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Day 17: England vs Germany | Sweden vs Ukraine (Ro16 7&8)

Irwin99

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ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg said:
i wouldn’t be surprised to see Henderson start alongside Phillips. Did well when he came on, and another full week of training. Must be close to starting.
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Well Maguire came back and he looked really good from the clips I saw of that match so maybe Henderson will but even then, I still think Germany's midfield is better and if Kroos is allowed to boss possession he will do.

I can't guess how this one will go. If Germany play like they did against Portugal it could be really tough to withstand that pressure but England have looked dangerous on and off in games and I fancy Kane to finally score against this German defence.
 

Dominos

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Raredaredevil said:
This is Gareth Southgate's first real test. Beat Germany and England pretty much have a straight path to the final. As a Die Mannschaft fan, this is my biggest fear as England is a match-up nightmare for Germany.
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England have lost to Iceland and went to penalties with Columbia in recent knockout ties. The likes of Sweden and Netherlands are easily capable of knocking us out even if we would be favourites.
 
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saivet

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Dominos said:
England have lost to Iceland and went to penalties with Costa Rica in recent knockout ties. The likes of Sweden and Netherlands are easily capable of knocking us out even if we would be favourites.
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Assume you mean Colombia and not Costa Rica unless I missed something?
 

Droid_Repairs

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Dominos said:
England have lost to Iceland and went to penalties with Costa Rica in recent knockout ties. The likes of Sweden and Netherlands are easily capable of knocking us out even if we would be favourites.
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This guy gets it.

TL/DR - Don't for a second believe that beating any team is a given for England.

For decades, I've heard fans and media talk about teams who 'should be no trouble for England' - only to be disappointed time and again, humbled at the hands of teams who on paper should be 'easy' to beat.

Nobody ever seems to take determination or 'tournament spirit' into account. It's what took South Korea to the semi final of the 2002 World Cup, Wales to the semi final of Euro 2016. Iceland are a good example, at the last Euros they brought with them a vocal and impassioned support, they were full of fight, organised and regimented. They came with a plan, and they executed it. We looked totally stunned and bereft of ideas during that defeat.

England have been a terrible tournament team since the golden generation at the 2002 world cup. That was the last time we ever really had a chance of challenging.

2004: Everybody thought beating Portugal was more or less a given - 'no trouble for a team like England'

2006: Scrape through against a very poor Ecuador team, but don't worry, Portugal should be no trouble for--

2008: Didn't even qualify.

2010: We got the 'golden draw' - there's no way Capello's boys can't get maximum points in that group!


And what happened? We fecked it from day one. Yeah you could blame Capello's weird mind games of not telling his team which players were starting until an hour minutes before kickoff, or Rob Green's butter fingers against the USA. But having been held by the USA, then Algeria, then scraping a 1-0 against Slovenia, it was hardly a surprise that Germany murdered us in the next round.

2014: Costa Rica and Uruguay will be no trouble for this England side, no trouble at all. The reality: Out at the group stage.

2016: Iceland! Basically a bye into the next round! They will be nO pRoBlEm fOr eNgLaNd


In 2018 we actually played quite well and for some reason, the media appeared to temper its expectations of the national team for a while. I'm not entirely sure why but this time it was England that had the underdog spirit about them. I don't think anybody really believed we were going to win the World Cup, other than the usual shitrag tabloids, and of course that fecking song making a chart comeback. But it was the first time I can remember where the expectations on England were actually very low, and it seemed like were just enjoying ourselves more than anything.

Look I'm not saying we shouldn't be confident and support the NT, but it is pure cringe hearing people describing a 'clear route to the final' for England.

Even if we do get past Germany, which in itself is going to an uphill slog, there is not a single team in the tournament that 'should be no problem for England'. How many times do we have to have our arse handed to us by 'inferior' footballing nations before we learn our damned lesson?
 
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Abraxas

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I wonder if Southgate is going to be tempted to match up like for like with Germany? That somehow seems like a very Southgate like thing to do. I think it'd be risky, we haven't played with that formation in the tournament and have been relatively solid. I also think you would lose a bit down the sides when it's wing back versus wingback, we could potentially have a lot of space to exploit in the channels if we do not match up with them.
 

