David Raya

[lex talionis]

This is where I'm at.

Yes we need a better overall footballer, but not with a significant downgrade in actual ability to keep the ball out the net.

This is a key point that the "modern goalkeeper" fanbois club keep overlooking. You can spray the ball with inch-perfect passes all day long, but if you're not at De Gea's level as a shot-stopper it would be pretty fukking daft to go for that keeper.

The right answer is to keep De Gea but bring in a youngish keeper who will develop under De Gea with strategically limited appearances and in 2-3 years will succeed De Gea. Say someone like the keeper Dean Henderson should have been but without being a head case.

 

[Bebestation]

De Gea does not keep the ball out of the net during corners.

 

[Oranges038]

Too much money to spend on someone who might not even displace De Gea as first choice. I think it’s likely De Gea will be kept for at least one more season.

If we sign a keeper this summer I can see us bringing in a younger player like Verbruggen, Petrovic or someone similar who will develop either as backup or on loan.

I think this whole idea of bringing in a young deputy to gradually phase out and eventually replace DDG, while he's still at the club will not work. Similarly, bringing in someone else and keeping DDG on as no.2, will also not work.

I don't think you can bring in a guy and have the old no. 1 sitting on the bench breathing down his neck, especially since the old no.1 has been in the club 10+ years.

For me, having 2 competing number ones doesn't work. Because they're always going to be trying to prove they are better than the other, but also going to be aware that one mistake could mean they are dropped. So you end up, with a mixture of risk taking/tryng to do too much to impress but also some nerves, which can lead to mistakes.

You either renew DDG and keep him as no.1. Or you just take a clean break, let him go for free and bring in a new number 1 that is suited to the rest of the team and style ETH wants. For me that's the choice that should be made.

I'm not sold on Raya, but it's a keeper with that all round skillset that's required.

 

[Lux Thunder]

This is a key point that the "modern goalkeeper" fanbois club keep overlooking. You can spray the ball with inch-perfect passes all day long, but if you're not at De Gea's level as a shot-stopper it would be pretty fukking daft to go for that keeper.

The right answer is to keep De Gea but bring in a youngish keeper who will develop under De Gea with strategically limited appearances and in 2-3 years will succeed De Gea. Say someone like the keeper Dean Henderson should have been but without being a head case.

And what De Gea fanboys keep overlooking is that his shot-stopping ability declined and that is not on the same level it was a few seasons ago, and apart from that there is not much he can offer at the highest level.

What also is overlooked are crosses that the opponents put into our box, which a half-decent keeper with solid bravery will claim, but not De Gea - he will stay on the line anticipating a shot to make a Hollywood save. In that scenario, I easily choose preventing chances rather than taking odds on him making a save.

 

[SoCross]

I think this whole idea of bringing in a young deputy to gradually phase out and eventually replace DDG, while he's still at the club will not work. Similarly, bringing in someone else and keeping DDG on as no.2, will also not work.

I don't think you can bring in a guy and have the old no. 1 sitting on the bench breathing down his neck, especially since the old no.1 has been in the club 10+ years.

For me, having 2 competing number ones doesn't work. Because they're always going to be trying to prove they are better than the other, but also going to be aware that one mistake could mean they are dropped. So you end up, with a mixture of risk taking/tryng to do too much to impress but also some nerves, which can lead to mistakes.

You either renew DDG and keep him as no.1. Or you just take a clean break, let him go for free and bring in a new number 1 that is suited to the rest of the team and style ETH wants. For me that's the choice that should be made.

I'm not sold on Raya, but it's a keeper with that all round skillset that's required.

Agreed. It was what SAF did, let David and Lindergaard battle it out for the number 1 spot after VDS retired.

I’m pretty ok with big Dave to continue simply because we have more pressing priorities to address in my eyes.

 

[gajender]

Agreed. It was what SAF did, let David and Lindergaard battle it out for the number 1 spot after VDS retired.

