenwood, Sancho and the others like Amad not being what United is about in 2021 is very disappointing. Its building the team around Ruud in 2008 Instead of Ronaldo and Rooney.

 

[L1nk]

Will want to leave in January if this continues, i would imagine. He will absolutely not accept this drop in standards that the board are insisting on

 

[RepardReece]

I'm very happy that C Ronaldo is here. However, I have a feeling that people assume the LW C Ronaldo is the same as the central ST Ronaldo.

This is shown by people who get fustrated by Rashford's inability to stick to the proper ST positions Vs Atalanta - but when heatmaps and videos are showing that the new Striker version of Ronaldo is also playing off at an angle doing the exact same thing as Rashford - no one really complains. He is at an angle that leaves the opposition ball playing defenders and midfielders free if he does not press because he does not even position him centrally most of the time.

Why is that?

Because just as Rooney turned in to a CAM/CM as he got older whilst he was always a striker - Ronaldo is always a LW who has turned in to a central striker doing less and less as he has gotten older.


As simple as it sounds mate - what did you see when we had Sancho, Rashford, Greenwood on the bench and Ronaldo and Cavani starting?

Us as a team trying to get the best out of Ronaldo. That's all it was and it has nothing - absolutely nothing to do with Rashford, Sancho and Greenwood's form or anything.

People saying that we should play a 433 or a 4231 with Ronaldo as a lone striker and inverted forwards like Rashford at LW and Sancho or Greenwood at RW- if it was that easy for him to do it when he was 36, then why didn't clubs do it in his prime? Why was he never a central striker in his prime that was capable of leading the line by himself? Not scoring the goals - but leading the line.

Instead played Benzema passing, pressing or blocking off the lanes. Switch the name with Rooney and its not a made up vision either.

The thing is I'm very happy Ronaldo's here, but I just wish we used him as a player we would use against certain teams or at a certain time when we needed clutch goals that we all know Ronaldo can bring better than anyone else.

Instead here we are with Ronaldo both as our main player and our main attacking tactic for the full 90 mins and beautifully wonderfully acting shocked everytime he scores a clutch goal even though he is our main striker now and nearly everyone looks a shadow of their former selves because we are built towards getting the best out of the GOAT again at the age of 36 in an attacking way but nothing what so ever in a defensive way either.

I was really excited to see Rashford, Greenwood, Sancho in our starting line up this season or some close alternatives. Maybe even some Amad, using some Martial during his last couple months. Watching Bruno be our main goalscorer and assist man like he was last year where he would almost play like a support striker.

For me personally, It would have been good to see that as our Plan A and when that wasn't working see if Ronaldo could make the difference as our Plan B. For me that's two different alternative types of football that could be used in different times to go and compete for a title.

That's not what happened though and Ronaldo is our Plan A and we don't really have a plan B at all. The moment he got put on the subs bench there was an uproar that this cannot simply happen again. We were in control of the match vs Everton when he was on the bench, he came on and we lost all control and what happened- people said Ronaldo shouldn't have been on the bench because he is the main goalscorer and he could have scored more goals.

He has scored 4 goals in the PL so far. 4. People blame every single player and manager except him.

Anyway, I'd have been happy with Ruud Van Nistlerooy wasnt sold and coming off the bench even during our 2008 CL win squad because he can score goals. But putting Ruud Van Nistlerooy in the middle as our main man and having Ronaldo and Rooney as his wingers doesn't seem right to me.

Ronaldo sure is another level, but he was also a LW, not a Central lone Striker either - building the team centrally around him and watching Rashford, Greenwood, Sancho and the others like Amad not being what United is about in 2021 is very disappointing. Its building the team around Ruud in 2008 Instead of Ronaldo and Rooney.

funny how you fail to mention his CL record there.

Embarrassing now how much time you're spending trying to prove he's the issue.

First, it was the defense, and now you're implying it's the attack.

Get over yourself and enjoy the one bright spot we've had so far this season. It's really getting quite sad now

 

[Bebestation]

funny how you fail to mention his CL record there.

Embarrassing now how much time you're spending trying to prove he's the issue.

First, it was the defense, and now you're implying it's the attack.

Get over yourself and enjoy the one bright spot we've had so far this season. It's really getting quite sad now

Why should I listen to you

When did I get scared of you exactly telling me how I should be embarrassed?

Get. Over. Your. Self.

