The problem there is that United let every manager (not just Ole) have total control, something you don’t find at other clubs.
Put it this way they are closer to being contenders than we are.
Except nobody puts 2nd place on a pedestal bud.
I don’t believe any manager since SAF has had the control or authority that he had.
Well every manager here has gotten exactly the players they wanted. Much to our detriment when the next manager comes in and wants to go in a different direction.
Of course, but right now we're analyzing last season. We've been shit this season, and Ole got sacked rightfully.
Not sure that is true to be honest.
Spon on.
The backbone of OgSs team were holdovers from Mourinho or underwhelming signings.
As above, as terrible a squad as Mourinho left OgS chose to rebuild around a large number of them.
Well you haven’t been paying attention.
Aside from Martial would you have wanted to get rid of those players you’ve listed? The players you listed are the ones we expected him to keep.
Too many drinks mate, I misread that as Ole not Ole fans. My mistake.
Funniest shit about our top management is stopping Mourinho from buying him for around 50-60mil just to buy him for 80mil next year.
I am not sure about that. They seem circling around Rangnick, waiting for his mistakes to justify why Ole failed. The problem with that is that this is Ole's team which means that if it lack character or leadership its on him.Too many drinks mate, I misread that as Ole not Ole fans. My mistake.
There are no more Ole inners, he's gone. Though there might be one or two, Ole back inners.
true. It's also fascinating how we go from extreme to another. LVG's obsession with ball possession was polar opposite to Moyes (reliance on flanks) or SAF. Mou (counter attack football) contrasted greatly with that of LVG and Ole. Rangnick's geggenpressing is the exact opposite to Ole's football who had assembled one of the laziest teams in the EPL. I mean can you see Ronaldo, Pogba, Rashy, Martial and Greenwood chasing the ball like men possessed? That means that we brought managers in knowing that they will have to dismantle the squad to succeed.
Great point other massive clubs like Bayern Coty etc a new manager comes in and if you didn’t know there was a new manager on the bench you wouldn’t really know from the way they play football. Identity is so so key for this club moving forward, we’ve chosen the godfather of the gengenpress so let’s change all aspects of our recruitment training etc to become a good pressing team. If a player doesn’t fit the system they should be let go. I like slab head but for me he doesn’t fit this system neither does Bruno Rashford Ronaldo Lingard so get rid. Bring in some new players hungry to work hard and do well and players that fit the system.
Maguire and AWB signings still infuriate me to this day, our driving motive was more with their passport than anything football related. I always say Ole is in all but the strictest sense a British manager and he was prepared to overpay for both of them for his cultural reboot which we now see was just nothing more than hot air.
And there are still Ole defenders in this thread saying 130m wasted on both of them would not get better players somwhere else. Like really ? Example: could have bought Hakimi and Ruben Dias who have more skills in their pinky toes than Maguire and WB. We could have plucked multiple defenders in any league outside PL (discounting Bayern, Madrid, PSG obviously) in the world for that fee.The only non British thing about him is his name and nationality. Also anyone remember that Longstaff crap ?
The reality is that United hasn't had an identity for a long long time. After the Glazers took over and saddled us with debt, SAF reverted to an almost scavengers mode were top players were sold and replaced with mules (Young, Valencia, Cleverley etc) whose job was to allow us to squeeze every drop of quality out of the older players. That side was cynical, methodical, defensive and quite frankly boring. In fact we used to crack jokes in here about own goal being our most prolific player.
I’ve posted many times in the past about just how devastatingly detrimental it’s been for us as a club to swap from one manager to the next without any sort of continuity from a DOF or similar.
It needs to be a balance between nurturing a manager and falling into the sunk cost fallacy or believing that time makes someone better at an activity. People put far too much weight into overly simplified ideas like "managers need time" and point at managers A, B and C and ignore the fact that there were clear trajectories for those managers and their progression that earned them the time. Klopp is a prime example where everyone with half a brain could see what he was building towards even if in the short term it was erratic and ultimately not amazing on the results front.
