Dean Henderson | Nottingham Forest loan watch

Greck

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A good goal can have poor goalkeeping and vice versa. Deanho United should just get ready to defend the 2-3 curlers he's going to concede every week. He actively makes it easier to do just that. This is a growing sample and it's increasing. His shot stopping positioning will be brutally exploited more and more. The guy(s) who talked about his shocking positioning months ago were all spot on.
 
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Oranges038

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He's playing shite, but so is the whole team ahead of him. The defending for a lot of the goals they concede is utterly laughable.
 

OnlyTwoDaSilvas

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As always the massive overly analysing of GK's shows that the majority of people have no clue about Goalkeeping.

First goal massive deflection wrong footed nothing you can do as a GK.

Second goal perfect finish really sweet FA you can do with that either.

Third goal, Damned if you do damned if don't, in hindsight he made a mistake to gamble on it coming over the wall, but if he hadn't done and did go over the wall he would probably be criticised for not gambling on it. Full credit for Madison his gamble of not going over the wall, kept it low and hard aswell, less distance to travel harder for the keeper to pick up.

Fourth goal, you can't anticipate the back heel shot coming through the defenders legs, he does well to get an hand to it because its low towards the corner and Daka gets a good contact on it. It's a good creative finish, as a GK with those you just hope there straight at you or the striker doesn't good enough contact, anything else you are pretty fecked from that distance.

I'm not advocating him as the second coming, he certainly has his flaws as a top level GK but even so I would still rather have Henderson warts and all in-between the sticks than De Gea.

Realistically though we need a serious upgrade in the GK department whatever.
Agreed on the analysis of the goals. He's under a microscope after the stuff he's said about United, but having watched the highlights, I don't think many keepers are stopping those. If I'm being hypercritical, I'd say a better keeper gets a stronger hand on the 4th goal. But it's a good finish, and very good contact considering the type of finish.

Other than that, a huge deflection, a well struck curler right into the side netting, and a post-and-in free kick disguised by Leicester's wall is going past the majority of keepers.

I'm not a fan of him particularly and not sure I'd want him to return, but he's not helped by how awful Forest look out of possession. Comical defending.
 

Greck

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Agreed on the analysis of the goals. He's under a microscope after the stuff he's said about United, but having watched the highlights, I don't think many keepers are stopping those. If I'm being hypercritical, I'd say a better keeper gets a stronger hand on the 4th goal. But it's a good finish, and very good contact considering the type of finish.

Other than that, a huge deflection, a well struck curler right into the side netting, and a post-and-in free kick disguised by Leicester's wall is going past the majority of keepers.

I'm not a fan of him particularly and not sure I'd want him to return, but he's not helped by how awful Forest look out of possession. Comical defending.
Not really. If you only look at the shot I can see why. Keepers are constantly shifting to occupy an optimal central angle between the goal and the shooter, the point is to reduce available space on either side of the goal. Good positioning also has a deterrent negative effect in that shooters will strain their accuracy trying to beat the keeper. Henderson is often a smidge to either side, he completely takes himself out of the difficulty. The irony here is the people who called out his positioning months ago were far more clued in about keeping than those of us seeing it late and those who haven't even clocked there's a flaw.

You can do everything right and still concede. The deflection wasnt his fault, maybe even the freekick was a misread but the open play screamers aren't an instance of "did everything he should have done". The backheel as well is also stupid to defend. Any shot that goes slightly under you at that speed can realistically be saved, the difference is a matter of reflex. That 4th goal just enters full blown excuse making. De Gea saves those with his feet for breakfast.
 
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Adam-Utd

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Not every goal is his fault, but he certainly doesn't do enough to get close to saving the 'unstoppable' either.

He's just very average but has the self image of Buffon. You can't go saying "i'm the best, my club has screwed me" then perform like every week.
 

Andycoleno9

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As always the massive overly analysing of GK's shows that the majority of people have no clue about Goalkeeping.

First goal massive deflection wrong footed nothing you can do as a GK.

Second goal perfect finish really sweet FA you can do with that either.

Third goal, Damned if you do damned if don't, in hindsight he made a mistake to gamble on it coming over the wall, but if he hadn't done and did go over the wall he would probably be criticised for not gambling on it. Full credit for Madison his gamble of not going over the wall, kept it low and hard aswell, less distance to travel harder for the keeper to pick up.