I said perfectly in that post that he scores clutch goals (which he has done in the CL) but ultimately he is our Plan A and our main striker now, the goals have to come from him. We are built to get the best out of Ronaldo, not to get the best out of Rashford, Greenwood and Sancho.

You want proof -

352.

Get over yourself.

Funniest thing is it's like the Ole ex team mates not saying things about Ole - the United fans don't really say it about Ronaldo - nearly all stats, other footballers, other clubs players, news articles, youtube videos, data and everything proves it with literally with CCTV, but just like Ole, the ex team mates say NO - he is perfect

 

[RepardReece]

Why should I listen to you

When did I get scared of you exactly telling me how I should be embarrassed?

Get. Over. Your. Self.

I said perfectly in that post that he scores clutch goals (which he has done in the CL) but ultimately he is our Plan A and our main striker now, the goals have to come from him. We are built to get the best out of Ronaldo, not to get the best out of Rashford, Greenwood and Sancho.

You want proof -

352.

Get over yourself.

Funniest thing is it's like the Ole ex team mates not saying things about Ole - the United fans don't really say it about Ronaldo - nearly all stats, other footballers, news articles, youtube videos, data and everything proves it with literally with CCTV, but just like Ole, the ex team mates say NO - he is good

fairly sure they've been saying this for the past 10 years, yet he consistently proves otherwise.

9 goals in 12 games is fairly decent for a striker, no? How many strikers have a better record than that currently? Not many.

No one's saying he's perfect, but pretty sure the majority of people here are fed up with your antics basically trying to debunk he's the reason why the world is ending.

Like I said, get over yourself, go outside for a walk and take a refreshing break. You're literally Souness every time Pogba is mentioned, but with Ronaldo

 

[Bebestation]

fairly sure they've been saying this for the past 10 years, yet he consistently proves otherwise.

9 goals in 12 games is fairly decent for a striker, no? How many strikers have a better record than that currently? Not many.

No one's saying he's perfect, but pretty sure the majority of people here are fed up with your antics basically trying to debunk he's the reason why the world is ending.

Like I said, get over yourself, go outside for a walk and take a refreshing break. You're literally Souness every time Pogba is mentioned, but with Ronaldo

An no because I don't doubt Ronaldo's ability to score - but neither do I feel we had the trouble to score to the point where we rebuild our whole style to get the best out of Ronaldo and mostly only Ronaldo. Our main problem was creativity vs the low block.


Look at 90% of Ronaldo's goals, from crosses, volleys, just great hits after some scruffiness of the ball bouncing in and around the penalty box.

Was that how we played football last season? Was that how Bruno Fernandes scored his goals?

Forget him-

Look at Greenwood


Literally the ball is on the floor 90% of the time, and Greenwood gets it to his feet before he dribbles and shoots. Nope that isn't happening now because soon as someone gets the ball people are crossing it in for Ronaldo

Literally the ball is on the floor for 90% of Greenwood’s goals.

Rashford and Greenwood can't score from playing the football that gets the best out of Ronaldo - you think they can score the goal Ronaldo scored vs Spurs not a chance, just to prove a point.

Oh no, but then the football that Greenwood and Rashford are playing won't get the best out of Ronaldo either- you think Ronaldo can score the Rashford goal straight after Injury from Lindelof's CB'S pass that beat everyone and all Rashford had to do was make a timed run


Anyway, get over yourself. Go for a walk.

Your thinking too much about Ronaldo and trying to protect him with no proof or nada- a break, he isn't really thinking about you. It shouldn't really hurt.

Just like the fans that sit at the stadium clapping at Ole even when we lose 5-0;

You stand there clapping at Ronaldo every bloody game like he can do no better, like he can do no wrong.

I respect his goals, always have and always will - but just because your here telling me to go out because you just can't stand my proof and posts - I will just say..

4 goals in the PL

 

[RepardReece]

An no because I don't doubt Ronaldo's ability to score - but neither do I feel we had the trouble to score to the point where we rebuild our whole style to get the best out of Ronaldo and mostly only Ronaldo. Our main problem was creativity vs the low block.


Look at 90% of Ronaldo's goals, from crosses, volleys, just great hits after some scruffiness of the ball bouncing in and around the penalty box.

Was that how we played football last season? Was that how Bruno Fernandes scored his goals?

Forget him-

Look at Greenwood


Literally the ball is on the floor 90% of the time, and Greenwood gets it to his feet before he dribbles and shoots. Nope that isn't happening now because soon as someone gets the ball people are crossing it in for Ronaldo

Literally the ball is on the floor for 90% of Greenwood’s goals.

