you must be 15 years old then
De Gea vs. Peter and Edwin
- Thread starter Offside
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what?? Every keeper makes blunders. Seriously look him up on youtube.So if Neuer transfered to Stoke would he suddenly become less good?
I'll be 33 this year and as a young keeper myself back in the day grew up worshipping Schmeichel. I've always held him as the best I've ever seen, but DDG has edged him now for me in terms of outright talent.
You mentioned the Great Dane's throws, that's something I'd like to see Dave try a bit more.
People are also a lot more previous and defensive when De Gea makes a mistake. There were people defending his keeping for Sanchezs goal at the Emirates, where every other keeper would've been nailed.
38. Schmeikel was a great keeper but he also had a great defense. VDS the same. This guy just makes genius save after genius save, week in week out. Never seen the like. If you sat down and worked out how many points he's been worth this season, and compared it to the other two, I suspect mathematically the point would be indisputable.
Obviously I can't be arsed to actually do this.
A great defense? Surely you remember all the one on ones he had?
It would help especially with that faster attack we have now.
Well I'm not saying he was sh#te.
Wasnt a dig at ddg, but history arent always fair
You missed out. Unreal. Schmeichel is/was possibly the best goalkeeper the game has ever seen. I used to look forward to watching games to see him play as much as any of the other 21 players on the pitch, that's how good he was. I find it hard to say DDG is better.
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Hasn't had his Davor Suker moment (yet).
It's funny between 91 and 99 I really don't remember anyone talking about our great defense. I think I've seen it all when people are trying to play down how good Schmeichel was because he apparantly played behind a great defense.
Schmikes was great, but he also made a lot of errors that both De Gea and certainly VDS wouldn't over the course of an average season, thats my only reason I wouldn't auto pick the Great Dane between the 3.
De Gea is right up there, once we are successful and start winning things, people will start giving him that recognition. I think he's better than VDS.
Not really fair to say that. United of Pete's time were wild and kamikaze-like and completely obsessed with attacking and being open, sometimes to detriment of the defense, and if it wasn't for Schmeichel being so stellar in all those one-on-ones, we would've looked like mugs a lot of the time or would've had to modify our play considerably.
He was susceptible to being lobbed, but only by absolutely brilliant exponents of the craft.
Can't blame Pete for being haphazard at times in such a set-up, imo. We calmed down so much since the 90's that keeping for us is almost unrecognisable from what Pete had to put up with. In that kind of set-up, there would be no better keeper than Schmeichel who could line up for us and do what he did.
In terms of transference between the 3 and the sides they had in front of them, VDS obviously had the easiest job by far as we had the best defensive duo in the world at their peak in front of him and a solid backline as a whole who played dilligent, CL-focused, pragmatic football a lot of the time. Schmeichel would not struggle in such a set up where VDS would not look half the keeper playing for our 90's sides.
DDG and Schmeichel have more in common in terms of being exposed and having to bail their teams out, for different reasons: one being tactical and the other being a poor side who can't do any better.
You're right, we were more gung-ho in Schmikes time here, which absolutely did leave him in the open and all too vulnerable compared to how we set up under VDS, there were a lot of unforced errors on top though, in all fairness, particuarly in his last couple years here as another poster pointed out.
Another thing I'd like to argue is everyone praises Schmikes for his mouth, communication, but he also brought, I feel... some uncertainty to the back four as he was a touch unpredictable and at times you could say rash, whereas with Ed, although he was a silent partner, he brought a level of calmness and fit over an organised back four like a glove, the consumate reliable steady eddy, regardless of kicking or coming out for crosses. I think that part of VDS game is absolutely underated.
I think more than anything both Schmeichel and VDS were perfect for their respective United teams, I would like to say, both the Dutch national team in the 90's and Ajax 94+ could be seen as pretty attacking teams though, so its not as if VDS always played in pragmatic sides. Certainly the Dutch side in the eraly 2000's, their defending and setup infront of him felt suicidal at times.
But I would also say as a pure big-game shot stopper Schmeichel is the best ever seen. My opinion.