Fourth goal, you can't anticipate the back heel shot coming through the defenders legs, he does well to get an hand to it because its low towards the corner and Daka gets a good contact on it. It's a good creative finish, as a GK with those you just hope there straight at you or the striker doesn't good enough contact, anything else you are pretty fecked from that distance.

I'm not advocating him as the second coming, he certainly has his flaws as a top level GK but even so I would still rather have Henderson warts and all in-between the sticks than De Gea.

Realistically though we need a serious upgrade in the GK department whatever.

Please, watch little bit of this and then stop with that nonsense "you can't do anything with that".

Can you blame him for most if those goals? Of course not. But from future United's and England's no1 ( :lol: :lol: ), you expect to do some tough saves and save a team. Same as you would demand from United striker to score goals from half chances and "out of nowhere" but from division one striker you will not demand that.
 

Brwned

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As always the massive overly analysing of GK's shows that the majority of people have no clue about Goalkeeping.

First goal massive deflection wrong footed nothing you can do as a GK.

Second goal perfect finish really sweet FA you can do with that either.

Third goal, Damned if you do damned if don't, in hindsight he made a mistake to gamble on it coming over the wall, but if he hadn't done and did go over the wall he would probably be criticised for not gambling on it. Full credit for Madison his gamble of not going over the wall, kept it low and hard aswell, less distance to travel harder for the keeper to pick up.

Fourth goal, you can't anticipate the back heel shot coming through the defenders legs, he does well to get an hand to it because its low towards the corner and Daka gets a good contact on it. It's a good creative finish, as a GK with those you just hope there straight at you or the striker doesn't good enough contact, anything else you are pretty fecked from that distance.

I'm not advocating him as the second coming, he certainly has his flaws as a top level GK but even so I would still rather have Henderson warts and all in-between the sticks than De Gea.

Realistically though we need a serious upgrade in the GK department whatever.
You don’t seem to be acknowledging the fact that the goalkeeper’s positioning and - more importantly - setup of the wall essentially determines what kind of shot the free kick taker can go for. Most of them completely shut off the far post and design the wall so that it has to be a worldie to get into the near post post. Henderson didn’t do that at all. He didn’t have his near post covered, nor did he have the second wall effectively blocking it. Instead he left a spot wide open that neither he nor his wall was covering.

That makes the decision really easy for the kick taker; you don’t need to disguise anything, you don’t need to worry about obstructions, all you need to do is focus on a clean strike into the most direct route to goal. It’s not like he had to get it around the wall. It was nowhere near any player or the keeper. And not only did Henderson not realise the gaping hole, but he doubled down on that error by moving even further away from it.

The reason all this happened is because he has such poor reach that if he covered his near post properly, he’d never be able to get across to the far post. So he leaves bigger gaps than the vast majority of keepers do there, in both situations. And he doesn’t have the reflexes or footwork to recover those situations, nor the positional and organisational sense to mitigate those situations.

Any set piece taker in the Premier League can hit a sweet strike into the far corner, unobstructed. They won’t land it every time but it’s not at all unusual to see someone execute like Maddison in that situation. What is unusual is that scenario even presents itself. Free kicks are the ultimate test of a keeper’s ability to anticipate and obstruct the opposition. They get all the time in the world to plan out the scenario, and essentially no time at all to recover from the mistake.

De Gea has saved a lot of “unstoppable” free kicks in his time. That one against Mata that everyone loves, he dictates the situation from start to finish. He covers the far post so there’s no point in Mata even trying, and at the same time he has the footwork and reach to get back to the near post. It would’ve went in off the post too, and if the keeper gets nowhere near it, it’s called “unstoppable”. He‘s done that loads of times. Henderson on the other hand has loads of examples of judging his angles poorly, and giving himself no chance to make a save once the striker takes the obvious choice.
 

Bebestation

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the free kick literally hit the post and in - didn’t it?
 

Brwned

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If the only thing free kick takers needed to do was hit the post, without having to worry about a wall or a keeper, the majority of free kicks would be scored. That’s not hard for a pro.
 

FrantikChicken

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That free kick is him once again caught dead on his feet and getting beaten at his near post. He concedes a goal in this fashion pretty much every game
 

Longshanks

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Please, watch little bit of this and then stop with that nonsense "you can't do anything with that".