RoyH1

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Droid_Repairs said:
This guy gets it.

TL/DR - Don't for a second believe that beating any team is a given for England.

For decades, I've heard fans and media talk about teams who 'should be no trouble for England' - only to be disappointed time and again, humbled at the hands of teams who on paper should be 'easy' to beat.

Nobody ever seems to take determination or 'tournament spirit' into account. It's what took South Korea to the semi final of the 2002 World Cup, Wales to the semi final of Euro 2016. Iceland are a good example, at the last Euros they brought with them a vocal and impassioned support, they were full of fight, organised and regimented. They came with a plan, and they executed it. We looked totally stunned and bereft of ideas during that defeat.

England have been a terrible tournament team since the golden generation at the 2002 world cup. That was the last time we ever really had a chance of challenging.

2004: Everybody thought beating Portugal was more or less a given - 'no trouble for a team like England'

2006: Scrape through against a very poor Ecuador team, but don't worry, Portugal should be no trouble for--

2008: Didn't even qualify.

2010: We got the 'golden draw' - there's no way Capello's boys can't get maximum points in that group!


And what happened? We fecked it from day one. Yeah you could blame Capello's weird mind games of not telling his team which players were starting until an hour minutes before kickoff, or Rob Green's butter fingers against the USA. But having been held by the USA, then Algeria, then scraping a 1-0 against Slovenia, it was hardly a surprise that Germany murdered us in the next round.

2014: Costa Rica and Uruguay will be no trouble for this England side, no trouble at all. The reality: Out at the group stage.

2016: Iceland! Basically a bye into the next round! They will be nO pRoBlEm fOr eNgLaNd


In 2018 we actually played quite well and for some reason, the media appeared to temper its expectations of the national team for a while. I'm not entirely sure why but this time it was England that had the underdog spirit about them. I don't think anybody really believed we were going to win the World Cup, other than the usual shitrag tabloids, and of course that fecking song making a chart comeback. But it was the first time I can remember where the expectations on England were actually very low, and it seemed like were just enjoying ourselves more than anything.

Look I'm not saying we shouldn't be confident and support the NT, but it is pure cringe hearing people describing a 'clear route to the final' for England.

Even if we do get past Germany, which in itself is going to an uphill slog, there is not a single team in the tournament that 'should be no problem for England'. How many times do we have to have our arse handed to us by 'inferior' footballing nations before we learn our damned lesson?
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Thank you for a well written and documented post.

As you say, there is no such thing as an easy game and the expectations that England has on its head are always to live up to. But that's not gonna stop the press talking England up to heaven and back. I can imagine the hardon that the publishers in the right wing tabloids are having from having gotten Germany for precisely this game and the headlines up to this match.
 

GueRed

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25 years since Southgate missed that pen against the Germans.

Time for redemption as manager..
 

christinaa

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Germans were very wise yesterday - get a draw and next play England!
 

groovyalbert

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So shite the England-Germany game is on at 5pm here. I'm going to have to either watch it somewhere at work, or miss most of it.

What's worse, bloody Sweden-Ukraine is the evening game. No offence to either, but that's hardly the prime-time knock-out fixture people want to see (bar the fans of both, that is).
 

RedChisel

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I expect England to wilt and buckle under the pressure as always. I hope I'm wrong.
 

UnitedSofa

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Really don’t understand why everyone is imploding and getting really pessimistic.
 

Rektsanwalt

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groovyalbert said:
The manager who won Germany the World Cup and Confederations Cup, whilst taking them to a Euro final and finishing third place in another World Cup? Just checking.
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That's the guy, yeah. Germany won it 2014 despite and not because of Löw. The rest are hardly achievements with such a side.
 

Hughes35

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Think it will be 1 goal either way in a really tight, nervy game.

Fingers crossed for Kane to finally arrive.
 

MU655

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We should be pushing our forwards up against their defenders. The German defence isn't great.

Unfortunately, we will play too deep and too negatively to target them.

I wouldn't be surprised if we go out on a whimper.
 

the_answer

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Germany conceded 5 goals in 3 games (if France were more determined could make it 7 goals against in 3 games.)
England conceded 0 goals in 3 games.
xG tells the same story.

