Day 22: Brazil vs. Germany

Cheech Wizard

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Don't want either to win really but I want Germany to beat them it's time this hysterical/crying anthem, signs of the cross, and prayers to the skies nonsense is ended.

I want to watch a final that's open to the neutrals and not a stadium flooded with a sea of yellow shirts, a ref that will crack under pressure to fans and have to listen to the "the spirit of Brazil" crap commentators keep telling us. It's time to send them into national mourning. So, c'mon Germany.
 

Brwned

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Because that's what Brazilian teams have done in the past. When people think of Brazilian footballers, the first thing that comes to mind is flair. Brazil has produced many entertaining and skillful players in the past. They were really fun to watch, especially Ronaldinho. Therefore, people expect that. However, those who pay close attention to football know that Brazil just don't have the kind of players that they had in the past. This is why I can understand why People, especially Brazilians, look up to Neymar. They know he's the one player on that team that is similar to the kind of Brazilian players they're used to seeing in the past.

Essentially, Brazilian teams in the past were so skillful and entertaining that people expected that this time around. You can't expect the majority of people who turn up on WC years only to know the Brazilian team well. That's just naive.
I think Brazil have been entertaining in just 3 of the last 11 tournaments, it just so happens that two of those tournaments happen to be the most talked about international teams of all-time - 1970 and 1982. It's frequently overlooked that the teams in between those tournaments were functional, uninspired and very cynical. Aside from Rivelino, Jarzinho, Dirceu and Marinho Chagas (a LB), they really didn't have any players that captured the imagination at all. In '74 they managed just 6 goals in 6 group games despite playing in a group with Zaire in the first round (who Yugoslavia scored 9 goals against). In '78 they managed 8 goals in 6 group games plus 2 more in the 3rd place play-off. People talk about 2002 being functional with a few stars adding class in the final third, but in the mid-70s they hardly even had one star.

Then post-'82 Sócrates, Zico, Junior and Falcao were all in their 30s with the the Muller-Careca partnership up top being the closest thing to the star quality in '86 and '90 and that has been the way they've set up ever since. The holding midfielders play a very prominent role in the team in laying the groundwork for Bebeto-Romario and Rivaldo-Ronaldo. Ronaldinho was good in 2002 but nothing special, and the 2002 team as a whole wasn't particularly exciting. In 2006 they had Ronaldo, Kaká, Ronaldinho and Adriano but weren't great to watch and in 2010 their best players were a post-injury Kaká and a very inconsistent Robinho.

For me since 1970 the only truly exciting teams Brazil have had are '82 and '98. In that timeframe even Poland have had just as many exciting teams (if not more) never mind the likes of Holland, Germany etc.
 

fontaine

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I think Brazil have been entertaining in just 3 of the last 11 tournaments, it just so happens that two of those tournaments happen to be the most talked about international teams of all-time - 1970 and 1982. It's frequently overlooked that the teams in between those tournaments were functional, uninspired and very cynical. Aside from Rivelino, Jarzinho, Dirceu and Marinho Chagas (a LB), they really didn't have any players that captured the imagination at all. In '74 they managed just 6 goals in 6 group games despite playing in a group with Zaire in the first round (who Yugoslavia scored 9 goals against). In '78 they managed 8 goals in 6 group games plus 2 more in the 3rd place play-off. People talk about 2002 being functional with a few stars adding class in the final third, but in the mid-70s they hardly even had one star.

Then post-'82 Sócrates, Zico, Junior and Falcao were all in their 30s with the the Muller-Careca partnership up top being the closest thing to the star quality in '86 and '90 and that has been the way they've set up ever since. The holding midfielders play a very prominent role in the team in laying the groundwork for Bebeto-Romario and Rivaldo-Ronaldo. Ronaldinho was good in 2002 but nothing special, and the 2002 team as a whole wasn't particularly exciting. In 2006 they had Ronaldo, Kaká, Ronaldinho and Adriano but weren't great to watch and in 2010 their best players were a post-injury Kaká and a very inconsistent Robinho.

For me since 1970 the only truly exciting teams Brazil have had are '82 and '98. In that timeframe even Poland have had just as many exciting teams (if not more) never mind the likes of Holland, Germany etc.
I undersand the point you are trying to make, but you went to the other extreme
When we had great players, we delivered with excitement, unlike this Argentinean team

You have to count the in-between WC periods also

In 2006 we sucked because of many reasons (coach fielding old fullbacks and fat ronaldo), but the performances our team gifted us between 2002-2005 were almost absurd. Every home qualifying game was a master piece with loads of flair and creativity

Same thing with our team between 94 and 98. THe 97 team had Romario and Ronaldo together, with Djalminha, Rivaldo, Cafu, Roberto Carlos etc

(4-0 with 28 minutes hahaa)


 

mata10

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Bernad will be the star of the match.
 

redevil2

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I can respect that, but why are we the only team that is supposed to amuse people?
Amuse people? Where did you get the idea people expect your team to simply amuse?? If you are not capable of entertaining and winning, that's fine. But having a reputation of winning the Cup 5 times more or less give the country a bit of "burden" and who doesn't want that kind of reputation. IF you as fans don't like the attention, it's fine too. Just don't complain when people comment on some lesser performance.
Besides, did people take a look at our fecking generation of attacking players?
Its impressive enough that we won confederations cup and reached semis beating Colombia etc, and people want a show? With these players?
Heck, Argentina and Holland should be much more hated. Look at Argentina's attacking players delivering absurdly dull games
Holland tied Costa Rica 0-0 and no one flamed them.. Yet we beat two teams that are 10x more tough
To be honest I so much want Argentina to be out of the campaign so please let Holland put them out of misery tomorrow. lol
 

fontaine

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Uh... Bernard kind of kills my hopes of winning today.. Well, I hope he runs circles around Howedes
 

mata10

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I would not want klose to score, that record belongs to ronaldo and should be his forever. What a brilliant player, only if his injuries did not affect him so much.
 