Rashford and Greenwood can't score from playing the football that gets the best out of Ronaldo - you think they can score the goal Ronaldo scored vs Spurs not a chance, just to prove a point.

Oh no, but then the football that Greenwood and Rashford are playing won't get the best out of Ronaldo either- you think Ronaldo can score the Rashford goal straight after Injury from Lindelof's CB'S pass that beat everyone and all Rashford had to do was make a timed run


Anyway, get over yourself. Go for a walk.

Your thinking too much about Ronaldo and trying to protect him with no proof or nada- a break, he isn't really thinking about you. It shouldn't really hurt.

Just like the fans that sit at the stadium clapping at Ole even when we lose 5-0;

You stand there clapping at Ronaldo every bloody game like he can do no better, like he can do no wrong.

I respect his goals, always have and always will - but just because your here telling me to go out because you just can't stand my proof and posts - I will just say..

4 goals in the PL

I'm barely even reading your posts tbh. I literally came in here to say I think the general consensus is everyone is growing tired of your agenda.

For some reason, you're still biting and coming back with tons of pointless analysis. And maybe I'll bite if we get a new manager who can actually set us up tactically. But as of right now you're blaming Ronaldo for shite left right and center when the problem is clearly ole.

Why can't you just enjoy the moment and enjoy watching a legend return to our club and score some amazing goals? He's been the only bright spark so far this season.

 

[Bebestation]

I'm barely even reading your posts tbh. I literally came in here to say I think the general consensus is everyone is growing tired of your agenda.

For some reason, you're still biting and coming back with tons of pointless analysis. And maybe I'll bite if we get a new manager who can actually set us up tactically. But as of right now you're blaming Ronaldo for shite left right and center when the problem is clearly ole.

Why can't you just enjoy the moment and enjoy watching a legend return to our club and score some amazing goals? He's been the only bright spark so far this season.

Exactly your not reading it because Ronaldo is your Darling.

Take a break, I'm not hurting him anymore.

I'm not reading your rubbish either.

No stats, videos, articles, data, nothing.

Just words that you type about Ronaldo.


Bruno Fernandes hasn't even scored a penalty this year and hardly scores the goals like he used to

No.no. Ronaldo has made no change. Hahaha.

See you outside!

 

[Dec9003]

A video of every Ronaldo goal since his return, interesting mix of goals really, certainly not all from crosses.

https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/clubs/total_cross?se=418

As tracked by the premier league, last season United ranked 15th for crosses, whereas this season they are ranked 9th for crosses. There has certainly been an increase in the amount we put the ball in the box, however Manchester City have jumped up from being 16th to 2nd in terms of crosses, so perhaps the narrative that we’re always putting crosses in for Ronaldo simply isn’t true. We actually put the ball into the box considerably less than Liverpool and City do, and the increase in crosses is far greater for our neighbours than us. Maybe the teams that tend to have the ball more, put more crosses in? We’ve tended to be hit on the counter more this season, as opposed to previous years where we played as the deep counter attacking team.

 

[RepardReece]

Exactly your not reading it because Ronaldo is your Darling.

Take a break, I'm not hurting him anymore.

I'm not reading your rubbish either.

No stats, videos, articles, data, nothing.

Just words that you type about Ronaldo.


Bruno Fernandes hasn't even scored a penalty this year and hardly scores the goals like he used to

No.no. Ronaldo has made no change. Hahaha.

See you outside!

I'm not even debating what you're saying, I'm literally saying your agenda is pretty pathetic.

He has made a change to the squad, i'm not even arguing that - i'm stating he's not the reason why we're struggling so much but you have that much of an agenda your mind is just locked in place with 1 thought.

Oh yeah - cos him missing a penalty is down to Ronaldo isn't it.

 

[Bebestation]

I'm not even debating what you're saying, I'm literally saying your agenda is pretty pathetic.

He has made a change to the squad, i'm not even arguing that - i'm stating he's not the reason why we're struggling so much but you have that much of an agenda your mind is just locked in place with 1 thought.

Oh yeah - cos him missing a penalty is down to Ronaldo isn't it.

Because we don't even win penalties like we used to! We used to score loads


But but what happens now?

Soon as we get the ball, we cross the ball Good luck getting penalties out of that!

Ball on the floor as shown by Greenwood video, Bruno video where he got in to the box much more to score the goals.