England has to hit the German defence.
 

2ndTouch

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Schmeichel's Cartwheel said:
If we can get past the Germans it’s a clear path to
the final.

Southgate is the biggest worry here.
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Was thinking the same thing about you guys. :D All we have to do, is maintaining a good, 55yr old tradition of beating you whenever it matters.
Come on, you bloody Die Mannschaft feckers, you have one job!
 

groovyalbert

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Rektsanwalt said:
That's the guy, yeah. Germany won it 2014 despite and not because of Löw. The rest are hardly achievements with such a side.
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As someone who has seen various "golden generations" flatter to deceive for England, I will politely disagree :lol:
 

Rektsanwalt

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groovyalbert said:
As someone who has seen various "golden generations" flatter to deceive for England, I will politely disagree :lol:
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I understand where you're coming from, but looking at the recent german tourney squads, I see only quality players.
Anyway, did you watch those games where Germany played? Losing against France, drawing against Hungary and winning (semi-convincingly) against Portugal. Looking at the squad again: it's full of world class players. I don't think those results and performances are even remotely close to what this squad could display.
 

BFernandes

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It's going to be glorious to see the likes of Lineker, Jenas, Wright and Matterface in tears when the inevitable happens and England get dumped out.
 

UnitedSofa

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BFernandes said:
It's going to be glorious to see the likes of Lineker, Jenas, Wright and Matterface in tears when the inevitable happens and England get dumped out.
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We love to hate ourselves. I simply don’t understand.

I see more posts on here since Germany were confirmed as our opponents about us losing than us getting through. The mind boggles.

Yet the huge fecking irony is that if the results were switched:

England playing like Germany
Germany playing like England.

You’d be saying that Germany were cool calm and comfortable going into the match against England & we’d all be saying how dreadful we’ve been this tournament and how we don’t deserve to be there after losing to France and embarrassingly holding on for a draw against Hungary. There’d be inquests about how lucky we were to get through. Whilst Germany witha. Comfortable 1-0 against Croatia and a solid 0-0 against Scotland and a comfortable 1-0 against Czech Republic. We’d all be fearing a Germany who yet haven’t got out of 1st gear yet.

English football fans love to piss on their own parade. Let’s face it, Germany were and are the weakest of the 3 (France, Portugal and Germany) & we stand a good chance of getting through on Tuesday night. France were 2nd in my opinion as their defence is shaky at best and Portugal for me were the one to fear.

So let’s feck off this doom and gloom and get behind the team for Tuesday. We’re gonna do it lads!

EDIT: I'm not saying that we're 100% going to get through, as it's Germany and we shouldn't write them off. What I'm saying is we shouldn't fear the Germans at all. We should be going into this with the confidence that we can beat them. As they can be beat. They are ropey at best and a shadow of their former selves. They'll be up for it as it's England Vs Germany. But come on lads. Let's not shit the bed before we've even kicked a ball. You go into things like that you're destined to lose.
 

Rektsanwalt

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UnitedSofa said:
English football fans love to piss on their own parade. Let’s face it, Germany were and are the weakest of the 3 (France, Portugal and Germany) & we stand a good chance of getting through on Tuesday night.
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I personally don't think Portugal was better than Germany by any means. They're playing on a very similar level at the moment.
 

big rons sovereign

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Don't think it matters who England face in the next round, on paper they should be capable of beating anybody.
In reality, we know Southgate will play 9 defenders and we'll go out in extra time or pens.

If he starts henderson I think I might actually kick the TV.
 

2ndTouch

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Rektsanwalt said:
I understand where you're coming from, but looking at the recent german tourney squads, I see only quality players.
Anyway, did you watch those games where Germany played? Losing against France, drawing against Hungary and winning (semi-convincingly) against Portugal. Looking at the squad again: it's full of world class players. I don't think those results and performances are even remotely close to what this squad could display.
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In 2014, we smashed Portugal in the group stages, scraped to a lucky draw against Ghana, got an unconvincing 1-0 vs the US, and almost got kicked out by Algeria in R16.
In 2016, Portugal didn't win a single game in their group. Long story short, the tournament begins now, and previous results don't matter anymore.
 
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