feck me mate, it took Man City, with an entire state backing them, 4 years.
Newcastle is going to take longer.
Expecting Ineos to come in and perform instant miracles is just not even slightly realistic.
Dan Ashworth - Newcastle DoF currently tending to his garden
- Thread starter Pogue Mahone
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Newcastle is going to take longer.
Expecting Ineos to come in and perform instant miracles is just not even slightly realistic.
Club of United standing and resources if run well is always within 3 year of building a team worthy of competing for biggest trophies , Even assuming Ineos doesn't hit the ground running and also accounting for some setbacks United should still be primed and ready to challenge for highest honours by 2028-29 season .
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Nobody expects Ineos to work 'instant miracles', rather judge their staff upon performance, not, like the outgoing administration, reputation and 'vibes'.
I don't know exactly why this is a controversial position, engendering hyperbolic responses.
The DM scoop regarding Mason Greenwood is ominous.
The fact a 'secret poll' amongst players could, and likely will, influence a decision about a player caught threatening his partner with rape, is Murtough/Arnold/Woodward style management.
Can only hope it is itself hyperbole.
Well, I’ve seen a lot of your posts and they seem to be exaggeratingly negative and for no real reason in my opinion.
here you’re saying “if xyz happens then it’ll be bad” previously you said that if a quick fix doesn’t happen it basically means we’re doomed for 10 years. Like…. WHAT? That’s two totally different points.
It felt like you were saying deliberately inflammatory things just to get a reaction.
some of this may be leaks to try to drive the price up. If other clubs know we 100% want rid they are definitely not paying the full asking price.
If this was the case, it certainly has proved a useful tactic. It's not the case, though, and I apologise if I seem provocative.
I've never asked for a 'quick fix', as though I think the executives can fix us right away, am just wary we are ripe for exploitation.
Ineos hiring their mates to oversee another decade of cronyism and enhanced mediocrity.
Letting players, social media hits and 'the overall mood' run the club is the modus operandi of the outgoing administration.
Hopefully, but if clubs know we are desperate to sell, they'd simply hang fire.
In fairness to the situation, the only reason we'll sell the vile scumbag is because he is a vile scumbag.
Buyers will know this and wait it out. Can't see us getting more than thirty million, but can also see us use this fact in order to surreptitiously decide to keep.
Think you need to go check a dictionary for the word hyperbole.
You’re response to any request for some patience though, there’s hyperbole.
Of course all fans would agree that if Ashworth comes in, helps bring in failing managers and flop players, he should be fired and not remain in his job for a decade a la Woodward. Not sure which “mates” Sir Jim has hired as you keep banging on about though.
Thank you for finally agreeing with me.
Absolutely everyone agrees with you when you remove your hyperbolic nonsense that comes across as trolling.
I mean, do you really think reading redcafe that people have been fine with Woodward and Murtough down the years and think they deserved the time they were granted?
Arsenal did it to Sven Mislintat and the guy before him.
If Ashworth is underperforming in his role (under clear criteria set by the board) then he should be replaced regardless of reputation.
The rebuild is bigger than one individual and there are plenty of talented individuals who can do the role. Ashworth isn’t some God
Creating an environment of excellence requires ruthlessness from senior management
This goes for players too if you are underperforming for 2 seasons why should you still he at the club.
So many scouse ‘ringers’ and so called Man United fan plants in this forum. We need another cull.
That isn’t the argument though, absolutely no-one think Ashwood should get 5-6 years regardless.
People do think he’ll likely need at least a couple of years in the job to really see his changes begin to take effect. Murtough has for example had 3 years now and it’s understandable why he’s this season started facing harsh criticism.
Surely Newcastle just waiting to announce Mitchell then we’ll get our man.
If its clear he isn’t up to it after a single season he should be gone after it. You don’t need to see changes begin to take effect. Those on the board should be able to evaluate his individual performance and have a clear criteria for it before he is even hired. Thats why again as an example Mislintat was gone after a year at Arsenal.
I think Ashworth will do a good job, but the idea you have to wait to see results on the pitch etc to evaluate his performance at senior management level is not true.
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What would make it clear after a year?
I agree with you when I stop misinterpreting you as a hyperbolic troll.
Fixed.
Yep.
However, we could be about to accept a player who threatens women with rape. The precedent it could set, on and off the field, is incredibly dangerous and not at all worth the effort.
I'll accept it could be a ruse to drive up the asking price but if Greenwood is playing for us next season, for any reason, it'll be a ruinous beginning for Ineos and a dire warning of things to come.
I'd imagine Ashworth will have designs prior to engaging and will hopefully done his homework before signing, but I don't agree a single
season should be his allowance.
Two yes, but not one.
In that time, we need to see United competing on all fronts, the title race included, and with a suitable, adaptable playing style.
