Wrong. Just because a player has experience playing at the highest level doesnt mean a player has any of the skills or knowledge needed to teach. Teaching is entirely different to playing.
Darren Fletcher - First team coach
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Who next? Fergie?
I think you are now changing your stance. Your original post implied his illustrious career was good enough to become a good coach automatically. And you gave an unsound analogy about a surgeon. Everyone has been pointing out that one (good player) does not automatically translate to the other (good coach).
Yes.
Official motivational speaker.
Could not disagree more that learning to pass on knowledge is the hardest part... but maybe in your case, you had less professional experience to fall back on and it didn’t come as naturally to you.
It makes total sense because it's a different job with a different perspective that requires specific skills. And it makes perfect sense to question whether someone has the personality to coach especially when you don't know them, it's because you don't know them that you can't have certitudes and have questions.
So now it is down to personal digs.
Good news this.
No it didn’t. Read my original post again. The post is about how I find it bizarre that people were questioning his ability to coach. I never said he would automatically be a good coach, although depends how you measure that... I do genuinely believe he will be a good coach though.
Love it. Let's hope he does well.
Big fan of Fletcher so am very happy he is working with the senior team going forwards. As someone who worked hard to make the most of his talents and has dealt with a difficult illness, I hope he can bring his strong mentality and football knowledge to the side and be a positive figure in the set up.
I had played football for the best part of 35 years when I first took up coaching. I also played to a reasonable level where I live, playing in my countries top division but admittedly it was only semi pro.
The ability to pass on knowledge is a skill that has to be learned, its the precise reason why teachers have to study to do their job and the higher up the teaching profession teachers work the higher the level of teaching qualification is required. You are just horribly wrong, the ability to teach is the hardest part, not the knowledge of the game.
People are questioning it because he has not been proved to be a successful coach anywhere. Which is a fair question.
You said that question need not be asked, because of his "illustrious playing career", which is a completely different thing.
He has a proven pedigree as a player, he was one of my favourite players and I like this appointment. However he does not yet have a pedigree as a coach and there is nothing wrong with questioning his ability to coach because we dont know how good he is at the art of coaching. Personally I think he will become a good coach because he appears to be someone who always tries to learn. But again those questioning his ability to coach afe only questioning his skill set relative to coaching.
Most teachers who teach adults vocational subjects in this country actually start teaching before they have completed any teaching qualification. Often they will undertake a teacher training qualification which is usually 1-2 years of part-time training (a day or half day a week).
You think that training is harder than learning all of the subject knowledge they have gained through years of experience and in many cases, full-time qualifications that lasted years longer. I massively disagree. For many people the teaching qualifications are actually no higher in academic level than the qualifications they already have.
This puts a smile on my face tbh without knowing how good he is as a coach. He was one of my favorite United players of that generation.
Yes I think that learning how to teach was harder than all of the knowledge of the game I learned during 35 years of playing. It was a completely new skill set that I had to learn from scratch. I had to learn a large number of bad habits. Teaching is a skilled profession and higher education teachers spend years learning their profession. Again, go look up Guided Discovery and follow the path from there. Spend some time heading down that path not some cursory glance. You are demonstrating a complete lack of understanding of the difference in the process of teaching and the process of playing
BTW are you aware Keiran McKenna never played professionally?
It’s difficult for me to comment about your personal experience... I know many teachers who would disagree. And I’ve known many from the moment they started training all the way to when they are classed as fully qualified, in a wide variety of vocations. Obviously you never stop learning and the profession continually evolves. I take on board what you are saying about your own experience and it has given me some food for thought.
Yes? I don’t think I’ve ever claimed it was a pre-requisite although I’ve no doubt it helps...
Great news and I think he'll be a fantastic addition. I can't see him here for the long term though as I think he'll have managerial ambitions of his own.
I really don't see Rio as the coaching type. Much more suited to punditry imo.
Ultimately I really hope Fletcher over time grows into a fantastic coach, to have got this job he will have had to have completed a number of coaching courses. He will be in a relatively junior role within the coaching staff but i have no doubt he will be there on merit.
A bit of a strange discussion in my view. Surely it's bleedin' obvious that you don't necessarily become a great coach just because you were a great player. Nearly all great coaches and managers are much, much better coaches and managers than they were players. And nearly all great players who try their hand at coaching do that much less well than they did as players. Some of the worst managers you've ever seen were great players. Graeme Souness, for example.
The brain surgeon analogy is pointless - what he'd teach is procedure and technique, which is the same for anyone. Football is not like that - Darren Fletcher can't teach young players to be Darren Fletcher, and what a player needs in order to develop is different from player to player. And that's just individual player development, there's lots of other aspects to coaching too which requires an understanding of the game you may or may not have picked up as a player.
Not saying Darren Fletcher won't do well and I hope he does, but I don't think his record as a player tells us a great deal about that.
Good move. We've had a few different coaching teams in since Sir Alex so it's nice that we are building our own set up now of coaches and staff which are attached to the club and will help bring stability.
Yeah, it’s hard to judge... I like what I see of him when he does his punditry in terms of his analysis and communication skills. He’s obviously got determination by the bucket load to come back from his illness to play again. Time will tell but I like the appointment.
I like this move, he has been on the outside looking in, clearly he has been having conversations with the club for a while now.
We have a good setup of coaches, people say about coaching and what not, but for me its about getting the attitude right.