I’m pretty ok with big Dave to continue simply because we have more pressing priorities to address in my eyes.

No De Gea was clearly the no 1 and was bought on as one what actually happened was SAF protected him during his initial struggles by taking him away from the spotlight .

 

[SoCross]

No De Gea was clearly the no 1 and was bought on as one what actually happened was SAF protected him during his initial struggles by taking him away from the spotlight .

Lindergaard began to play more after De Gea struggled initially and then he got injured, if memory serves me right. De Gea never lost his place after that.

 

[Oranges038]

Agreed. It was what SAF did, let David and Lindergaard battle it out for the number 1 spot after VDS retired.

I’m pretty ok with big Dave to continue simply because we have more pressing priorities to address in my eyes.

I think DDG was brought in to be no.1. He had his struggles and Lindegaard played a few matches. But Lindegaard was awful. I don't think it was ever in doubt.

I just don't see how you can have 2 guys vying for no.1 spot at the same time. Especially if one of them has been at the club as long as DDG. It'll just create uncertainty in the back line, especially if they have opposing styles.

You either keep DDG as number 1. Or just remove him from the equation altogether and go ahead and bring in someone like Raya, who has a better all round game, with a skillset much more suited to the style of football ETH wants to play.

 

[lex talionis]

And what De Gea fanboys keep overlooking is that his shot-stopping ability declined and that is not on the same level it was a few seasons ago, and apart from that there is not much he can offer at the highest level.

What also is overlooked are crosses that the opponents put into our box, which a half-decent keeper with solid bravery will claim, but not De Gea - he will stay on the line anticipating a shot to make a Hollywood save. In that scenario, I easily choose preventing chances rather than taking odds on him making a save.

Declined from what to what? It's not as though De Gea can barely stop a shot any longer. I dispute your claim in the first place. If the peak of De Gea's shop-stopping ability was that magical performance against Real Madrid a decade ago, he's still 99% of that shot-stopping keeper. He won't make the same legendary foot-save that he made on Coentrao, but he's still making saves that Ramsdale and Raya can only dream of. And Ramsdale is making some very decent saves these days, but he's not in the league of De Gea as a shot stopper.

"A couple of seasons ago" De Gea was shite, easily in the worst form of his life. Soft shots would slip through his gloves and worse, which we don't see now. You cannot argue that De Gea is a worse keeper now than he was a couple of seasons ago.

As for the criticisms of other aspects of his game, I would recommend you take a closer look at other keepers. We're seeing top keepers more and more stay rooted on their lines for crosses. Even Alisson, who's a physically more imposing athlete, is letting crosses go into the box unchallenged. And when we do see keepers come out for crosses, we're seeing quite a few of them getting it wrong. I agree that it would be great to see De Gea dominate the box the way Schmeichel and Van Der Sar used to, but anyone who believes that Raya is that keeper will not be pleased to see that he isn't.

 

[Lux Thunder]

Declined from what to what? It's not as though De Gea can barely stop a shot any longer. I dispute your claim in the first place. If the peak of De Gea's shop-stopping ability was that magical performance against Real Madrid a decade ago, he's still 99% of that shot-stopping keeper. He won't make the same legendary foot-save that he made on Coentrao, but he's still making saves that Ramsdale and Raya can only dream of. And Ramsdale is making some very decent saves these days, but he's not in the league of De Gea as a shot stopper.

"A couple of seasons ago" De Gea was shite, easily in the worst form of his life. Soft shots would slip through his gloves and worse, which we don't see now. You cannot argue that De Gea is a worse keeper now than he was a couple of seasons ago.

As for the criticisms of other aspects of his game, I would recommend you take a closer look at other keepers. We're seeing top keepers more and more stay rooted on their lines for crosses. Even Alisson, who's a physically more imposing athlete, is letting crosses go into the box unchallenged. And when we do see keepers come out for crosses, we're seeing quite a few of them getting it wrong. I agree that it would be great to see De Gea dominate the box the way Schmeichel and Van Der Sar used to, but anyone who believes that Raya is that keeper will not be pleased to see that he isn't.