I wouldn't have said that was modern at all personally. Modern football at the top level is massively prescriptive. The very best teams of the past 4-5 years have all be highly cohesive units where every player knows exactly what their job is, where they should be on the pitch and where their team mates will be. There is room for flair and skill in these setups but that flair and skill is primarily used to deliver the killing blow or make a yard of space or break out of a pattern that the opposition have got the measure of.
Agree 100%.I grind my teeth when I see AWB & Maguire play.
Well, you need to give managers time to implement the system you want to play with. Nobody is going to give you 10 years for that but you have to give managers time. And if you see progress, you stick with it. I would say that we showed great deal of progress with Solskjaer until this year. But football is a short term sport nowdays so you are going to get sacked for couple of bad results. That is reality.
And by all accounts, his next signings were going to be Trippier and Declan Rice. The latter of which we were going to have to massively overpay for, and would have possibly turned into another Maguire (not in a good way) if not managed properly.
I think Rice would have been a good signing but sometimes you have to wonder whether the weight of expectations on the player and the big contract that comes with it at a relatively young age won't drag down the player. Throughoit history I think there has only been a couple of players that have embraced the World Record transfer fee - Zidane and CR7 - whist the rest rest have flattered to deceive.
Let's hope you're right about that. I wouldn't count on it though. Last pay cheques are what we've come to specialise in. I don't think anyone cares how suited players are to the system, or whether we even have a system. Big name stars and experienced, mature age players are what matter, and the more the merrier. Solksjaer couldn't sleep unless he had three mature age players for every position on the pitch it seems. You'll be waiting til the cows come home for youth players to get a realistic shot. I think Solksjaer's cheque book approach will be the norm now whomever is in charge. Mourinho and Van Gaal spent almost as much, especially on big name veterans. The fans love it, so who cares if it's the wrong thing to do.
@Ludens the Red meant it was a singular final in 3 years, not "loads of".
Just the Europa league final no?
There are 2 teams, Chelsea and City who pay through the nose for players like Ole did, so its not a lot of managers that do it. A checkbook manager then needs to follow it up with trophies, not state trophies dont matter, after he was incapable of coaching us to winning anything. So there was less progress than under VG and Mourinho. He was simply a really bad manager at Premier level. He got another Premier team relegated remember.
feck off
This.
Van Gaal didn't sign alot of old players though and when he did they were on the cheap (Valdez on free, Romero was on free). Bastian and Falcao were given huge salaries but they were on loan/bought on free. The rest were relatively young. Blind and Rojo were 24, Schneiderlin, Herrera and Darmian were 25, Di Maria was 26, Depay was 21, Martial was 19, Shaw was 18. LVG also believed in a small squad, maybe too small for his own good. He ended up relying heavily on youths one of whom was great ( Rashy) but most were absolutely dreadful (ex McNair). Mou started this madness as he spent money and gave ridiculous salaries on players who were at the wrong end of their career (Sanchez, Matic, Mkhitaryan, Ibra) and would have added more if given the opportunity (ex Perisic). Ole took it to the next level as he not only bought players who were at the wrong end of their career (Telles, Varane, Ronaldo, Heaton, Mcshane) but also gave contract extensions to players who shouldn't have been kept ( Matic, Mata, Grant etc)
Good post.
Nice reply that. It just about summarises all our sins of the last few years. You are right in saying that Van Gaal was least blameworthy of the three. Mourinho and Solksjaer just went full Muppet mode.
They're both good players though, Rice in particular. Which good English players can you sign these days without 'overpaying' for them?
Solskjaer was decent in the PL in his 2 full seasons, it was the Cups he repeatedly failed in, Jose and Louie both managed to win at least one each but then they were both much better and vastly more experienced coaches so that makes sense.
Singlehandedly?