Can you blame him for most if those goals? Of course not. But from future United's and England's no1 ( :lol: :lol: ), you expect to do some tough saves and save a team. Same as you would demand from United striker to score goals from half chances and "out of nowhere" but from division one striker you will not demand that.
A compliation video of 'impossible saves'? Is that meant to be some sort of 'evidence'? You know it's the pits of knowledge when someone brings out a highlights reel of some of the world's best GK pulling of worldies as some sort of stick to beat someone with. De Gea is in that compliation makes some very good saves also has plenty of days like Henderson had last night where he conceded alot and gets nowhere near anything.

Henderson has also had plenty of games in his career and a couple already this season where has made lots of good saves and kept his team in it.

It's often what happens in-between the MOTM performances and the stinkers where it all goes wrong that defines a good GK. Both De Gea and Henderson have flaws no doubts about that but De Geas are unbelievable and essentially stop the team from being able to press high up the pitch and keep possession. Aswell as the obvious fact that in the 10 years and 350 odd games we have never looked anything but very vunerable defensively with De Gea between the sticks but he has no command and no organisational skills.

Henderson is flawed but as it stands right now a much better fit for what we need from a GK.
 

Andycoleno9

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A compliation video of 'impossible saves'? Is that meant to be some sort of 'evidence'? You know it's the pits of knowledge when someone brings out a highlights reel of some of the world's best GK pulling of worldies as some sort of stick to beat someone with. De Gea is in that compliation makes some very good saves also has plenty of days like Henderson had last night where he conceded alot and gets nowhere near anything.

Henderson has also had plenty of games in his career and a couple already this season where has made lots of good saves and kept his team in it.

It's often what happens in-between the MOTM performances and the stinkers where it all goes wrong that defines a good GK. Both De Gea and Henderson have flaws no doubts about that but De Geas are unbelievable and essentially stop the team from being able to press high up the pitch and keep possession. Aswell as the obvious fact that in the 10 years and 350 odd games we have never looked anything but very vunerable defensively with De Gea between the sticks but he has no command and no organisational skills.

Henderson is flawed but as it stands right now a much better fit for what we need from a GK.
Yes, it is an evidence about phrase "he couldn't save that". Which is with Henderson basically every decent shot on target.

Commanding and organisational skills? Better fit than De Gea? Bloody hell, this is still on?
 

Longshanks

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You don’t seem to be acknowledging the fact that the goalkeeper’s positioning and - more importantly - setup of the wall essentially determines what kind of shot the free kick taker can go for. Most of them completely shut off the far post and design the wall so that it has to be a worldie to get into the near post post. Henderson didn’t do that at all. He didn’t have his near post covered, nor did he have the second wall effectively blocking it. Instead he left a spot wide open that neither he nor his wall was covering.

That makes the decision really easy for the kick taker; you don’t need to disguise anything, you don’t need to worry about obstructions, all you need to do is focus on a clean strike into the most direct route to goal. It’s not like he had to get it around the wall. It was nowhere near any player or the keeper. And not only did Henderson not realise the gaping hole, but he doubled down on that error by moving even further away from it.

The reason all this happened is because he has such poor reach that if he covered his near post properly, he’d never be able to get across to the far post. So he leaves bigger gaps than the vast majority of keepers do there, in both situations. And he doesn’t have the reflexes or footwork to recover those situations, nor the positional and organisational sense to mitigate those situations.

Any set piece taker in the Premier League can hit a sweet strike into the far corner, unobstructed. They won’t land it every time but it’s not at all unusual to see someone execute like Maddison in that situation. What is unusual is that scenario even presents itself. Free kicks are the ultimate test of a keeper’s ability to anticipate and obstruct the opposition. They get all the time in the world to plan out the scenario, and essentially no time at all to recover from the mistake.