I would like to see a defensive coach in there but what I do find funny is people who are Ole out say we have too many young coaches not enough experience, when Phelan is named, they say he could't get a job anywhere else.....
Yet they wanted Poch who was jobless for a year.
We have a good setup of coaches, people say about coaching and what not, but for me its about getting the attitude right.
I would like to see a defensive coach in there but what I do find funny is people who are Ole out say we have too many young coaches not enough experience, when Phelan is named, they say he could't get a job anywhere else.....
Yet they wanted Poch who was jobless for a year.
Another long term project. Hard to judge anything, but seriously good luck to Fletch !
I didn't know this actually.
He might add some flair to our midfield. I'll get my coat.Great picture of Fletcher, McKenna and Carrick
Hyped for Fletcher!
Don't scare him off please. I bet they promised him Jones will be off. So he doesn't lose the will to live before he even starts!
Alex Ferguson’s thoughts about him as a player
Fergusons valuation of him as a player, personality, trainer and potential coach and manager is glowing appraisal of the highest order. Pulis immediately made him captain as a new player at WBA, which says something. He seems to have intelligence and a level head based on how he talks about the game. I’m sure solskjær and Nicky Butt have had a good chance of assesing how he does on the training ground from his stint as U-16 coach with us. I’d love to hear what other insiders say about him in a coaching capacity.
Yeah he should have been making the wanker sign
Yes... His goal against Everton was superb. He had a good shot.
Probably more known for his all round or basic skills and football-IQ than elegance, speed and wow-factor, except from a couple of beautiful moments off course
But every team need players, like Fletcher, who enables others to shine.I liked the player, Fletcher, but wasn’t his biggest fan. I am actually more impressed of his personality and his reflections and analytical skills. That’s the main reason why I think he well do a very good job as a first team coach.
Do you think Fletcher is doing a overlap with Phelan; that Phelan retires at the end of the season?
Case for Fletcher being a great hire:
- As a player, was a tactically brilliant player. He lived and breathed tactics.
- As a player again, he's all about maximising one's talent. He never had the best tools but he pushed himself to the limit.
- As an athlete, underwent a horrible disease and played through it all. Never say die attitude who had immense belief. Fergie's favourite for a reason. (Don't @ me on Scottish bias BS)
- As a personality, inspirational figure who had the respect of everyone around him in an incredible talented environment. A great speaker as well.
- Finally, he was part of many winning teams as the underdog who broke through with sheer graft. He has ELITE mentality and can guide our young squad in the tough moments.
Case for Fletcher being a poor hire:
- Has little to no experience of actual coaching
Darren Fletcher doesn't need to be experienced as a coach, he will grow into that. We have Mckenna and Carrick who've grown and will keep growing. Everyone forgets that all the great talented coaches were once young and became better over time. Young coaches don't mean bad coaches. Fletcher is United through and through, and he has qualities and authority that few outside of Ole and Carras has at the club when it comes to player culture. We are adding another inspiration figure at a time when our squad is displaying a great shift in mentality. Darren Fletcher will only aid that.
- As a player, was a tactically brilliant player. He lived and breathed tactics.
- As a player again, he's all about maximising one's talent. He never had the best tools but he pushed himself to the limit.
- As an athlete, underwent a horrible disease and played through it all. Never say die attitude who had immense belief. Fergie's favourite for a reason. (Don't @ me on Scottish bias BS)
- As a personality, inspirational figure who had the respect of everyone around him in an incredible talented environment. A great speaker as well.
- Finally, he was part of many winning teams as the underdog who broke through with sheer graft. He has ELITE mentality and can guide our young squad in the tough moments.
Case for Fletcher being a poor hire:
- Has little to no experience of actual coaching
Darren Fletcher doesn't need to be experienced as a coach, he will grow into that. We have Mckenna and Carrick who've grown and will keep growing. Everyone forgets that all the great talented coaches were once young and became better over time. Young coaches don't mean bad coaches. Fletcher is United through and through, and he has qualities and authority that few outside of Ole and Carras has at the club when it comes to player culture. We are adding another inspiration figure at a time when our squad is displaying a great shift in mentality. Darren Fletcher will only aid that.
I hope Fletcher will make a great coach, he was a well-coached professional and leader.
I think one of the reasons great players do not necessarily become great coaches is because when playing, they rely more on their natural ability than coaching and tactical instructions. So they end up never acquiring much in instruction and teaching to pass on. They are usually the kind who need the freedom to perform i.e. don't shackle them with too much information.
I think one of the reasons great players do not necessarily become great coaches is because when playing, they rely more on their natural ability than coaching and tactical instructions. So they end up never acquiring much in instruction and teaching to pass on. They are usually the kind who need the freedom to perform i.e. don't shackle them with too much information.
If Ole felt adding Fletch to the coaching staff would help the team then that is good enough for me.
Exactly!
I cannot understand why people are so suspicious about such an appointment. I guess it’s simply due to lack of belief and trust on Ole and his coaching team.
It’s more than one road to Rome. You don’t have to been a horse to be a good jockey, but I’m sure it would’ve been an advantage if it was possible.
Fletcher had a very good understanding of football when he played. He has a lot experience from being captain both in PL and on the the national team, saying something about his leader skills and standing as a person.
During his period as an expert-commentator he impressed many of us with his sensible and objective reflections and analysis, sometimes brilliant as well.
I can’t see anything wrong with the employment of Fletcher.