4 goals as our main tactic. That's insane and you are protecting him.

That is love on a different level.

Gary neville love.

 

[Dec9003]

Bruno Fernandes actually ranks lower on crosses this season, going from 13th last year to 16th this year.

 

[The United]

Some says Bruno was the problem last season because he scored majority of the goal. Some even says he is still the problem this season due to his output.

Now, this season is Ronaldo. Maybe.

The trend though. If anything, it says we are not progressing as a team. Of course, if a team is doing badly like ours right now, EVERYONE is and becomes a problem.

Just a reminder to some though that Greenwood did not score for many games last season in the same period last season as well. It is not new for him. He would just be very inconsistent due to still developing. It is not like he was forced to play an Ozil role in this team.

 

[Dec9003]

Soon as we get the ball, we cross the ball Good luck getting penalties out of that!

Everton are joint top in penalties received this season, and have put three more crosses in than Manchester United.

 

[Bebestation]

Everton are joint top in penalties received this season, and have put three more crosses in than Manchester United.

Oh yeah because they play with Rashford, Sancho and Greenwood

Who get penalties by crossing the ball last year!

 

[Dec9003]

Oh yeah because they play with Rashford, Sancho and Greenwood

Who get penalties by crossing the ball last year!

Crosses this season:

Greenwood: 24
Sancho: 5
Ronaldo:4
Lingard: 3
Rashford: 2

between Rashford, Sancho and Greenwood there hasn’t been many crosses.
Despite clearly putting the most balls in, Greenwood actually ranks 55th this season in terms of the amount of balls put into the box.
Phil Foden has put 45 crosses in, 7 more than all those forwards mentioned above, and is still only ranked 18th in total number of crosses.
The narrative that our forwards are set up to cross to Ronaldo sadly isn’t backed up by the statistics. The majority of our crosses still come from Luke Shaw, who is joint 4th overall in the league in terms of crosses into the box.

 

[RepardReece]

Because we don't even win penalties like we used to! We used to score loads


But but what happens now?

Soon as we get the ball, we cross the ball Good luck getting penalties out of that!

Ball on the floor as shown by Greenwood video, Bruno video where he got in to the box much more to score the goals.

4 goals as our main tactic. That's insane and you are protecting him.

That is love on a different level.

Gary neville love.

This is delusion at its finest I literally have said 100 times I'm not even protecting him I'm just speaking for everyone else here we're fed up with your agenda.

Either way, your point with penalties, the lack of these started when Klopp whined, not Ronaldo jesus. You are literally blaming him for EVERYTHING that's not going our way and it really is quite sad to see.

Crosses this season:

Greenwood: 24
Sancho: 5
Ronaldo:4
Lingard: 3
Rashford: 2

between Rashford, Sancho and Greenwood there hasn’t been many crosses.
Despite clearly putting the most balls in, Greenwood actually ranks 55th this season in terms of the amount of balls put into the box.
Phil Foden has put 45 crosses in, 7 more than all those forwards mentioned above, and is still only ranked 18th in total number of crosses.
The narrative that our forwards are set up to cross to Ronaldo sadly isn’t backed up by the statistics. The majority of our crosses still come from Luke Shaw, who is joint 4th overall in the league in terms of crosses into the box.

He's seen this message, probably now watching another 10 videos to try and "prove" otherwise.

 

[KeanoMagicHat]

Because we don't even win penalties like we used to! We used to score loads

I think it's because Martial has been dropped, who used to actually run at the defence directly with close control. About 15 years ago, Ronaldo once did that in the same way but he doesn't really dribble any more. Martial has plenty of flaws, but he was great at winning penalties.

 

[Bebestation]

Crosses this season:

Greenwood: 24
Sancho: 5
Ronaldo:4
Lingard: 3
Rashford: 2

between Rashford, Sancho and Greenwood there hasn’t been many crosses.
Despite clearly putting the most balls in, Greenwood actually ranks 55th this season in terms of the amount of balls put into the box.
Phil Foden has put 45 crosses in, 7 more than all those forwards mentioned above, and is still only ranked 18th in total number of crosses.
The narrative that our forwards are set up to cross to Ronaldo sadly isn’t backed up by the statistics. The majority of our crosses still come from Luke Shaw, who is joint 4th overall in the league in terms of crosses into the box.

