Till the ball went in, I felt as if he was going to slip and do a Torres.
Danny Welbeck | Arsenal player
- Thread starter KiD MoYeS
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
- Status
Why should the player have to restrain himself after the high of scoring? If he wants to, fine, but it's hardly some sort of obligation or sign of disrespect if he doesn't.
It knocked us out the F.A. Cup. How can that not bother you?
if you think those area are more demanding issue than our attack. You can make a thread and we can ask United fan which area of our field is more problematic and get a consensus if you want.It's nothing to do with being gutted to score. The complete opposite if anything. It's about controlling such overwhelming emotions after scoring, which signifies how strongly that player feels about not wanting to offend the fans that once supported him.
I took it as a disrespectful act at the time and it was clear that plenty of united fans sat near to me weren't happy about it either. It was also clear the Arsenal fans loved it as they spent the rest of the game chanting 'he left cus you're shit' and 'Danny Welbeck, he's one of our own'.
See my post above. But I fundamentally disagree with the bolded part! I guess it's just a difference of opinions with no right or wrong answer, but I know how I feel about it.
Yeah, lets build a team from top to bottom.
Suppose it is a disagreement of opinions, but I just really don't understand why someone celebrating a goal for their club is disrespectful? It really, really isn't, provided he doesn't rub it in our faces.
The reaction of the Arsenal fans is irrelevent, as they'd have taken the piss regardless.
Why should he control his emotions? What kind of weirdo is "offended" by someone who plays for a different club being pleased to score a goal? Are we really that precious?
Surely the goal itself was hurtful enough that the celebration made no difference?
The bottom is not in a dire situation than our attack. Jones, Smalling and Rojo are good enough for United, while in the wide area, Rafael and Shaw are great aswell. De Gea is the standout of our defense. We only need an experience center back if necessary, but I still have faith in those three center back. We might also do with a right back to compete with Rafael.
If we'd somehow sold a defender last summer who would improve our options in defence as much as Welbeck would improve our options in attack then heads would really have to roll.
Anyone who gets offended by a offended by a footballer normally celebrating a goal for the team they play for, needs to have a quiet word with themselves.
But more often than not, it's just an insincere plea to get the fans off your back. And I honestly feel no different if a player doesn't celebrate scoring against us; if anything I feel patronized.
It's one thing if he does an Adebayor-style celebration (which if I'm honest, I actually really enjoyed,) but quite another to celebrate scoring the go-ahead goal in an important cup-tie.
This is where we disagree as I view the celebration as doing exactly that!
Speaking of the goal itself, I wouldn't have been bothered if it'd been a screamer. I'd have understood the euphoria completely taking over in that case. The fact it was such a shitty goal that was handed to him on a plate makes it worse for me.
And to answer your question, he should control his emotions as a sign of respect to his old loyal fans. That's meant to be the whole reason players don't celebrate against their old clubs, despite your cynical opinions on that matter. Most players don't celebrate against their former clubs as a sign of respect, so it only follows that I view it as a sign of disrespect to ignore this and do the opposite.
I was speaking to an Arsenal fan about this after the game and he made the same Adebayor point, and to be honest I enjoyed it too as it didn't concern me!
I'm clearly a little precious about this topic, but I'm surprised I seem to be in the minority on here with this opinion. There were a lot of people hurling abuse Welbeck's way when he celebrated and plenty booing when he got subbed. The caf posters are clearly much more laid back and forgiving
One of the reasons we can't seem to create anything is because the attackers don't have much of the ball. Our most common pass combinations involve everyone one of our defenders. That tells me our defenders are either incapable of passing forward or our midfielders aren't helping out the defenders by making themselves available for a pass. If you think a good forward is going to solve our issue of being incapable of playing actual football, then, by all means, believe so; however, I just don't agree with it.
Welbeck was here last year and we were definitely worse going forward than we are this year. He's scored 8 goals in 20 odd games, that's not much better than our current options.
With regards to selling defenders, having either one of Evra, Rio, or Vidic would have, at the very least, provided our defense with some, much needed, experience.
What? A player celebrating a goal doesn't rub it in our faces, not in the slightest.
But he wasn't. He asked to leave on previous occasions - he wanted to leave. I don't know how many times this needs to be said so I'll try it again - he asked to leave on previous occasions. By all means argue that you like the lad and that he's a saint, but can we please stop the rewriting of history. Please.
Respect to a club that discarded him as not being good enough? Seriously?
'Old loyal fans ' is a paradox in itself. Had he committed a foul, would the fans not boo him due to respect?
And is this respect expected for how long? Forever or do you have a time frame before he can celebrate with his team?
Stop being sensitive. It hurts, but it was our decision to sell him to a rival.
Last season we played all our best attacking football when Welbeck played up front. Same in pre-season. The shite we've endured this season was predictable enough from watching Van Persie lumber around last season. The only difference being the addition of a similarly immobile striker in Falcao.
Kind of agree about needing more nous in the defence but they were all pants under Moyes and have been just as bad at their new clubs so we're better off rid of all three of them. Mind you, I'm a massive Evra fan so maybe he'd have offered something if he wasn't relied upon to play a stupid amount of games each season.