De Gea has saved a lot of “unstoppable” free kicks in his time. That one against Mata that everyone loves, he dictates the situation from start to finish. He covers the far post so there’s no point in Mata even trying, and at the same time he has the footwork and reach to get back to the near post. It would’ve went in off the post too, and if the keeper gets nowhere near it, it’s called “unstoppable”. He‘s done that loads of times. Henderson on the other hand has loads of examples of judging his angles poorly, and giving himself no chance to make a save once the striker takes the obvious choice.
There is always a gap somewhere no matter how well you set it up, you would have to use a 10 man wall to cover everything and ensure there isnt a gap somewhere and even then the very best set piece takers are more than capable of going up and over a well placed wall from that sort of distance. But what actually happens in this case is the far post gap is covered by a Leicester wall and maddison whips it round the Leicester wall in off the post, compleatly unsighting Henderson. It's an excellent freekick, the only mistake is Henderson gambled on him going over the wall, but it's a 50/50 when it's your day you get it right and claw it out of the top corner when it's not and you get it wrong your just praying they miss.

You could class it as a mistake, but it's the sort of mistake all GK make and get caught out by.
 

phelans shorts

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Look, sometimes strikes are just perfect and there’s nothing anybody could do about it. It does happen.

When it happens every game however, often several times every game, then the goalkeeper is undoubtedly doing something very, very wrong.
 

bosnian_red

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Feck me. There's still people saying they'd rather have Henderson?

And they're seriously not wums or fake United fans?! Mind blowing.
I don't get it. He's not even good with the ball at his feet or in the air, though he does try to be more proactive with his sweeping. But he's entirely average.
 

Anustart89

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Is there a tantrum compilation floating around on the internet? If so, I’d love to see it.
 

OleGunnar20

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Very surprised people are still advocating for this guy. Ability wise he barely looks Premier League level to me. Personality wise, he looks an absolute tool.

I'd be dissapointed to see him in a United shirt again.
 

Champ

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He should and could have done better with the 4th goal last night, that's pure reactions and he was a tad slow to get down.

The free kick he moves too soon, didn't need to move, but he probably wouldn't have saved it anyhow as was sweetly struck.
 

Longshanks

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Yes, it is an evidence about phrase "he couldn't save that". Which is with Henderson basically every decent shot on target.

Commanding and organisational skills? Better fit than De Gea? Bloody hell, this is still on?
Most good saves are poor finishes. But guess what even the very best GK's let in an whole array of 'soft' goals all the time. Henderson, De Gea, Allison, ederson, ramsdale, etc etc go back and look at some of the goals they have conceded in there careers and there will be plenty you look at and can pick fault with from poor posistioning to weak handling, diving the wrong way getting caught flat footed. Happens to all of them an awful lot, that's the gig.

Henderson is not perfect by any stretch of the imagination, definite weakness with his positioning and his angles sometimes. But he is still a better fit for us and a better fit for ETH.
 

Real Name

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I've never seen anything like it. Average keeper who, by some, is a solution to our problem in goal. Despite the fact he's nothing more than, as I said, average or even slightly below that.
 

Bole Top

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"commanding" is basically what "he worked hard" was when winger/striker failed at everything with the ball, but at least he tried/worked hard. same with Hendo, he can't save shit, but at least he commands the area. good for him.
 

RedDevil@84

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As always the massive overly analysing of GK's shows that the majority of people have no clue about Goalkeeping.

First goal massive deflection wrong footed nothing you can do as a GK.

Second goal perfect finish really sweet FA you can do with that either.

Third goal, Damned if you do damned if don't, in hindsight he made a mistake to gamble on it coming over the wall, but if he hadn't done and did go over the wall he would probably be criticised for not gambling on it. Full credit for Madison his gamble of not going over the wall, kept it low and hard aswell, less distance to travel harder for the keeper to pick up.

Fourth goal, you can't anticipate the back heel shot coming through the defenders legs, he does well to get an hand to it because its low towards the corner and Daka gets a good contact on it. It's a good creative finish, as a GK with those you just hope there straight at you or the striker doesn't good enough contact, anything else you are pretty fecked from that distance.

I'm not advocating him as the second coming, he certainly has his flaws as a top level GK but even so I would still rather have Henderson warts and all in-between the sticks than De Gea.

Realistically though we need a serious upgrade in the GK department whatever.
Yup. If we declare all goals as either "unstoppable" or "shit happens", then all GKs are just good, except De Gea of course for whatever reasons.

Edit: And the condescending opening line for the post
 

Andycoleno9

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"commanding" is basically what "he worked hard" was when winger/striker failed at everything with the ball, but at least he tried/worked hard. same with Hendo, he can't save shit, but at least he commands the area. good for him.
"Commanding an area" and "better fit for United" will never die. He can concede 5 goals every game but that excuse will be always there.
I wonder what will be excuse when he gets benched in Forest?
 