My apologies, I can admit I used "a few seasons ago" incorrectly, I was thinking about the time when he was saving us and signed his big contract, didn't realize that it was that long ago to be honest. All in all, he is not at the level that he was at that time IMO and apart from his shot-stopping ability he simply offers very little these days that can justify that fat contract and that is nothing to do with "modern goalkeepers" thing.

As for claiming crosses, I watch a lot of EPL games on yearly basis and I can disagree with you - he is way behind other keepers in that aspect of the game and I find it really annoying when goalkeepers let their defense sort those situations by themself. Not saying that he should catch every ball but a more commanding goalkeeper can take a lot of pressure off his defenders and prevent chances for opponents.

 

[lex talionis]

My apologies, I can admit I used "a few seasons ago" incorrectly, I was thinking about the time when he was saving us and signed his big contract, didn't realize that it was that long ago to be honest. All in all, he is not at the level that he was at that time IMO and apart from his shot-stopping ability he simply offers very little these days that can justify that fat contract and that is nothing to do with "modern goalkeepers" thing.

As for claiming crosses, I watch a lot of EPL games on yearly basis and I can disagree with you - he is way behind other keepers in that aspect of the game and I find it really annoying when goalkeepers let their defense sort those situations by themself. Not saying that he should catch every ball but a more commanding goalkeeper can take a lot of pressure off his defenders and prevent chances for opponents.

Where there is unanimous agreement is that 375k/week is excessive for any keeper these days, even if were talking about peak Schmeichel.

I completely agree that De Gea is rooted to his line more than most keepers, but we are just not seeing many keepers today dominate their penalty box as Schmeichel and Buffon used to or Alisson did 2-3 seasons ago. What worries keepers more than anything else these days is flapping at the ball or otherwise being caught out.

Let's take a look at Gavin Bazunu, a keeper I like, over the weekend v Erling Haaland.


Was Bazunu right to not challenge for the cross? It's a close call. I'd say he should have challenge for the ball, but the point is that we see keepers all the time now not challenge on balls like this.

Another significant consideration when deciding whether to challenge on balls like this frequently is the risk of injury. Alisson might come out ahead against most strikers and thus will challenge this kind of call, but most keepers will find themselves in a vulnerable position against strikers and will -- and I have no proof to back this up -- come out worse in a direct confrontation with a forward like Haaland or Toney or Kane or Mitrovic. Given our options behind De Gea, what we really don't want to see is De Gea go out with injury on account of a challenge on a crossed ball, most of which do not end up in the back of the net if the defenders are doing their job. Not all the time, but most of the time.

 

[Lux Thunder]

Where there is unanimous agreement is that 375k/week is excessive for any keeper these days, even if were talking about peak Schmeichel.

I completely agree that De Gea is rooted to his line more than most keepers, but we are just not seeing many keepers today dominate their penalty box as Schmeichel and Buffon used to or Alisson did 2-3 seasons ago. What worries keepers more than anything else these days is flapping at the ball or otherwise being caught out.

Let's take a look at Gavin Bazunu, a keeper I like, over the weekend v Erling Haaland.


Was Bazunu right to not challenge for the cross? It's a close call. I'd say he should have challenge for the ball, but the point is that we see keepers all the time now not challenge on balls like this.

Another significant consideration when deciding whether to challenge on balls like this frequently is the risk of injury. Alisson might come out ahead against most strikers and thus will challenge this kind of call, but most keepers will find themselves in a vulnerable position against strikers and will -- and I have no proof to back this up -- come out worse in a direct confrontation with a forward like Haaland or Toney or Kane or Mitrovic. Given our options behind De Gea, what we really don't want to see is De Gea go out with injury on account of a challenge on a crossed ball, most of which do not end up in the back of the net if the defenders are doing their job. Not all the time, but most of the time.