I never said our forwards are set up to cross to Ronaldo. I view our forwards as inverted forwards - if they were actually crossing then they would be doing the right thing to get the best out of Ronaldo as a Striker.

Now our forwards are crap at crossing except maybe Sancho - I'm sure stats backs this up so what does this show? That Ronaldo and our forward line don't bled very well.

Now Shaw is our main crosser in the team and when looking at stats he is crossing more than he did last year per game.

Then Bruno who is our main creator is crossing 4.3 last season and 4.27 11 in to this season.

You then showed data that shows that we have increased from last season to be a more crossing team, moving 2 team levels up. So ultimately we are crossing more and that's not because of Wan Bissaka, that's not because of Sancho, that's because of Ronaldo.



Shows the free role that Bruno fernandes used to have and how he did this when the striker like Cavani fell back (we saw this with Atalanta when Ronaldo dropped back and Bruno went forward to play the final ball back to Ronaldo but it doesn't happen anywhere near enough because Ronaldo is much more static).


Bruno fernandes last season had 28 goals and 17 assists last season. 45 goal influence in 58 games.

The half season at United and half season in Portugal stats:

27 goals and 22 assists in 50 games = 49 goal influence

This season he is still getting assists because he is our creative player but he is not scoring as many goals.

4 goals and 8 assists. 12 goal influence in 16 games.

His numbers don't look as scary when looking in context of what he used to be.

He has become more of a creator for Ronaldo and we have lost his goal scoring ability from the team.

This could even mean that he isn't even getting in to the pockets of space in the forward areas which he used to score from that would actually help assist the more inverted forwards- because we'll, Ronaldo is there instead.

 

[RepardReece]

Bruno fernandes last season had 28 goals and 17 assists last season. 45 goal influence in 58 games.

The half season at United and half season in Portugal stats:

27 goals and 22 assists in 50 games = 49 goal influence

This season he is still getting assists because he is our creative player but he is not scoring as many goals.

4 goals and 8 assists. 12 goal influence in 16 games.

His numbers don't look as scary when looking in context of what he used to be.

He has become more of a creator for Ronaldo and we have lost his goal scoring ability from the team.

This could even mean that he isn't even getting in to the pockets of space in the forward areas which he used to score from that would actually help assist the more inverted forwards- because we'll, Ronaldo is there instead.

so exactly the same stats, just without the penalties added to the goal tally

 

[Dec9003]

I never said our forwards are set up to cross to Ronaldo. I view our forwards as inverted forwards - if they were actually crossing then they would be doing the right thing to get the best out of Ronaldo as a Striker.

Now our forwards are crap at crossing except maybe Sancho - I'm sure stats backs this up so what does this show? That Ronaldo and our forward line don't bled very well.

Now Shaw is our main crosser in the team and when looking at stats he is crossing more than he did last year per game.

Then Bruno who is our main creator is crossing 4.3 last season and 4.27 11 in to this season.

You then showed data that shows that we have increased from last season to be a more crossing team, moving 2 team levels up. So ultimately we are crossing more and that's not because of Wan Bissaka, that's not because of Sancho, that's because of Ronaldo.



Shows the free role that Bruno fernandes used to have and how he did this when the striker like Cavani fell back (we saw this with Atalanta when Ronaldo dropped back and Bruno went forward to play the final ball back to Ronaldo but it doesn't happen anywhere near enough because Ronaldo is much more static).


Bruno fernandes last season had 28 goals and 17 assists last season. 45 goal influence in 58 games.

The half season at United and half season in Portugal stats:

27 goals and 22 assists in 50 games = 49 goal influence

This season he is still getting assists because he is our creative player but he is not scoring as many goals.

4 goals and 8 assists. 12 goal influence in 16 games.

His numbers don't look as scary when looking in context of what he used to be.

He has become more of a creator for Ronaldo and we have lost his goal scoring ability from the team.

This could even mean that he isn't even getting in to the pockets of space in the forward areas which he used to score from that would actually help assist the more inverted forwards- because we'll, Ronaldo is there instead.

You literally said whenever we get the ball we cross it, which statistically is false. 8 teams cross the ball more often than we do, it wouldn’t be possible to cross the ball every chance we get and have all our forwards bar one with fewer than 10 crosses this season. You’ve even just pointed out yourself that Bruno is crossing less often (only incrementally) than last season. You can’t just use YouTube videos to argue with statistics.
Also, for the Luke Shaw stat about his crossing, can we see where you got that?