OutlawGER

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So it's going to start soon. The biggest and most prestigious match-up (not derby) the world has to offer.

Im getting excited

Auf geht's Deutschland!
 

bosnian_red

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Is that the worst ever front 4 for a Brazilian starting 11? And in a semi final too. That's just shit for their standards. Fred, arguably the worst striker in the world cup, then the overrated Hulk who is pure power and pace, Bernard who is a pretty good young player but that's it. Then Oscar who is inconsistent, but on his day class. Still though, Neymar saved it before but now, without their 2 best players by far, that is just a very weak team.

I'm hoping Germany wins in normal time as I'm not sure if I'd be able to watch the second half of extra time if it got to that :nervous:
 

fontaine

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So it's going to start soon. The biggest and most prestigious match-up (not derby) you can imagine.

Im getting exciting.

Auf geht's Deutschland!
Its a shame that we have to play you in such a shit generational period.. Bernard and Fred

god, I'm hoping for a miracle
 

Lyricist

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Hulk vs Höwedes.... :wenger:

actually anyone vs Höwedes at FB has me worried a bit before the game (from a german perspective)
 

fontaine

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Is that the worst ever front 4 for a Brazilian starting 11? And in a semi final too. That's just shit for their standards. Fred, arguably the worst striker in the world cup, then the overrated Hulk who is pure power and pace, Bernard who is a pretty good young player but that's it. Then Oscar who is inconsistent, but on his day class. Still though, Neymar saved it before but now, without their 2 best players by far, that is just a very weak team.

I'm hoping Germany wins in normal time as I'm not sure if I'd be able to watch the second half of extra time if it got to that :nervous:
yes it is.. no question
 

Moriarty

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Don't want either to win really but I want Germany to beat them it's time this hysterical/crying anthem, signs of the cross, and prayers to the skies nonsense is ended.

I want to watch a final that's open to the neutrals and not a stadium flooded with a sea of yellow shirts, a ref that will crack under pressure to fans and have to listen to the "the spirit of Brazil" crap commentators keep telling us. It's time to send them into national mourning. So, c'mon Germany.
I hope so. I think Germany will be a bit too tough a nut for Brazil to crack. The referee will need to be on his toes and not one to bow to pressure from the crowd.
 

OutlawGER

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Its a shame that we have to play you in such a shit generational period.. Bernard and Fred

god, I'm hoping for a miracle
But we are missing crucial players too. For example Reus or Gündogan and playing with the likes of Höwedes, Klose (old) and Özil (useless).


It doesn't help to complain. Do the best out of it! :boring:
 

Revan

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Klose to score the winner, breaking the record on the process.
 

bosnian_red

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yes it is.. no question
How do you guys rate Bernard, by the way? He used to be seen as a very promising player from what I've heard, was linked with Arsenal but went to Shakhtar and since then I haven't really heard anything of him. Surprised to see Willian not starting as well.
 

fontaine

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How do you guys rate Bernard, by the way? He used to be seen as a very promising player from what I've heard, was linked with Arsenal but went to Shakhtar and since then I haven't really heard anything of him. Surprised to see Willian not starting as well.
I have no idea why he is being used in the WC, let alone this match. I'm sure this is Parreira's (the idiot) decision.

He's a quick player, thats it.. Would much prefer a 3 CM line up, giving Oscar more freedom. Or just putting Willian instead of him
 

RoadTrip

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Bernard over Willian is interesting. Frankly they should both be starting with Fred on the bench and hulk up top. He can't be worse than Fred who is arguably the worst striker to have ever played for Brazils at the World Cup.
 

Reddevilboy

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Seems like Germany is going for the same line-up they did against France. They really should be beating Brazil in 90 minutes, man for man, they are all better. Let's hope the ref doesn't bottle this up.
 

RoadTrip

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I have no idea why he is being used in the WC, let alone this match. I'm sure this is Parreira's (the idiot) decision.

He's a quick player, thats it.. Would much prefer a 3 CM line up, giving Oscar more freedom.
That's rubbish. Bernard is seen in Brazil as of similar talent to Neymar.

Edit: at least he used to be.

I'm probably chatting shit though.
 

mata10

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52 years ago pele got injured and brazil won the world cup. History to repeat itself?
 

fontaine

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That's rubbish. Bernard is seen in Brazil as of similar talent to Neymar.

Edit: at least he used to be.

I'm probably chatting shit though.
No way. He warms the bench for Taison in Shakhtar. There were at least 4 better options than him for the squad, let alone for starting XI