It's close call but I think Bazunu should be braver in his decision to leave the line and challenge for the ball (we can see it by his footsteps that he wasn't sure if he should go for it or stay on the line), but we can't say for sure, even the cross is heading into his six-yard box, that he would get there before Haaland so I don't blame him - it's a high-quality cross from very good crossing angle in the first place (something that I noticed ETH also tries to implement with us rather than overlapping and crossing from wider areas and awkward angles).

Although I can agree that injury to De Gea would mean a massive drop in quality in our goal at the moment, I have to be honest and say I don't understand all of what you are saying here.

Injuries are part of this game and if you are not ready to put your body out for the badge, especially at a professional level, you should never leave the locker room in the first place. Be loud, raise your knee and bloody go for it. If I understand you correctly, does it mean that wingers should not be tricky and dribble opponents because they could get injured and that they should be aware of the physical presence/strength of defenders ?

 

[Sylar]

but he's still making saves that Ramsdale and Raya can only dream of.

Out of interest, which saves are those?

 

[Oranges038]

Out of interest, which saves are those?

Ones like those that Ramsdale made on Sunday.

 

[Andersonson]

Ones like those that Ramsdale made on Sunday.

Which surprised even the more tinted Arsenal fan. He rarely comes up with those. If he does he will replace Pickford in an instant

 

[lex talionis]

Out of interest, which saves are those?

I don't have them listed by name on index cards. Watch a recent United match (not v Everton, when De Gea nothing to worry about).

 

[Sylar]

I don't have them listed by name on index cards. Watch a recent United match (not v Everton, when De Gea nothing to worry about).

RIght, but this is such a nothing comment on a forum. I dont get why people do this?

Ive seen all United matches this season. If they are saves 'only he can make', then it would stand out and you wouldnt have to try hard to remember them. Im asking because youre adamant hes made saves (more than one) that only he can make. The Leicester save was a fantastic save, but what else? I like DDG but this seems OTT.

And much to this point:

Ones like those that Ramsdale made on Sunday.

If DDG made those saves, people would be saying, this is why having a shot stopper is more important as nobody else in the league can do these. Im not going to make a Raya thread about DDG, we have the DDG thread for that. But given your answer, I know the way this conversation will go.

As for Raya, I dont think hes a special shot stopper. But from what ive seen, other elements are really solid, like sweeping, passing with either foot, and one thing ive seen is his willingness to come and claim a cross (eg near the end of the match to relieve pressure on his defence). I saw it as recent as the brighton game (I missed the newcastle game but saw highlights)

That Nick Pope save at 0-0 (which lead to Toneys offside goal) was fantastic and similar to DDG vs Leicester the way he scooped the ball.

 

[Kostov]

And what De Gea fanboys keep overlooking is that his shot-stopping ability declined and that is not on the same level it was a few seasons ago, and apart from that there is not much he can offer at the highest level.

What also is overlooked are crosses that the opponents put into our box, which a half-decent keeper with solid bravery will claim, but not De Gea - he will stay on the line anticipating a shot to make a Hollywood save. In that scenario, I easily choose preventing chances rather than taking odds on him making a save.

The 13 clean sheets in the league which is the best in the moment must have come out of pure luck or because we have the best set of CBs and FBs in the country. Add to that our plethora of quality CDM besides Casemiro it has to be down to pure luck or some dark magic.

 

[Kostov]

Out of interest, which saves are those?

How about the Willian save against Fulham at 0:0 or the Antonio save 1 on 1? Or the couple of quality saves against Leicester when our defense was leaking chances at the start of the game?

 

[Lux Thunder]

The 13 clean sheets in the league which is the best in the moment must have come out of pure luck or because we have the best set of CBs and FBs in the country. Add to that our plethora of quality CDM besides Casemiro it has to be down to pure luck or some dark magic.