Adisa

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His positioning and reach are poor. Makes for a keeper that can't save anything.
 

largelyworried

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Some updated stats comparing him and De Gea this season (plus whoever is top in that category). Out of 21 keepers.

Shot Stopping
(Post Shot xG - Goals Allowed per 90)
1st - Pickford+0.59
16th – Henderson-0.27
17th – De Gea-0.28


Long range pass completion
1st – Ederson56.7%
14th – De Gea33.3%
18th – Henderson31%


Crosses collected
1st – Fabianski13%
20th – De Gea1.5%
21st – Henderson1.4%


Sweeping
(Defensive actions outside the box per 90 mins)
1st – Allison1.57
8th – Henderson1
16th – De Gea0.43

Both as bad as each other.
 

Pogue Mahone

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Some updated stats comparing him and De Gea this season (plus whoever is top in that category). Out of 21 keepers.

Shot Stopping
(Post Shot xG - Goals Allowed per 90)
1st - Pickford+0.59
16th – Henderson-0.27
17th – De Gea-0.28


Long range pass completion
1st – Ederson56.7%
14th – De Gea33.3%
18th – Henderson31%


Crosses collected
1st – Fabianski13%
20th – De Gea1.5%
21st – Henderson1.4%


Sweeping
(Defensive actions outside the box per 90 mins)
1st – Allison1.57
8th – Henderson1
16th – De Gea0.43

Both as bad as each other.
:lol:

Jesus Christ. We sure know how to pick ‘em!
 

ayushreddevil9

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"Commanding an area" and "better fit for United" will never die. He can concede 5 goals every game but that excuse will be always there.
I wonder what will be excuse when he gets benched in Forest?
They liked the grass and wanted to save it.
 

Zetrio2002

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Henderson's weak point is his left side/hand/arm which is also De Gea's weak point.
 

CM

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Some updated stats comparing him and De Gea this season (plus whoever is top in that category). Out of 21 keepers.

Shot Stopping
(Post Shot xG - Goals Allowed per 90)
1st - Pickford+0.59
16th – Henderson-0.27
17th – De Gea-0.28


Long range pass completion
1st – Ederson56.7%
14th – De Gea33.3%
18th – Henderson31%


Crosses collected
1st – Fabianski13%
20th – De Gea1.5%
21st – Henderson1.4%


Sweeping
(Defensive actions outside the box per 90 mins)
1st – Allison1.57
8th – Henderson1
16th – De Gea0.43

Both as bad as each other.
Wow. I've seen a lot of stats about De Gea being among the worst but having two goalkeepers on our books who fit that bill takes some doing. This underlines the point many have been making for a while though - neither of these guys are good enough to start for us.
 

MUnchies

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As always the massive overly analysing of GK's shows that the majority of people have no clue about Goalkeeping.

First goal massive deflection wrong footed nothing you can do as a GK.

Second goal perfect finish really sweet FA you can do with that either.

Third goal, Damned if you do damned if don't, in hindsight he made a mistake to gamble on it coming over the wall, but if he hadn't done and did go over the wall he would probably be criticised for not gambling on it. Full credit for Madison his gamble of not going over the wall, kept it low and hard aswell, less distance to travel harder for the keeper to pick up.

Fourth goal, you can't anticipate the back heel shot coming through the defenders legs, he does well to get an hand to it because its low towards the corner and Daka gets a good contact on it. It's a good creative finish, as a GK with those you just hope there straight at you or the striker doesn't good enough contact, anything else you are pretty fecked from that distance.

I'm not advocating him as the second coming, he certainly has his flaws as a top level GK but even so I would still rather have Henderson warts and all in-between the sticks than De Gea.

Realistically though we need a serious upgrade in the GK department whatever.
Please go watch the second goal again and please look at his positioning, and if you think it was fine then I guess you are clueless as your post.
 

Longshanks

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Please go watch the second goal again and please look at his positioning, and if you think it was fine then I guess you are clueless as your post.
No your right he should take a step to his left to open up the right hand to give Barnes a really easy finish into the other bottom corner while being compleatly unsighted by his own defender.