Debating the pros/cons of the "European Super League"

Tragically Hip

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The real winner of all this is Sancho; he is sure to make the England squad now.
 

predator

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Pros

- OT may likely be extended

- Seeing the best players against each other every week will not get boring for me, for a long time

- the city of Manchester will benefit from the extra tourism and glamour that comes with having 2 teams in the super league and having European giants visit our city 4 or 5 times a month.

- the super league has the opportunity to learn from the mistakes that UEFA, FIFA and the FA have made.

- Platini and Blatter won't know what's hit them.

Cons

- champions league anthem gone along with all the goosebumps of seeing us lineup against a big European powerhouse with the whole show.

- What is the point of it unless you actually have a chance of winning it? What happens if you finish second/runner up? More money?

- clubs lower down the ranks will just feel like their ceilings are limited because they don't have the stature of the super league clubs. This will be devastating for lower league football and for kids dreaming of making it onto the biggest stage when they are older.

- transfer fees will be extortionate in correspondence with inflation as a result of this huge influx of money.

- if we have the same money as Porto, spurs or juventus or any of the clubs then 9/10 players would prefer to live in those places than Manchester. I don't see how we can have the edge in the market. Especially if salary caps come in. Sad but true. Because history and prestige has gone out the window hasn't it?

- given how insensitive the manner of this announcement has been, you can bet your ass these founding fathers just do not give a toss about the fans and for them it's simply a money making scheme.
 

Red Stone

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Pros:
+ United 20 - 19 Pool forever
+ City and Pool never win the league again
+ Minute possibility of Stoke eventually making it into the Super League on a permanent basis, which will finally give every top player the chance to answer that age-old question at least once a year

Cons:
- United stuck on 20 forever
- ESL is shit
- Global warming and/or the heat death of the Universe might remove the possibility of cold Wednesday nights at the Britannia before Stoke make it to permanent membership
 

MO_Football92

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Like Gary Neville said on sky sports yesterday the bigger clubs should know better; Arsenal, Liverpool, United and even Spurs.

I'm especially shocked with Arsenal and Liverpool to be honest.

If this goes ahead I'm done with my club.
 

SER19

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Literally not one Pro.

This whole competition is utterly stupid.
Exactly. Any weak pro we can argue for his totally undermined by how shit it is. Somebody just decided that spurs are bigger than porto, sporting Lisbon, benfica, lyon, ajax, etc. Supporting this is like supporting Netflix vs amazon prime
 

RedRonaldo

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Pros
- our club will receive more income
- will not be bother to watch cold Wednesday night football vs Stoke City anymore
- players like VDB will finally get to play lots of games in PL
- we longer have any issues to choose between De Gea and Henderson, as they will both play 30+ games per season.

Cons
- Our history will get reset, nothing matter except super league titles
- CL will become new Europa, PL will become new FA cup, FA cup will become new league cup, league cup will become new pre-seasons etc
- fighting for top 4 in PL will no longer be relevant, it will be like fighting for a Europa spot, which nobody cares
 

RoyH1

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Pro's:
UEFA's little deal backroom gets blasted.
State owned clubs can now be limited with spending rules/caps.

Con's:
Makes a mockery of national leagues
Dilutes competition
What is Spurs doing there again?
 

UnrelatedPsuedo

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One good thing that I could see coming out of this is a control on agent fees. If all of the money is in the European Super League and all of the clubs in it refuse to pay over a certain amount for agent fees (or none at all), then fat f*cks like Raiola can't play their usual game anymore.
No chance.
 

Mb194dc

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As a closed shop it will destroy the domestic leagues. Permanent teams in the super league will have a giant financial advantage and nothing to play for if not in the title race.

If it was on merit based admission accross all top European leagues, it could work. Like a much better version of the CL.

Will be surprised if it goes as is ahead because of the damage the current plans would do to teams outside of the permanent 15.
 

Ixion

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Pros
- will not be bother to watch cold Wednesday night football vs Stoke City anymore
Is that actually a pro? There are lots of great games and nights we've had at clubs like Stoke, Sunderland, Palace, West Brom, the Sheffield clubs. English football is about all of these kind of games, not just the ones against plastic City and Liverpool
 

RedRonaldo

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Is that actually a pro? There are lots of great games and nights we've had at clubs like Stoke, Sunderland, Palace, West Brom, the Sheffield clubs. English football is about all of these kind of games, not just the ones against plastic City and Liverpool
Yeh it could be a con for some, it’s only a pro when one considered its better watching higher quality games in terms of entertainment value, rather than vs more variety of opponents.
 

Ixion

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Yeh it could be a con for some, it’s only a pro when one considered its better watching higher quality games in terms of entertainment value, rather than vs more variety of opponents.
But your argument is games against those clubs are not entertaining? I could find you plenty of games against those teams that had huge entertainment value.
 

Berbasbullet

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I feel like it’s almost like the clubs fighting back against the oil clubs (even if the oil clubs are in the league), ultimately Madrid and Barcelona et al, are probably worried that they will become more and more irrelevant.
 

RedRonaldo

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But your argument is games against those clubs are not entertaining? I could find you plenty of games against those teams that had huge entertainment value.
Sure the match itself could be entertaining, but the quality itself may not be entertaining for some. Would majority prefer to pay to watch Man Utd vs City/ Real, or rather vs Stoke City?
 