Ok, wait a moment, I never in any sentence said it is pure luck nor did I disrespect any of DDG's current and previous achievements but when you already started that conversation you can't give credit only to the goalkeeper for the clean sheets record when you have a great base of Varane - Martinez - Casemiro in front of him, with Shaw in great form this season and Dalot and AWB both but on different parts of the season showed very good form too.

Add to that players a more proactive goalkeeper who isn't afraid to leave his line and we could probably see even better records for both CS and xGA conceded.

 

[Borys]

The 13 clean sheets in the league which is the best in the moment must have come out of pure luck or because we have the best set of CBs and FBs in the country. Add to that our plethora of quality CDM besides Casemiro it has to be down to pure luck or some dark magic.

Interesting. In 7 of those 13 games xGA was below 1, so mostly defensive line did well and De Gea just defended what he should. In 4 games xG was above 1, he definitely saved us against West Ham, Southampton, Leicester and Leeds.

I think downplaying our back 4 + Casemiro is silly, to be honest I don't know which teams are significantly better then them individually. The problem is when it rains it pours, so despite having the same number of clean sheets as Newcastle, we have also conceded 16 goals more (+76%).

I would say it's hardly controversial to say that De Gea is the weak link of our back 5/6 when everyone is fit.

 

[Kag]

This is a key point that the "modern goalkeeper" fanbois club keep overlooking. You can spray the ball with inch-perfect passes all day long, but if you're not at De Gea's level as a shot-stopper it would be pretty fukking daft to go for that keeper.

The right answer is to keep De Gea but bring in a youngish keeper who will develop under De Gea with strategically limited appearances and in 2-3 years will succeed De Gea. Say someone like the keeper Dean Henderson should have been but without being a head case.

Utopian claptrap. Next you’ll be suggesting bringing in Anderson to eventually replace Giggs…

When it comes to De Gea you make a decision. A cold, hard one. Hopefully the sort that Guardiola made about Joe Hart when he recognised his Premier League-winning goalkeeper wasn’t for him. What you don’t do is have him festering about, or a younger goalkeeper pissing about on the bench for two to three years.

If we bring in a goalkeeper then he needs to be the new man. Anything less firm than that and we’ll pay a terrible price.

 

[Sylar]

How about the Willian save against Fulham at 0:0 or the Antonio save 1 on 1? Or the couple of quality saves against Leicester when our defense was leaking chances at the start of the game?

Great saves. Again, are you really under the belief other keepers wouldnt make those saves? We've seen Ramsdale, and Pickford make one on one saves in the similar vein just this weekend.
Ive seen Pope make a similar save to the other Leicester one (just this weekend).

This notion that DDG makes saves 'others' cant is shown as crazy when you watch other keepers making similar saves through the season. Especially ones who people say arent great shotstoppers (Ramsdale,Pickford).
DDG has made some really good saves for sure, but lets not pretend these are out of the world saves like his one vs Mata from the free kick in the 3-3 or similar, and that hes doing it every game.

Raya might not be the answer, and thats fine too. But we wont know unless we (well United) assess the overall fit into our team to see if his strengths outweigh his weaknesses.

 

[Kostov]

Interesting. In 7 of those 13 games xGA was below 1, so mostly defensive line did well and De Gea just defended what he should. In 4 games xG was above 1, he definitely saved us against West Ham, Southampton, Leicester and Leeds.

I think downplaying our back 4 + Casemiro is silly, to be honest I don't know which teams are significantly better then them individually. The problem is when it rains it pours, so despite having the same number of clean sheets as Newcastle, we have also conceded 16 goals more (+76%).

I would say it's hardly controversial to say that De Gea is the weak link of our back 5/6 when everyone is fit.

