Haters will always hate. They will turn the hate towards Rangnick. Be sure about that. They have already done that after 3 games. What those people dont really understand is that previous managers were let down by players according to me.
Damage done by previous regime
- Thread starter RedBanker
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I think, there is quite a chance, that in few years, the Ronaldo transfer will be named next to the Maguire one...
It depends on winning trophies I think. As a player, he does his job of scoring goals and arguably he is the main reason we progressed in the CL. If we don't win trophies though, I agree that he is likely to become the scape goat for being the biggest name.
It would be interesting to see the overlap between the Ole supporters and those complaining about Rangnick already. Ole still has a lot of loyal supporters who are just waiting to be able to say "look, it wasn't Ol!"
We have a huge number of fans who can't separate results from performances which I believe is a large reason Ole was given so much slack for most of his tenure. The writing had been on the wall for Ole from fairly early on with regards to his limitations and where things were headed.
They expected a new manager bounce like we got when Ole arrived which was never likely to happen. I don't think Ole ever lost the players friendship and he didn't leave with the players hating him like Mourinho. Unfortunately we have a bunch of players who have been rewarded and praised for mediocrity and who appear to like the smell of their own ****.
After the first game where Rangnick had the team pressing I was quite excited. There was energy about us and you could see how pressing made it hard for the opposition and easier for us. Unfortunately about 30-40 minutes later our players were dead on their feet and I think that Rangnick realised right there and then that there was no point in trying to press with the current fitness levels and has stopped doing it since.
I don't know if the press will come back at some point this season or if it would require a pre-season but I really hope we can modernise our football and start to compete with the big boys again. We have a team that can do it with a few additions.
I just hope that the fans and the MSM don't turn on Rangnick like they seem to have already started to do.
Yes I agree. Trophies might be mitigating factor (even though I don't really expect any this season) but I think, his arrival might have messed up more stuff than it gave us new tools. I grow more and more frustrated with him, not really bringing much to table except for the occasional goals. I get Icardi vibes these days. Obviously goals are the only real currency but still. We managed to score quite fine without him and now quite a few players seem to have stopped trying to create instead of just looking for him. We assembled a squad with the best pure goal scorer, one of the best assist giver in Pogba and the best blend of both in Bruno. But it seems that apart from that, they don't really offer a lot - in fact when they are not on, they burden a team, that isn't gifted with natural cohesion and talent with even more workload to do...
The entire team looks terrible this season, defense to attack and not just as a collective but on an individual level. I find it very difficult to make any group or tactical conclusions based on what potential effect Ronaldo might have had. Players are just really poor on an individual level for some reason. We don't have this discussion I don't think if our defenders could defend 1 on 1 and our mids can make simple passes. I don't think any one player can be seen as responsible for all the terrible performances we've seen, let alone one that actually does what his job description requires.
If it's some sort of focus issue with players having tunnel vision on Ronaldo, then it has to be on the manager. Ole paid for it as he should have. Now it's time for the new one to fix things so we don't have to pretend that Ronaldo up top makes Maguire incapable on defending, AWB and Fred at passing or Bruno pinging balls out of play more often then not.
Bang on I've thought the same over the last few years. Whenever we looked like we were lacking energy in games I was screaming at the TV for Ole to stand up. How did he not realize that if only he stood up the players would instantly be less lethargic?
I can't find stats on it anywhere but I'm sure there's a direct correlation between a manager sitting/standing and his teams performance and workrate. I wonder how the team would get on if Ralf stood on his hands or on a step ladder on the touchline?
It would send an awesome message to the players and we'd would probably be the hardest working side in the League and maybe unstoppable.
What we need is to give managers time. Roses don't just end up being roses. They need time to grow. They need to be given water. They need to be taken care of. All that takes time. Rangnick from my point of view should stay as a manager longer then 6 months. You can see that he is a well educated football man.
I would say that he is close to vanGaal in that aspect although difference is from tactical point of view. While Rangnick want to play high press and direct football, vanGaal was more keep the possesion type of guy. Mourinho wanted to bully opposition before he lost it and Solskjaer was modern in that sense of players expressing themselfs and putting trust in them. That is why players liked him.
Regarding to Solskjaer situation it was time for club to make a change. I don't blame him. For me it is due the players commitment and desire. You can't change 15 players because of their character, but you can change one manager and hope for best. I am one of them who did see progress until this season when Solskjaer was manager. On other hand I'm surly one of few who thought that with more time VanGaal would be very good for us.
So wait are you telling me English players, from England the richest league on the planet are more expensive than players from other leagues?
Who knew?
That logic
It's brilliant isn't it?
The regime hasn't changed.
I like that post, was a good read.
Oh yes, you are absolutely right that Ronaldo shouldn't be made responsible for the shortcomings of others. What I meant was, that I personally think, that a lot of the viciousness or scrutiny comes from disappointed expectations. And expectations went way higher than they should just because of Ronaldo.