 

[Dec9003]

He's seen this message, probably now watching another 10 videos to try and "prove" otherwise.

Spot on.

 

[Bebestation]

so exactly the same stats, just without the penalties added to the goal tally

You do know that Bruno Fernandes scored a hattrick against Leeds

God this is too easy.

Pogba had 7 assists as well right before your boy came nothing afterwards

Bruno Fernandes Hattrick and 1 goal after

Holy moly!!!!!!

Oh my god I'm loving this. I can literally run around you right now.



Bruno has officially turned to the creator of the team since Ronaldo entered.

I win. You and your friend lose.

 

[Idxomer]

The funny thing about this whole "debate" is that there's some truth in what he's saying but he goes way over the top to suit his agenda about Ole which makes his "arguments" quite pointless and not worth it.

 

[RepardReece]

You do know that Bruno Fernandes scored a hattrick against Leeds

God this is too easy.

Pogba had 7 assists as well right before your boy came nothing afterwards

Bruno Fernandes Hattrick and 1 goal after

Holy moly!!!!!!

Oh my god I'm loving this. I can literally run around you right now.



Bruno has officially turned to the creator of the team since Ronaldo entered.

I win. You and your friend lose.

Against Leeds yes, always a goal fest with them....

Let's be honest, Pogba would have the same stats with/without Ronaldo. Bet you'd have made that same comment about Mhkitaryan if Ronaldo came in after (5 assists early in the season, then nothing).

The funny thing about this whole "debate" is that there's some truth in what he's saying but he goes way over the top to suit his agenda about Ole which makes his "arguments" quite pointless and not worth it.

very true, don't know why I'm still bothering.

 

[Sviken]

Bebe always seems to come out of the woodwork when Ronaldo doesn't score. I don't what is his agenda, but it is getting downright pathetic. I also don't know what games he has watched this season because we barely cross.

 

[Bebestation]

Against Leeds yes, always a goal fest with them....

Let's be honest, Pogba would have the same stats with/without Ronaldo. Bet you'd have made that same comment about Mhkitaryan if Ronaldo came in after (5 assists early in the season, then nothing).



very true, don't know why I'm still bothering.

So Bruno scored 27 goals last season because of Leeds.

Yet he has only scored 1 goal in 8 since Ronaldo’s return to United and even in those 8 games that 1 goal came in Ronaldo’s debut game at United vs Newcastle meaning it was probably the least tactically influenced to get the best out of Ronaldo from Bruno and other players compared to how it is now.

Zilch ever since.

 

[Sviken]

So Bruno scored 27 goals last season because of Leeds.

Yet he has only scored 1 goal in 8 since Ronaldo’s return to United and even in those 8 games that 1 goal came in Ronaldo’s debut game at United vs Newcastle meaning it was probably the least tactically influenced to get the best out of Ronaldo from Bruno and other players compared to how it is now.

Zilch ever since.

How many of those 27 were penalties? And how many penalties we've got this season aside from the one which Bruno missed?

 

[BlueHaze]

@Bebestation I'm in awe of how much effort and energy you have been putting into this thread. You are approaching a medal of honor for your contributions. Out of 3300 post 2500 are from you. That's simply breathtaking.

 

[Idxomer]

How many of those 27 were penalties? And how many penalties we've got this season aside from the one which Bruno missed?

Bruno is on 4 goals from open play this season in the league, last season he scored 9 in total without penalties.

 

[Oranges038]

But we don't play a high tempo or high pressing game and never have apart from like 8 week under Ole.

It seems like he's getting blamed for everyone else's issues in here. Ronnies made us worse as no one else presses, ronnie has made us worse as no one else can create, ronnie has made has made us worse because as a striker he wants the ball. It's all nonsense and really lazy analysis of why we're struggling from people who i assume couldn't see the issues last season or the one prior.

There's a lot of reasons why we've been shit and Ronaldo isn't involved with many of them.

I'm not blaming him for anything. In attack he runs more and makes more sprints than a guy nearly half his age in Greenwood and more than most players in the league.

I also said there's no way they can play a high tempo high pressing game. This goes all the way back to having slow central defenders and a keeper who is stuck to his line all the time.

Off the ball as a first line of defence he offers very little. He always has, it's nothing new. He does need willing runners either side of him. Rooney & Tevez, Benzema/Bale, Chiesa/Morata/Dybala. Ths problem for him at Utd now is that he has Rashford who walks daydreaming waiting for the ball to cpme his way most of the time and Greenwood who just doesn't work hard enough out wide off the ball either.

