[Ollie Derbyshire]

We need to sell him before he turns into another average player we hang onto for far too long, we have plenty of players better than he is in his position and i‘d rather give Amad and Elanga his minutes who both look a better fit for us.

The most irritating thing about him for me is he doesn’t even look that fast, he never seems to make it to the ball before the defender, hardly ever nicks it past them and runs on with it, always gets tackled.

 

[Adam-Utd]

I mean, his body strength couldn't be worse than Iniesta or Messi, right? Those latter two weren't built like Maradona, but they're smart on shielding the ball. Any touch on them is a foul.

what? Messi is very strong nobody can knock him over. it’s nothing to do with shielding, he just can’t stand up whenever somebody leans into him.

Either he has very poor balance, or little leg or core strength.

Pretty much every time he tries to go run passed somebody they block his path and he falls over like a rag doll.

 

[acolyte]

Happens with so many players.

There's this weird downturn in standards at Utd with these fanboys where if you have a good game then that means you get to have the next few weeks off. And if you say he played poorly today they go yeah but he was great in that game 4 weeks ago so leave him alone.

It's weird.

The problem too is that the "great" games he has that everyone uses to defend him are merely average games for others. He's graded on a completely different curve to Rashford for example. All he has to do is not lose the ball constantly and put in a few aimless crosses to a box that only has opposition players in it. He hasn't actually had a great game since his first month or so in United shirt.

 

[laughtersassassin]

Seasons not even started and the pitchforks are already out and sharpened. Christ.

It's hardly pitchforks to think we should sell him while he has value.

 

[Sylar]

James had 900 PL minutes last season and a good chunk of that was when he displaced a fit Greenwood after his poor first half of the season. With Greenwood a year older and looking much more consistent, Sancho coming in and Elanga looking like the real deal, there's a good chance we won't need him if we have roughly the same injury situation. (similarly to the nonuse of Lingard before his West Ham loan)

If Ole does trust a kid with his minutes (which he eluded to with Elanga), it's the end of James at United. Could've been a good squad option if he was insanely clinical, but mostly just lacks the technical ability to play for Man United. He's the Fellaini of wingers. He's 24 in 3 months btw, "young" and "new" just stop applying after 2 seasons. He's had his chances. We took a punt and we missed, no harm done. Good luck elsewhere.

So im confused at what youre saying or even arguing now as it seems, as it seems you agree with me except for the 'whats the point in a loan'
You practically said, you see no point in a loan, and as I said, a loan can be for a number of reasons, if done right. And yes, that could involve getting a buyer for him if Ole sees no plans for him based on what hes seen after two seasons because right now, were not just going to cut him, and nobody is going to buy at good value from us.

 

[VanDeBank]

So im confused at what youre saying or even arguing now as it seems, as it seems you agree with me except for the 'whats the point in a loan'
You practically said, you see no point in a loan, and as I said, a loan can be for a number of reasons, if done right. And yes, that could involve getting a buyer for him if Ole sees no plans for him based on what hes seen after two seasons because right now, were not just going to cut him, and nobody is going to buy at good value from us.

He's shit and we need to sell him.

The only point of a loan would be to put him in the shopping window if no one offered ~12-15 million, which is highly unlikely. I'd be very surprised if we can't sell him for 15 million and that do would be good enough value for me.

We can cut him just fine. We haven't sold anybody yet, we've bought Sancho and we have Elanga and Amad coming up. If he was a fringe player last season than he has no purpose this season.

Fans of both James and Lingard keep throwing the example of Januzaj in my face whenever I suggest giving young players some of James' minutes, but I'd play 13/14 Januzaj over James in a heartbeat. 13/14 Januzaj was actually more productive than either James or Lingard in a shittier team to boot.

Those same people could just as well have said 15/16 Rashford or 18/19 Greenwood, except, you know, less convenient.

Ffs, we have 6 reliable options out wide with Rashford, Greenwood, Sancho, Martial, Pogba and Mata. If we won't comfortable rely on our kids as as 7th choice, we're no different than City or Chelsea.

 

[Rozay]

Temple Run James.

 

[KennyBurner]

He had the most attacking runs yesterday and did absolutely nothing with it. Sancho there and we see more clear cut chances. The problem is he takes so many minutes away from our academy players.

 

[Borys]

Is he supposed to be ball carrier for us? I'm not sure he's so poor as people suggest but without speed he's pretty much useless in our squad, and he doesn't seem super fast these days.