I am not downplaying our defenders never mind Casemiro, but the clean sheets are a credit to DDG just as much as Martinez, Varane and Shaw. Martinez and Shaw have had some shockers this season, despite some acting like they have had a perfect season. I am not disputing that DDG can be improved, he can and should be, absolutely, but RB when Dalot plays is just as much of an issue if we are realistic and whenever we are without Casemire, the team is a disaster waiting to happen in defense.

And when you mention Newcastle, yeah they have 16 less goals conceded but let's be realistic for a second, they outplayed us like a bunch of amateurs just a week ago, we barely created any chance against them, from top to bottom they look a better side than us, and it's not down to the GK.

 

[Borys]

I am not downplaying our defenders never mind Casemiro, but the clean sheets are a credit to DDG just as much as Martinez, Varane and Shaw. Martinez and Shaw have had some shockers this season, despite some acting like they have had a perfect season. I am not disputing that DDG can be improved, he can and should be, absolutely, but RB when Dalot plays is just as much of an issue if we are realistic and whenever we are without Casemire, the team is a disaster waiting to happen in defense.

And when you mention Newcastle, yeah they have 16 less goals conceded but let's be realistic for a second, they outplayed us like a bunch of amateurs just a week ago, we barely created any chance against them, from top to bottom they look a better side than us, and it's not down to the GK.

Fully agreed.

It's kind of funny that I don't recall our defenders/GK having "shocking" games and yet here we are with 37 goals conceded. Maybe I'm missing something but if someone asked me what went wrong - I really don't know*.

*apart from the few games that we looked like we had no midfield during Casemiro absence

 

[Kostov]

Ok, wait a moment, I never in any sentence said it is pure luck nor did I disrespect any of DDG's current and previous achievements but when you already started that conversation you can't give credit only to the goalkeeper for the clean sheets record when you have a great base of Varane - Martinez - Casemiro in front of him, with Shaw in great form this season and Dalot and AWB both but on different parts of the season showed very good form too.

Add to that players a more proactive goalkeeper who isn't afraid to leave his line and we could probably see even better records for both CS and xGA conceded.

So are we going to pretend that Liverpool and 7 goals conceded didn't happen with Varane-Martinez-Casemiro on the pitch? Or that Shaw and Dalot have had some proper shockers this season? Yeah the clean sheets are credit to the whole team and defense just like conceding 17 goals in 3 games against Brenford, City and Liverpool.

This proactive GK everybody wants (me including) should come as the complete package, not just another overrated nutter like Pickford who will shit the beg.

 

[Kostov]

Fully agreed.

It's kind of funny that I don't recall our defenders/GK having "shocking" games and yet here we are with 37 goals conceded. Maybe I'm missing something but if someone asked me what went wrong - I really don't know*.

*apart from the few games that we looked like we had no midfield during Casemiro absence

Shaw had a shocker just a week ago against Newcastle, (probably down to being doubled up in defense with Trippier and Murphy), Martinez if I recall correctly was shocking against Brenford when we lost 4:0 and pretty bad against Liverpool in the 7 goal fiasco, yet none of those games is an issue to be treated separately IMO, we were losing those games regardless of who was playing.

 

[Sir Erik ten Hag]

I think this whole idea of bringing in a young deputy to gradually phase out and eventually replace DDG, while he's still at the club will not work. Similarly, bringing in someone else and keeping DDG on as no.2, will also not work.

I don't think you can bring in a guy and have the old no. 1 sitting on the bench breathing down his neck, especially since the old no.1 has been in the club 10+ years.

For me, having 2 competing number ones doesn't work. Because they're always going to be trying to prove they are better than the other, but also going to be aware that one mistake could mean they are dropped. So you end up, with a mixture of risk taking/tryng to do too much to impress but also some nerves, which can lead to mistakes.

You either renew DDG and keep him as no.1. Or you just take a clean break, let him go for free and bring in a new number 1 that is suited to the rest of the team and style ETH wants. For me that's the choice that should be made.

I'm not sold on Raya, but it's a keeper with that all round skillset that's required.