More in the context that it was he who scored compared to another arsenal player. He was forced out, good luck to him. We don't need these mediocre players if we're going to become the best football team in the world. We're already carrying more then enough dead wood as it is.
Fair enough
Ok, that is your opinion if you believe our defense is disrupting our attacking play. If you want our defenders to have Messi creative skills that is ok with me aswell. The defenders job in influencing our attack is basic and consist of passing it to our midfielders and letting them conduct our style of play. If under pressure, we still have competent defenders like Rojo, McNair and even at times Jones who can releave that pressure and find the open midfield player.
When you have attackers who are static, do not press or work hard and the ball bounce off them like rubber, then common sense says that this factor effect our style of play moreso than our defenders who do not have the creative ability of Messi.
Maybe you're right, we looked decent with Welbeck linking up with others; however, he just wasn't good enough to play as a forward as his finishing was atrocious/bad/not good (?). I don't think he's made a huge difference to Arsenal's attacking play as they've only scored a few more goals than us, and we've been absolutely terrible going forward.
We clearly lack a vocal leader at the back. Going back to the first goal we conceded yesterday, someone should have been screaming to Valencia to get back into position or to Smalling to cover. As bad as the aforementioned trio were last year, our defense this year has hardly been better; if anything, De Gea's papering over the cracks.
In fairness a lot of players looked good in preseason, not just because of Welbecks presence, take Darren Fletcher for one example, who looked a decent squad player in all pre-season games, full of confidence and high % passing success in preseason, then reverted to type as soon as the actual blood and guts of the season began, looking as if he was playing in slow motion almost.
Theres no question Welbecks donkey work and general build up play could be a benefit to us now, considering how poor both RvP & Falcao have been in his place, but its unfair to point to preseason as an example of how our game would look should we have kept hold of him.
Yesterday, we played a very mobile forward line of Young - Rooney - di Maria, yet we created no more than Arsenal and no more than in the previous 20 games, and we had the lions share of the possession. Having this ultimate forward pressing and hunting is all well and good, but what on earth will he do when the defenders and the DM spend most of time passing the ball between themselves?
I didn't ask for our defenders to develop the "creative skills of Messi", I simply want them to pass the ball quicker, be more forward thinking, and stop passing back and sideways. Look at the second goal we conceded, Jones could have initiated an attack by heading the ball forwards; instead, he chests it sideways to Valencia... who passed (failed) it back to De Gea.
Yeah, the lack of leaders at the back is killing us. They don't ever seem to talk to each other. Evans is the only vocal one amongst them but his individual form's been so poor his overall contribution has been terrible regardless. Although he's definitely improved in recent weeks and we looked to be getting a bit more solid, only to get a 6 game ban right before our biggest game so far. For spitting.
This season's had everything. In a bad way. So it was inevitable that Welbeck would knock us out of the cup really.
At least, we're still in the race for fourth. Although, it might not last very long.
Our number 10 was Fellaini, then we took out herrera and put in two holding midfielder.
Are people still whinging about his realtively low key celebration? You know, for a sub-culture that often prides itself on irreverant masculine banter and the harmless nature of it's own offence causing, football fans dont half come across as some of the most emotionally sensitive people on the planet at times.
There's probably a good Freudian explanation for that. ...Probably.
There's probably a good Freudian explanation for that. ...Probably.
I blame nespresso.
I have heard there's insufficient availability of their capsules in Manchester. This would clearly be very stressful.
I don't see a problem in his celebration. Its not like he raised a middle finger to fans or did an Adebayor, the guy simple celebrated a goal with his teammates. People should not be having fits over such a non-issue.
People saying 'how could he not celebrate a winning goal in a big game?'
See Ronaldo's celebration, or lack thereof, against us with a winner in the CL QF in 2013.
That's how you show respect and class to a club and the fans who developed you into a player who now earns millions every year. He's more than entitled to celebrate but he's burnt the bridge now for a lot of United fans who were otherwise sympathetic to the manner in which he left the club.
I know RVP celebrated against Arse when he scored in his debut season but they turned their backs on him when he left and he got a fair bit of stick. Danny got an amazing reception and was wished well when he left and then celebrates. Dead to me.
See Ronaldo's celebration, or lack thereof, against us with a winner in the CL QF in 2013.
That's how you show respect and class to a club and the fans who developed you into a player who now earns millions every year. He's more than entitled to celebrate but he's burnt the bridge now for a lot of United fans who were otherwise sympathetic to the manner in which he left the club.
I know RVP celebrated against Arse when he scored in his debut season but they turned their backs on him when he left and he got a fair bit of stick. Danny got an amazing reception and was wished well when he left and then celebrates. Dead to me.
Oh dear. Ronaldo only did it to market himself. Can't believe how naive some people actually are. Respect and class? He called himself a slave...
Bollocks. LVG called him a sub who didn't score enough.
Your stance is typical age of entitlement bollocks. Get over yourself.
Still an average player
He asked to leave twice before LVG came.
His point is it could have been anyone who scored that goal. I agree that we're better off rid. He was just never that good.
- Status