 

[El Zoido]

He’s rubbish, not sure he even has that much merit as a squad player. He’s probably on one of the lowest salaries of the entire first team squad, that’s about the only up side to keeping him.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Hes one of those we should sell but hold to for an illogically long period.

 

[Ace of Spades]

Just not good enough, sell him and get some money.

 

[jesperjaap]

Even with Rashford out recovering from surgery, surely he SHOULD be possibly the most obvious sale?

The only possible justification for keeping him in my book is if we sell players such as Martial and Lingard. As then we only have Cavani as a recognised striker with Greenwood as back up and an injured Cavani means Greenwood up front.

As things stand currently though on the left....Rashford, Sancho, Amad, Elanga, Mata, Lingard, Hannibal are all players would do as well if not a lot better than James for me already starting this season.

He isnt even a valuable squad player now and he IS a player that other clubs such as Leeds have held interest in and he does still hold value I expect of £15-25m

 

[big rons sovereign]

It's hardly pitchforks to think we should sell him while he has value.

Course it is. That's exactly what this thread is.

 

[pascell]

Seasons not even started and the pitchforks are already out and sharpened. Christ.

It's just common sense that he should be sold, he's not good enough for United and he has value which can go towards improving our midfield.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

Whoever recommended we sign him is a criminal. Nowhere near the technical ability to play at this level.

I see what you did there.

 

[Sylar]

He's shit and we need to sell him.

The only point of a loan would be to put him in the shopping window if no one offered ~12-15 million, which is highly unlikely. I'd be very surprised if we can't sell him for 15 million and that do would be good enough value for me.

Hopefully you can see what the whole issue is behind the statement and argument as we are discussing two different things here.
Youre fantasy team making based on what you want.

Im arguing hypotheticals based on what Ole and the club possibly want, based on whats been seen in training, discussions, etc.

Its two completely different conversations.

 

[R'hllor]

We need to offer him a new contract before anything.

 

[Adam-Utd]

Course it is. That's exactly what this thread is.

People think he isn't good enough and want him sold, what's the issue?

Things aren't going to be any different than they have been the last 2 seasons.

 

[laughtersassassin]

Course it is. That's exactly what this thread is.

So we aren't allowed think that a player is simply not good enough?

If all our players are so great why aren't we?

 

[Adisa]

I see what you did there.

 

[Valencia's Left Foot]

Daniel James is a useful player in the right circumstance, he’s totally worth the price we paid for him imo. Great at pressing and solid on the counter.

 

[Mickson]

Daniel James is a useful player in the right circumstance, he’s totally worth the price we paid for him imo. Great at pressing and solid on the counter.

I can see him being a useful player in a clear philosophy. I can see Conte loving him. I can see Bielsa loving him. But Ole doesn't work that way. Ole gives players the freedom to roam, and James isn't talented enough to pull that off. He needs guidance.

 

[big rons sovereign]

So we aren't allowed think that a player is simply not good enough?

If all our players are so great why aren't we?

Grow up. Nobody's saying you can't do anything.
I'm just making a point.
I fully expect the majority of posters in this thread to be in the ole out thread that's started at half time against Leeds next week.

 

[laughtersassassin]

Grow up. Nobody's saying you can't do anything.
I'm just making a point.
I fully expect the majority of posters in this thread to be in the ole out thread that's started at half time against Leeds next week.

Your points make no sense and have no relation to one another. You're just here to have an argument.

Have a nice day.

 

[big rons sovereign]

Your points make no sense and have no relation to one another. You're just here to have an argument.

Have a nice day.

Christ almighty.
I'll see you next week in the ole out thread.

 

[laughtersassassin]

Christ almighty.
I'll see you next week in the ole out thread.

Do tell what Dan James has to do with the Ole out thread?

Your in a form to discuss things to do with Manchester United.

People are discussing what they think of James and yet you have a problem with that and think that makes them all Ole Outers.

Makes proper sense that.

 

[SAFMUTD]

We won't see him much when Rashford returns. Another deadwood player in the making, hopefully one on the youngsters takes him place in the pecking order.

I like the lads tenacity but the quality simply ain't there.

 

[VanDeBank]

Hopefully you can see what the whole issue is behind the statement and argument as we are discussing two different things here.
Youre fantasy team making based on what you want.

Im arguing hypotheticals based on what Ole and the club possibly want, based on whats been seen in training, discussions, etc.

Its two completely different conversations.

Sure, in the hypothetical scenario Ole rates him but thinks he needs more playing time, he'll go on loan without the purpose of being put in the shopping window.