That being said, I would hope that we change the job description for our striker soon enough. The pure poachers aren't existing anymore on the biggest stages. Even Haaland or Lukaku at least bully defenders when they are not on song. I know, Ronaldo is a great player but I think it is concerning that he plays almost each minute by the age of 36. I mean, I get it, he is Ronaldo. But his time will come to an end and we shouldn't accept to be "merely" the stage he can show himself on. We have to make sure, we as a club move forward. At least by making sure the striker talents in Rashford and Greenwood get their time (at the striker position). And when the games come thick and fast, when are you resting your old warhorses when you don't do it being 3:1 up at home against a Burnley side who accepted his faith?
We were definitely playing better attacking football last season.
Thats why his transfer strategy is stupid. We could spend that money anywhere else and would have gotten more. Understand ? It's not like maguire and wan bissaka are ferdinand and ashley cole reincarnate. Both are average players from mid table clubSo wait are you telling me English players, from England the richest league on the planet are more expensive than players from other leagues?
Who knew?
It's brilliant isn't it?
By and large, spent terribly.
£135 million of Maguire and Wan-Bissaka. Are you really telling me, having access to an entire planet of possible players, that was the best we could come up with?
£135 million of Maguire and Wan-Bissaka. Are you really telling me, having access to an entire planet of possible players, that was the best we could come up with?
TBF Mourinho’s been gone over 3 years yet people still went on about Ole removing the toxicity and bringing the smiles back… which now basically appears to mean players moaning because of double training sessions and getting home in the dark.
RR has had 4 weeks, 2 of which were hit by covid and we have had a flury of games. There has not been much time for him to implement any style, he tried but the players are not fit enough and do not care enough. Yesterday game humoured me, he took football back to basics with this lot, pass the ball more directly, win second balls, control moments of possession, build attacks and he even had De Gea going more direct in the second half. He is slowly but surely getting rid of the square and sideways passes. I am not Ole bashing here but i thought the coaching and management was so poor previously, the players became to comfortable and bad performances became a norm. What i am most shocked of is how players have reacted during this change. They look uninterested, unfit and like spoilt children. Where we are today is not only because of a specific regime or bad coaching, its because these players have a pathetic attitude. Ole took the heat up until Nov, his sacking and RR appointment has shown them up for what they really are.
Would have gotten more? There's absolutely no guarantee we would have. We spent the best part of £50m on Bailly and Darmian, that money was wasted as well on two average players with the added bonus of two wages that are hard to shift off the wage bill as opposed to one. Personally I'd prefer the club to always go after top young English talent even if it costs more and ultimately doesn't work out (AWB) as opposed to punts on multiple foreign players.
But your point originally was that Solskjaer had a fetish for British players (yeah really weird for the manager of an English club to want to sign English players)
When it was pointed out that only 4 of the 13 players that Solskjaer signed were British now your point has changed to some waffle about value.
True that.
Your mind is made up it seems.If you are determined to cling to the fig leaf of us coming 2nd in a freak year be my guest.
Happy new year to you and yours.
It's not about making minds up, it's not a matter of opinion mate. It's the reason we have a league table, the only thing I am 'clinging' to if anything is facts.
You don't get every team to play each other twice home and away over a 38 game season and then just ask for opinions after to decide who was the best team, 2nd, 3rd and so on. The table doesn't lie, while we weren't a great team but we were the 2nd best of 20 over 38 games last season.
Perhaps Oles biggest mistake was trying to go more attacking this season (going by his own words in the summer), trying to work out how to ingrain Ronaldo and Sancho. Bruno’s game certainly changed. Anyway we will never know so let’s get behind RR
But Liverpool and Chelsea had terrible seasons, we were not good.
An outlier as I said.Not a true indicator.You can’t tell me you think we were better that Liverpool or Chelsea ?
Not exactly standing on his head but in the one instance LvG did get off his arse, his pretend dive vs Arsenal did inspire a brilliant energetic performance and win from a young team.For me the biggest problem is our lack of technical ability in all positions.
Your spot on, we cruised to 2nd in the end outscoring all teams apart from the champions.
But they won’t accept it because it doesn’t fit the narrative that…
A) Ole must be seen as inept
B) Every player he bought was rubbish
C) We must blame him for everything
Side note Liverpool lost defenders and their issue was not scoring goals and not an issue conceding them, but they will tell you they were decimated and incapable of competing for 2nd.
It won't be, because without signing Ronaldo this season would have been even more of a catastrophe. Cavani injured. Rashford injured then abysmal. Martial downing tools completely. Bruno in the worst form of his life. We'd be out of the CL already without signing Ronaldo, and that's just for starters.
Whereas Maguire is the most expensive CB in history, prematurely made club captain, and so undroppable for 4-5 seasons in a row where he is and will prove to be shite for the level we want to get to. Him and AWB has set out defence back 5 years.
You are still talking about opinions though mate.