 

[Oranges038]

Why should I listen to you

When did I get scared of you exactly telling me how I should be embarrassed?

Get. Over. Your. Self.

I said perfectly in that post that he scores clutch goals (which he has done in the CL) but ultimately he is our Plan A and our main striker now, the goals have to come from him. We are built to get the best out of Ronaldo, not to get the best out of Rashford, Greenwood and Sancho.

You want proof -

352.

Get over yourself.

Funniest thing is it's like the Ole ex team mates not saying things about Ole - the United fans don't really say it about Ronaldo - nearly all stats, other footballers, other clubs players, news articles, youtube videos, data and everything proves it with literally with CCTV, but just like Ole, the ex team mates say NO - he is perfect

That 352 was a self preservation move and was clearly designed to cover for Maguire and not Ronaldo.

 

[Bebestation]

How many of those 27 were penalties? And how many penalties we've got this season aside from the one which Bruno missed?

I also bought this up, we are getting less penalties than the season where Bruno joined us half way through the season before and last season since the way we play different.

Not all were penalties but he would score a goal in 8 games.

3 of his goals this season was a hattrick all coming from vs Leeds before Ronaldo joined.

After that he has scored 1 in 8.

Breaking down his stats this is what I found :


19/20 half season

Bruno Fernandes
4 penalty goals
4 goals
7 assists
In 14 games

20/21 full season

9 penalty goals
9 goals
11 assists
In 37 games

21/22
3 goals prior to Ronaldo joining vs Leeds
0 penalties


After Ronaldo joined he has scored 1 in 8 games
3 assists in 8 games
0 penalties


We are winning less penalties than ever before.

 

[Bebestation]

That 352 was a self preservation move and was clearly designed to cover for Maguire and not Ronaldo.

Okay that maybe Ole in your head.

Few words.

Zidane. Ronaldo lone striker. Didn't work. Benzema.

Ronaldo was younger then too.

 

[Berbasbullet]

@Bebestation I'm in awe of how much effort and energy you have been putting into this thread. You are approaching a medal of honor for your contributions. Out of 3300 post 2500 are from you. That's simply breathtaking.

When you have over double @RedRonaldo posts in this thread you know you have a problem.

 

[RedDribble]

He should be what Zlatan is for AC Milan right now, start from the bench and make an impact coming in later in the game. Make all the young guys do the intense work and Ronaldo in the bench analyze the weak link in the opponent. Then in the last 30 minutes, here comes a fresh Ronaldo ready to exploit that weak link and bag in some extra goals, would literally be the most devastating sub player in the world.

 

[Oranges038]

Okay that maybe Ole in your head.

Few words.

Zidane. Ronaldo lone striker. Didn't work. Benzema.

Ronaldo was younger then too.

100% this is why he went 352/532. The extra defender was to try and fix the leaky defence by compensating for Maguire and to not lose and try to keep his job after Liverpool. Definitely was not to compensate for Ronaldo. He's been up there on his own nearly every game and he still scores.

Otherwise, why would he not just drop the weak link back that's playing shite and play just use the 2 other guys?

 

[Bebestation]

He should be what Zlatan is for AC Milan right now, start from the bench and make an impact coming in later in the game. Make all the young guys do the intense work and Ronaldo in the bench analyze the weak link in the opponent. Then in the last 30 minutes, here comes a fresh Ronaldo ready to exploit that weak link and bag in some extra goals, would literally be the most devastating sub player in the world.

This is exactly how I see it.

I value Ronaldo being here and I love his goals but him being United's plan A and our main tactic is not right.

I'd rather we use Rashford, Greenwood, Sancho as our Plan A and use Ronaldo when we need to finish the game off with an extra goal or get him in when we are losing a match. Start him occasionally aswell and make the tactics fit that.

Playing Ronaldo as a guaranteed started 24/7 for 90 mins is just not the right level for me.

 

[steffyr2]

He should be what Zlatan is for AC Milan right now, start from the bench and make an impact coming in later in the game. Make all the young guys do the intense work and Ronaldo in the bench analyze the weak link in the opponent. Then in the last 30 minutes, here comes a fresh Ronaldo ready to exploit that weak link and bag in some extra goals, would literally be the most devastating sub player in the world.

why? Do they pay Zlatan 500K/week? (that was a rumor for Ronaldo, no idea what the real numbers are)