But the more likely scenarios are:

1. He sees he's not good enough, in which case he wants to sell him or put him in the shopping window
2. He wants him as a squad options to make up the numbers because he can do a job better than a kid

And isn't everyone saying we should sell him playing fantasy manager?

right now, were not just going to cut him, and nobody is going to buy at good value from us.

Why wouldn't we "not just cut him" and what is "buying at good value from us" to you?
You don't think we have too many wingers? Can you give a price you would be happy with?

 

[laughtersassassin]

Sure, in the hypothetical scenario Ole rates him but thinks he needs more playing time, he'll go on loan without the purpose of being put in the shopping window.

But the more likely scenarios are:

1. He sees he's not good enough, in which case he wants to sell him or put him in the shopping window
2. He wants him as a squad options to make up the numbers because he can do a job better than a kid

And isn't everyone saying we should sell him playing fantasy manager?



Why wouldn't we "not just cut him" and what is "buying at good value from us" to you?
You don't think we have too many wingers? Can you give a price you would be happy with?

The thing is can he do a better job than Amad? I highly doubt it.

 

[edcunited1878]

Dan is a squad player. He's a full international and as far as we can objectively tell, he's a very grounded professional and has a strong mentality.

He's a grafter and character I'd love on my team. He knows exactly where he aligns with the squad. Doesn't have high wages at the club and always brings max effort to the side whenever he plays.

Don't like the lack of respect he gets on here. You need a variety of players and characters in a big squad like United. He's a fine squad player.

 

[GlasgowCeltic]

Wonder how far down the league you’d have to go to find a player Redcafe wouldn’t consider a potential “fine squad player”

 

[pratyush_utd]

The thing is can he do a better job than Amad? I highly doubt it.

And Amad has higher potential, so giving him more time will be beneficial to us in long term.

 

[El Jefe]

What's funny about James not being good enough is so many people on the Caf called it in his first season but were basically accused of being bad fans and not trusting his development. Sometimes it's really black and white from early on that a player isn't good enough for us.

Decent lad but he's not built for this level of football.

 

[VP89]

Temple Run James.

so accurate

 

[Winrar]

Would rather see his minutes given to someone with more potential like Amad, Elanga, and Hannibal.

We took a punt and didn't work out so we should get rid. Happens to all clubs.

 

[red_de_pologne]

At least he’s at normal wages so should be easy to sell him

 

[Gandalf]

Dan is a squad player. He's a full international and as far as we can objectively tell, he's a very grounded professional and has a strong mentality.

He's a grafter and character I'd love on my team. He knows exactly where he aligns with the squad. Doesn't have high wages at the club and always brings max effort to the side whenever he plays.

Don't like the lack of respect he gets on here. You need a variety of players and characters in a big squad like United. He's a fine squad player.

I agree with all of this. Specifically for this season I think the younger lads would only be getting cameos from the bench which may not be beneficial in their development as opposed to going on loan and starting 25+ games at a decent level. Dan is good insurance until Rashford is back and being on the bench doesn't hurt his development nor seem to upset him personally as he understands his role. I believe the thinking is to sell him next summer, if Elanga and Pellistri kick on out on loan then they will take his place and in the meanwhile there is a good chance that with a season of full stadiums the smaller clubs will be ready to spend again as it is pretty clear that right now they are trying to do things on the cheap.

 

[Idxomer]

James hasn't improved tactically, his decision-making remains awful and his passing isn't any better.

He pretty much still plays like a kid after two seasons with the team. We're not losing experience or anything like that if his minutes are given to some of our young players with high potential.

 

[Sylar]

Sure, in the hypothetical scenario Ole rates him but thinks he needs more playing time, he'll go on loan without the purpose of being put in the shopping window.

But the more likely scenarios are:

1. He sees he's not good enough, in which case he wants to sell him or put him in the shopping window
2. He wants him as a squad options to make up the numbers because he can do a job better than a kid

And isn't everyone saying we should sell him playing fantasy manager?



Why wouldn't we "not just cut him" and what is "buying at good value from us" to you?
You don't think we have too many wingers? Can you give a price you would be happy with?

Again, I'm having this discussion on what would be realistic

If not id say sure let's sell him, cut Jones, buy a DM and let's buy haaland now rather than wait next season.

However I'm speaking in terms of what we know of this club and the history and on Ole
I don't think James should be a starter and I think we should have loaned him last season as he showed certain glimpses here and there.

I think Sanchez is the only one we've actually cut
I really dont see Manchester United buying a 21 year old then selling him for 20m two seasons later.

If you're still asking why we wouldn't just cut him I don't know what else to say to that