Don't forget Schmeichel was a big reason why Denmark won the Euros in 92
Bruce, Pallister, Irwin, Neville and later Stam -- all substantially better than any of our defenders today. And Keane, arguably the greatest destroyer midfielder in the history of the game, in front of them. Simply put without any debate whatsoever, the 1990s sides Peter had in front of him were vastly superior to anyone Dave had in front of him.
Sure, Dave had Rio and Nemanja in his first season but they were all but done by then and in any event no one is comparing Dave's first season to the peak of Peter's career between 1991 and 1990. They're comparing Peter to Dave's last three seasons, where it's been one makeshift back line after another, nearly every single week.
Schmeichel joined United in 1991 when he was 28 years old and it can be argued he hit his peak in the years 95-99, when he was 32-36 years old. Dave right now is still only 25 years old and the discussion on this thread is whether Dave now, at age 25, is as great a keeper, is as great a keeper as Peter was at age 35.
Reasonable minds can disagree on whether a 25 year Dave is a greater keeper than a 35 year old Peter, but there can be no disagreement on two points -- 1) Peter had vastly better defenders (and Keane) in front of him 2) Dave is is a vastly better keeper at 25 than Peter was at 25.
That argument just doesn't hold up when you consider the styles of their respective teams. Bruce, Pallister (both aging) and Stam (for the one season he played with Peter) were great defenders but our sides in the 90s were incredibly gung-ho. We were hardly notorious for our defending then.
The current side is set up to keep clean sheets and restrict the opposition, Romero has 6 clean sheets this seson and he's crap!
If we had beaten Madrid over the 2 legs (if the refs hadn't been useless), DDG's performance at the Bernebeau would be noted as one of the best ever.
You know when you get to an age where you always think the past was better than the current in all ways?
I think I'm there now.
Schmeichel always for me. But De Gea is coming up strong as 2nd best.
I think I'm there now.
Schmeichel always for me. But De Gea is coming up strong as 2nd best.
It kind of seems like VDS is a bit underrated here. I think a big part of that is because we got Dave right away. If we had been stuck in keeper limbo for a few years people might have appreciated him more.
Not underrated but when you're being compared to a keeper who has a genuine claim to be the best of all-time and another who has the potential to be in that same bracket, you're talking about a level of keeper where only the likes of Buffon, Kahn and the like belong.
VDS was a very, very good keeper, but he was never the best in the world, let alone across eras.
I'd agree with that. VDS' strength was that he never made a mistake. The only two notable ones I can remember are him dropping a cross against some midtable team that stirred a comeback for them from 2-0 down to 2-2, and another error against Roma away in 07 where he palmed a shot right back to to an attacker for a tap-in.
He was also a great organizer of the defence, but he wasn't the type to make superhuman saves that both Schmeichel and DDG regularly made.
Yes, not a superhero-type of keeper, which I feel you have to be as the situation demands it in such company.
He was absolutely perfect for the team we had and his ability with his feet really enhanced that side.
His calmness and consistency really allowed those in front of him to express themselves, which was a blessing as well.
A very good keeper, but when put side-by-side with the best of the best, he's a tier or two below.
Oh my, how short some memories are.
The current United side is utter shite compared to the 98/99 side at nearly every single position. Smalling is nowhere near the defender Bruce, Pallister and Stam were. Blind has done a fine job this season, but come on. Darmian is no Neville and while I might be going out on a limb on this point, nor are Varela and Valencia. Fosu-Mensah has been brilliant in his 3-4 starts but to compare him favorably to Irwin would be...there are no words.
As for Keane, it's very safe to say that Carrick is no Keane.
Of course United in the 90s were fantastic everywhere on the pitch. Cantona, Scholes, Giggs, Beckham, etc., but we had a back line that is so far superior to our current back line that it insults valuable server space to defend that proposition.
Give United their due for their incredible attacking talent during the Schmeichel era, but the defenders Peter had in front of him -- Steve Bruce, Gary Pallister, Denis Irwin, Gary Neville and Jaap Stam -- are on anyone's list of top 10 United defender of of all time. At the risk of making an obvious point yet again, it's very safe to say that Chris Smalling, Daley Blind, Matteo Darmian and Timothy Fosu-Mensah have yet to prove that they are the equals of those five players.
By any measure, Peter had vastly better defenders in front of him than Dave has the last three seasons.