Van Gaal had De Gea, yet still brought Valdes (and later Romero) in for competition. Seemed to work well. For any other position on the field, we always say competition creates a healthy environment. Why not goalkeeper?

 

[Kostov]

Utopian claptrap. Next you’ll be suggesting bringing in Anderson to eventually replace Giggs…

When it comes to De Gea you make a decision. A cold, hard one. Hopefully the sort that Guardiola made about Joe Hart when he recognised his Premier League-winning goalkeeper wasn’t for him. What you don’t do is have him festering about, or a younger goalkeeper pissing about on the bench for two to three years.

If we bring in a goalkeeper then he needs to be the new man. Anything less firm than that and we’ll pay a terrible price.

"Utopian claptrap"

Are you suggesting we can't do the same thing Arsenal did with Leno and Ramsdale? Or to a different degree how Chelsea handled the Cech and Curtois situation? Yes there is a possible solution with DDG still here and a younger talented GK, as long as the candidate is the right fit and talented enough.

 

[Lux Thunder]

So are we going to pretend that Liverpool and 7 goals conceded didn't happen with Varane-Martinez-Casemiro on the pitch? Or that Shaw and Dalot have had some proper shockers this season? Yeah the clean sheets are credit to the whole team and defense just like conceding 17 goals in 3 games against Brenford, City and Liverpool.

This proactive GK everybody wants (me including) should come as the complete package, not just another overrated nutter like Pickford who will shit the beg.

No, of course not, and I didn't even think that way but by that logic, you're pointing to now, it will be the same as blaming DDG as he faced 8 shots on target with 2.92 xG against Liverpool and still shipped in 7 goals (which I don't). You can't pretend that our solid defensive record this season, apart from the games you mentioned, does not correlate with the signing of Casemiro and Martinez.

Pickford, wtf ? Obviously, I'm not the biggest fan of DDG but I wouldn't change him for Pickford, never. Never did I mention him a potential replacement, it is usual caf post-match syndrome when someone had a good game against us.

 

[Borys]

I think this whole idea of bringing in a young deputy to gradually phase out and eventually replace DDG, while he's still at the club will not work. Similarly, bringing in someone else and keeping DDG on as no.2, will also not work.

I don't think you can bring in a guy and have the old no. 1 sitting on the bench breathing down his neck, especially since the old no.1 has been in the club 10+ years.

For me, having 2 competing number ones doesn't work. Because they're always going to be trying to prove they are better than the other, but also going to be aware that one mistake could mean they are dropped. So you end up, with a mixture of risk taking/tryng to do too much to impress but also some nerves, which can lead to mistakes.

You either renew DDG and keep him as no.1. Or you just take a clean break, let him go for free and bring in a new number 1 that is suited to the rest of the team and style ETH wants. For me that's the choice that should be made.

I'm not sold on Raya, but it's a keeper with that all round skillset that's required.

There probably isn't a good/obvious solution to where we are as currently we have 0 goalkeepers for next season. Personally I would definitely rather spend 20m on Raya than for example Sabitzer.

Keeping De Gea might be a good idea IMO, I don't see a problem with this, he actually hasn't been first choice for Spain for quite a while so he probably by now understands he's no longer tier 1 goalkeeper and he's not getting a United-level offer anyway. He is also too young to retire so I guess it's just down to if he's happy to be 2nd choice gk from now on (if we can bring a new GK that is).

 

[Oranges038]

Van Gaal had De Gea, yet still brought Valdes (and later Romero) in for competition. Seemed to work well. For any other position on the field, we always say competition creates a healthy environment. Why not goalkeeper?

Brought in to be backup. They understood that & DDG understood that.

It's a different position to any other, have 2 goalkeepers fighting it out and rotating isn't the same as say having 2 fullbacks, or wingers on rotation.

You generally don't see top teams having central players fighting it out on rotation. Gk, CB,MF,CF - Having a set spine with these players starts with the keeper and feeds out through the rest of the team, that's why I think having a new no.1 who suits the team is as important as buying a new midfielder or a right back. Bring one in, say thanks and goodbye to DDG and move on.