All I'm saying is in the league over 38 games last season we were the 2nd best side. We've actually finished ahead of Chelsea the last 2 seasons.
Are they better than us right now, yeah. Will they still be better than us a year from now I honestly don't know as I don't think Chelsea are way ahead of us in terms of talent. Liverpool have looked much better this season than last and seem to be back to close their best form. But things can change quickly in football, this time last year we were flirting with a title challenge now we're struggling to make top 4. This time last year Liverpool and Chelsea were struggling now they're are both up there challenging.
But we were better than both of those teams over 38 games, yes?
If Chlesea and Liverpool both finish ahead of us this season which seems likely. Will it only be because we've had a terrible season?
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I was taking the piss mate and having a bit of fun. No doubt there are cases when a manager being animated on the touchline can give his players some extra motivation though.
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So we finished above them but did worse than them in the league? Really? How’s that work then.
So we are better than them despite getting a football lesson from them? How’s that work?
How’s that work then.
I didn’t say we did worse than them by the way.
Sure it’s all about opinions.
How many games did Liverpool lose to inferior opposition at Anfield? Do you really think they would have lost all those games in a full Anfield?
Chelsea won the CL we couldn’t even get out of our group, despite a great start.
When the chips were down we folded.Our 2nd place finish is a mirage in my opinion, an illusion.
Lots of that about lately.
It doesn’t matter how you interpret it personally, the true measure of how teams have done is using the course of the season and where they place when it’s finished.
All the reasons people try to use to discredit that 2nd place are a bit embarrassing, you can’t argue with the final positions. Covid and empty stadia was the same for all teams and everybody gets injuries.
They might be a better team but they didn’t do better than us over the course of the season. And we didn’t just simply fluke it, that doesn’t happen in this league and like I said it wasn’t like we’re weren’t outscoring teams.
But it’s the past so let’s just move on from it.
Yeah, but even we dropped quite a lot of points at home. Do you think we'd have dropped as many in a full OT?
CL, FA Cup and LC are knockout competitions. A lot depends on the luck of the draw as well. Chelsea's draw was ridiculously easy as well, although I'd admit we made a mess of our CL campaign after the start we had.
Our 1st 3 games were as good as pre-season because we had 0 match practice. Our last 4-5 games were dead rubbers as we had sealed 2nd and were asked to play 4 games in 8 days.
So, not sure what the point is.
Look, I admit that we had fair share of luck - Pool having injury crisis for one, but the arguments need to be consistent for us as well. We had an injury crisis as well in the season before. I doubt you were saying, "We were unlucky to finish with same number of points as season before as we had injuries" or defending the team's performances in the 1st half of that season.
I’m amazed there are people still trying to make out Ole did well…we were miles away from anything major under him. Every single manager so far has failed since SAF. Let’s hope RR bucks the trend or at least sets us up for whoever we sign in the summer.
They'll never admit otherwise. They embarrassed themselves pretending we were brilliant so they can't say otherwise now. All our issues under Ole were apparently just this season
I know what you mean, but the bolded part is speculation. Who knows if Martial might have kickstarted his carreer (I wouldn't have bet some money on it) or what would have happened to Brunos form without Ronaldo. Lets face it, he was erratic the year before as well. And he had quite a lot of shitty performances as well, but his confidence was fine - maybe because him collecting goals was good for him. I also don't think, anybody will care about a group stage we passed one way or the other if the journey ends in some unspectacular end with a loss after a great game or a win of the cup.
Plus we don't know, how Ronaldo will effect the striker purchases that might be done in the close future so while Ronaldo obviously has lots of chances to increase his stock, there is just as much potential for it to fall even lower. I think, as long as the special treatment continues, the atmosphere will stay very tense.
I think, if we want to be literal, you can't say, we were the second best team just because of a league position. The league position is based on results, not performances. Apart from that, I don't think there is much to discussing semantics about what somebody considers good or bad or the best or 2nd best. If we really were the 2nd best team of the league, what happened this season then? Nobody outside of United fanbase would call United the 2nd best team of the country based on last season. We exited the CL in the group stage, we lost to some of the worst sides of the league, we finished more or less on the same points we did the year before and we managed to not manage to score more than one goal about fecking Villareal. The "7th best team from Spain".
This isn't just on Ole. Of course not. But he played a role and he was the easiest piece to exchange.
Yeah let’s. But let’s also stop deluding ourselves.
Maybe not, but United would have also benefitted from a full Old Trafford for 19 games. Just as every other club would have done better at home with fans present.
I'll say it again United didn't uniquely benefit from empty stadiums.
Yeah they did better in the CL, we did better in the PL, Leicester did better than us both in the FA Cup.
Fair enough mate but as I said I much prefer to deal in facts and reality.
The point is obvious. Our 2nd place was a false position.We were not title contenders which is the very least we should be.We are not contenders this year either.
Anyone who thinks otherwise is deluded.