Love De Gea, but still will not put him above Schmeichel yet. Schmeichel commanded the penalty area like no other, and when strikers were one on one with him they would shite their pants.
You're missing the point completely. Stam/Pallister may be better than Smalling and Keane better than Carrick and Schneiderlin but that doesn't mean the team Schmeichel played in was great defensively. It wasn't a defensive team, it didn't play for clean sheets or try to stifle the life out of the game. Take Irwin and Neville, great defenders but they were attacking defenders, constantly overlapping and putting in crosses. DDG will look to pass it out to one of his defenders so we play it out from the back whereas Schmeichel would look to release Beckham/Giggs/Kanchelskis and set up attacks.
The current team is set up to restrict the opposition (we often play with two holding midfielders) and not give away chances. Schmiechel never played behind a midfield and defense with that sort of mentality. Schmeichel never played behind a great defense, Seaman played behind a great defense at that time at Arsenal. Schmeichel was always part of attacking teams which left the defense exposed.
I was too young to see Schmeichel properly, but I cannot imagine any keeper being a better shot-stopper than DDG. It seems like the only goals DDG concedes are ones that are genuinely not saveable - even then, he will save most of those. Schmeichel is regarded as our greatest GK ever and that is understandable, though, as he performed at such a level for a long time. VDS is definitely miles better than both at organising defences and steering clear of errors.
We're not talking about stats or records though. Base your view on individual, stand out performances, not how many saves or clean sheets have been recorded.
De Gea can save shots you'd think were definite goals, and he's got reflexes like no other keeper I've seen. Seeing as he's only 25, I can without a doubt see him catching up and surpassing Schmeichel in terms of being seen as the best keeper to have ever played for us. The only problem is he won't be here by the time he's 30
Probably not, but if he goes to Real we'll keeping watching him in awe until he retires about 13-14 years from now.We're not talking about stats or records though. Base your view on individual, stand out performances, not how many saves or clean sheets have been recorded.
De Gea can save shots you'd think were definite goals, and he's got reflexes like no other keeper I've seen. Seeing as he's only 25, I can without a doubt see him catching up and surpassing Schmeichel in terms of being seen as the best keeper to have ever played for us. The only problem is he won't be here by the time he's 30
Well yeah but you couldn't say he's the best keeper we've ever had if he spends his glory years at a different club, can you? You have to look at the years he's spent here, which so far he hasn't been better than Schmeichel.
What do you mean "may be better"? There is no may be in this assessment. Stam and Pallister and miles and miles ahead of Smalling and Blind and Keane miles ahead of Carrick and Schneidlerin.You're missing the point completely. Stam/Pallister may be better than Smalling and Keane better than Carrick and Schneiderlin but that doesn't mean the team Schmeichel played in was great defensively. It wasn't a defensive team, it didn't play for clean sheets or try to stifle the life out of the game. Take Irwin and Neville, great defenders but they were attacking defenders, constantly overlapping and putting in crosses. DDG will look to pass it out to one of his defenders so we play it out from the back whereas Schmeichel would look to release Beckham/Giggs/Kanchelskis and set up attacks.
The current team is set up to restrict the opposition (we often play with two holding midfielders) and not give away chances. Schmiechel never played behind a midfield and defense with that sort of mentality. Schmeichel never played behind a great defense
The United sides of the 1990s WERE great defensively. It happens that they also had a great midfield and great front line. They were complete sides that would demolish a side that might barely scrape out fourth place this season.
Sorry, it's fair game to argue that Peter is the equal of Dave in shot stopping etc., but once you wander into the argument that "Dave had back lines that were no worse than Peter's" you're straining yourself into making an absurd argument.
We were for about a year. Remember we had Lindegaard showing up all the time. Madrid away in 2013 soon ended all that.
Smike was dealing with the pressure of being league champion, challenging for title or as one of the best team in europe. He had to be on top form in about two or three games a week, due to United challenging in almost every top competitions.
Now what pressure has DDG faced so far? One league title?
Now what pressure has DDG faced so far? One league title?
love all 3 and the only thing i can say is de gea deserves a better team in front of him, that can win tittles for sure. defensively we have been pretty good, thanks to de gea of course and smalling and blind have been doing great actually. it is just as a whole team we are not helping de gea's course, not only the defense.
This!