I don't understand this thread. He's not even in the job and people seem to be wanting to start the clock on him. He's an important part of the rebuild. will help identify talent and provide continuity. Realistically its 2-3 years before we can assess any of these new appointments, What is clear is that INEOS are appointing seasoned professionals, unlike the amateur hour under the Glazers. Have some patiences
Whatever his KPI are for his job as set by the board
I would expect the board to set criteria for his performance. Most of which will be off the pitch if you know anything about his actual job.
You do not just let someone take 2/3 years before evaluating their performance that is not a high performance environment.
They will quite obviously have KPIs and milestones to meet year one.
I hope everyone also realises that Ashworth was not responsible for signings at any of his previous clubs he was involved in the negotiations though but he didn’t pick players. His role has been to coordinate the different football functions and get involved in negotiations. He isn’t a DOF in the sense most think of. That role/job title itself is very ambiguous.
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That sounds absolutely insane to me. You barely have your foot in the door for one season.
A year in a job without performance evaluation in a role which is about performance management and management of different management functions in the club. You think that isn’t insane…
Maybe you should realise his performance of his role goes far beyond what happens on the pitch
You would have him in the job for a year without having setup any processes or structures that moves as forward basically if he sat on his ass for a year and did nothing you would be ok with it because.. well… one season
Oh feck sake, are we being that pedantic? As fans we can’t expect to see anything within a season that’s the point.
Of course, the people in control of the club should be evaluating his performance far beyond anything we fans can see. He can’t be coming in every week fecking up stuff and still remaining in his job but I thought that was pretty obvious.
What will those be?
Likely stuff our fans have zero knowledge of.
Cassidy has gone off on a weird one here, as though we fans are arguing he should be allowed three years even if he fecks up multiple aspects of his job on the reg or just doesn’t bother showing up for work.
Of course behind the scenes his bosses will be evaluating him and the job he is doing, but the argument is that as fans, we can’t expect to be seeing the results of his labour within such a short period of time. That’s just unrealistic.
We are arguing that he could be doing an incredible job behind-the-scenes that everyone is delighted with, yet fans after 1.5 years could be calling for his head because they’ve been expecting to see that all of these changes have an immediate effect.
You’re comparing apples to oranges when trying to compare the Mislintat role. Mislintat wasn’t Arsenal’s technical / sporting director, he was head of recruitment. He actually left because he was looked over for the Technical Director role when Edu got it, and because Raul Sanllehi rather than using a data and systematic approach to transfers through Mislintat and the team, was more recruiting himself through agents.
My point if you read my post was not about the fans. The fans do not appoint or sack him
No clock was started. And the club can obviously assess performance before fans can
I simply stated an obvious point that I expect the club to evaluate his performance and not after 2/3 years. No weird tangent about it and in my post I specifically said I expect this from the board. I made zero arguments about fans assessments because they are irrelavent.
It’s so obvious though it threw a few people off, and you responded to a post that was calling for patience from fans, not from the board.
I don’t personally think it needs to be said that his superiors will/should sack him if they see he’s doing a poor job, they don’t need two or three years to see behind the scenes that he’s not very good.
Its also the point the person you was responding to was making.
Nar it wasn’t Cas…
The entire debate was based on posters responding to say “he’s a DoF, it’s extremely unlikely you’ll be able to see quick results on field even if he’s doing a great job behind the scenes”
A DoF doesn’t directly affect the results, that’s on the coach to make good with the tools the DoF structure gives him
Fair enough I got that wrong. I must have made an assumption based on the fact I couldn’t fathom some one making the argument about on field results within year 1
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No worries, I get your main point of course.
However, Brontelicious gave the DoF a scope of about two years to provide these results, factoring in what Ashworth will bring with him.
That's not quite the 'quick, instantaneous results' their detractors have eased into the debate.
However, you've since agreed Ashworth's reign ought to be performance regulated, so we're in agreement, albeit belatedly.
Which means the 'managerial merry go round' can continue apace whilst failing DoF, and other executives, can pocket massive wages as we falter.
Same sorry state as Woodward's reign.
If we are sure that we have the right person in place we have to trust them. You cannot be sacking / replacing a DoF every couple of years, their job is long term. Having a revolving door for a DoF is going to set the club back further than replacing an underperforming coach
The only way one can be sure is by results. Of course you may put into context mitigating factors (injuries et al), but nobody should be 'trusted' willy nilly.
The trust has to be earned.
Ratcliffe and the Ineos board 'trust' Ashworth, and good luck to them, but we have no reason to. We have no reason, as yet, to trust Ineos, either.
If there's any truth in their desire for Southgate, well, expect another decade of pain.
Folks like you are the reason the tabloids still exist
Every single day you quote a tabloid rumour and feel a sense of doom & dread about it.