 

[Kag]

"Utopian claptrap"

Are you suggesting we can't do the same thing Arsenal did with Leno and Ramsdale? Or to a different degree how Chelsea handled the Cech and Curtois situation? Yes there is a possible solution with DDG still here and a younger talented GK, as long as the candidate is the right fit and talented enough.

Yes, I am.

Leno was bought to be first choice and Arteta binned him when he didn’t fancy him. Courtios replaced Cech the moment he returned from Madrid as planned. He didn’t dick about on the bench for two or three years.

It’s just a nonsense solution. Just buy a better goalkeeper than De Gea who can dominate his box and progress the ball up the field with more confidence. Guardiola did it. Ten Hag should as well.

 

[lex talionis]

Utopian claptrap. Next you’ll be suggesting bringing in Anderson to eventually replace Giggs…

When it comes to De Gea you make a decision. A cold, hard one. Hopefully the sort that Guardiola made about Joe Hart when he recognised his Premier League-winning goalkeeper wasn’t for him. What you don’t do is have him festering about, or a younger goalkeeper pissing about on the bench for two to three years.

If we bring in a goalkeeper then he needs to be the new man. Anything less firm than that and we’ll pay a terrible price.

There comes a time when everyone has to step down and step out. De Gea won't be at OT 4 years from now, when he'll be 36, so we have to ask ourselves when should the planning for his successor begin? It maybe could wait another season, but we'd still have a backup keeper issue to address this summer.

How could I forget about current backup keepers? Maybe we can get by with Tom Heaton and Jack Butland, but if we're thinking ahead 2-3 seasons neither of those two are the long-term answer. And what you don't want to do, unless we have the inside track on a proven world class keeper like Alisson (not gonna happen, just saying), is bring in a promising young talent at keeper and throw him straight into the cauldron at OT.

 

[Kostov]

Yes, I am.

Leno was bought to be first choice and Arteta binned him when he didn’t fancy him. Courtios replaced Cech the moment he returned from Madrid as planned. He didn’t dick about on the bench for two or three years.

It’s just a nonsense solution. Just buy a better goalkeeper than De Gea who can dominate his box and progress the ball up the field with more confidence. Guardiola did it. Ten Hag should as well.

Leno and Ramsdale spent a season together as did Cech and Curtois, so did Courtois and Navas if I remember correctly. Let's try finding the right replacement, DDG will probably ask to leave himself if he is not played.

 

[lex talionis]

It really comes down to where Raya sees himself in 2-3 years. He can settle for a club like Spurs and start every game but go an entire career without a major trophy...or he can join United and be De Gea's backup for now, become a regular starter in 2-3 years and collect -- or at least have a reasonable hope of collecting -- major trophies.

He's only 27 right now, not at all old for a keeper.

 

[Samid]

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[userman]

It really comes down to where Raya sees himself in 2-3 years. He can settle for a club like Spurs and start every game but go an entire career without a major trophy...or he can join United and be De Gea's backup for now, become a regular starter in 2-3 years and collect -- or at least have a reasonable hope of collecting -- major trophies.

He's only 27 right now, not at all old for a keeper.

If Raya gets signed, and De Gea stays, what makes you so sure that it's Raya that would be the backup?

 

[pcaming]

It really comes down to where Raya sees himself in 2-3 years. He can settle for a club like Spurs and start every game but go an entire career without a major trophy...or he can join United and be De Gea's backup for now, become a regular starter in 2-3 years and collect -- or at least have a reasonable hope of collecting -- major trophies.

He's only 27 right now, not at all old for a keeper.

If Raya signs, he will be first choice within the first month or two.

 

[Who's Kissing Cameras?]

Raya is dominant aerially. That alone will make such a big difference in the way we defend. It’s a no brainer.