Ixion

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Sure the match itself could be entertaining, but the quality itself may not be entertaining for some. Would majority prefer to pay to watch Man Utd vs City/ Real, or rather vs Stoke City?
Like I said, matches against teams like that can be just as entertaining, so why would I not want to see them? I can point you to plenty of dud games against City and Liverpool and crackers against Everton and Newcastle. And why would I want to see United given special status and clubs like Newcastle, Everton, Villa etc not? I'm not a selfish prick.
 

RedRonaldo

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Like I said, matches against teams like that can be just as entertaining, so why would I not want to see them? I can point you to plenty of dud games against City and Liverpool and crackers against Everton and Newcastle. And why would I want to see United given special status and clubs like Newcastle, Everton, Villa etc not? I'm not a selfish prick.
But not all of them are as entertaining as you’ve made, you never know how entertaining until you watch. Would you rather watching 2 groups of worldclass players competing against each other, or 1 groups of worldclass playing against another group of hardworking workhorse? Perhaps the later one would represent a more entertaining value for you sometimes? But I doubt majority would share the same preference.
 

Ixion

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But not all of them are as entertaining as you’ve made, you never know how entertaining until you watch. Would you rather watching 2 groups of worldclass players competing against each other, or 1 groups of worldclass playing against another group of hardworking workhorse? Perhaps the later one would represent a more entertaining value for you sometimes? But I doubt majority would share the same preference.
Again, all you're thinking about is United. It is a selfish and spoilt point of view. If this was set-up in the 80s and Everton, Forest, Villa were all founding members and could never be relegated and United were out in the wilderness forever that would have seemed OK to you?
 

youmeletsfly

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Pro's:
- higher calibre of footie
- minus uefa/fifa should mean less corruption and easier changes in rules/laws/etc
- maybe -> more money to clubs -> better investment
- more quality games without the dogshit teams that usually reach the UCL each year
- better evolution of players
- less agents interference in transfers (maybe, dunno)


Con's:
- might get kicked out of local competitions(but very unlikely, considering the calibre of teams we're talking about)
- maybe -> more money to clubs -> more money in owner's pockets
- big clubs overpowering the others for their players (already happening anyway)
- ESL can be, in a way, an incentive for clubs to grow only by huge investments and not organically (already happening anyway) - can be looked at the other way around - ESL clubs buying players from small clubs at very inflated prices
- bigger salaries to players
 

RedRonaldo

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Again, all you're thinking about is United. It is a selfish and spoilt point of view. If this was set-up in the 80s and Everton, Forest, Villa were all founding members and could never be relegated and United were out in the wilderness forever that would have seemed OK to you?
Sure it’s selfish view from me, as I only support Man Utd, why would I concern about future of other clubs which I never give a shit about? But if I am fans of Everton or Leicester City, I’d probably be very pissed about it.

But saying that, I don’t really support moving to super league, as its like reseting the history of the club, which I don’t like. But if that really happens, I will just go along with that.
 

Siorac

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Pro: This is a credible threat that can force UEFA to reform.
Any reform that this might force is a reform in the wrong direction. The rumoured new Champions League format was already bad enough, with certain 'legacy' clubs guaranteed entry every season and apparently, that wasn't enough for the Greed Gang.

It really is just a spit in the face for the whole idea of European competition.
 

Tom Cato

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Pros

- OT may likely be extended

- Seeing the best players against each other every week will not get boring for me, for a long time

- the city of Manchester will benefit from the extra tourism and glamour that comes with having 2 teams in the super league and having European giants visit our city 4 or 5 times a month.

- the super league has the opportunity to learn from the mistakes that UEFA, FIFA and the FA have made.

- Platini and Blatter won't know what's hit them.

Cons

- champions league anthem gone along with all the goosebumps of seeing us lineup against a big European powerhouse with the whole show.

- What is the point of it unless you actually have a chance of winning it? What happens if you finish second/runner up? More money?

- clubs lower down the ranks will just feel like their ceilings are limited because they don't have the stature of the super league clubs. This will be devastating for lower league football and for kids dreaming of making it onto the biggest stage when they are older.

- transfer fees will be extortionate in correspondence with inflation as a result of this huge influx of money.

- if we have the same money as Porto, spurs or juventus or any of the clubs then 9/10 players would prefer to live in those places than Manchester. I don't see how we can have the edge in the market. Especially if salary caps come in. Sad but true. Because history and prestige has gone out the window hasn't it?

- given how insensitive the manner of this announcement has been, you can bet your ass these founding fathers just do not give a toss about the fans and for them it's simply a money making scheme.
The infrastructure around the stadium requires an overhaul for about £800m, that includes moving train tracks, forcing homeowners out of their homes, and quite a bit of cityplanning, before the stadium can be extended.

There's been cost estimates done on this before and the location of Old Trafford simply isn't able to defend the cost.

The only alternative is a new stadium.
 

Markus3

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I would imagine that if the ESL does start, then the clubs involved will only BE able to spend money that they generate
therefore negating the oil money, everyone will be at an equal level, which is why I suppose that this has been started
UEFA were unable to stop the influence of the oil money to the traditional big clubs power
 

Stacks

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Cons: won't it create a 2 tiered footballing system or exasverrate it? I hear the teams in the Euroleague are making bank and since other teams may be closed from it (Leicester, West Ham potentially) how do they get the opportunity to compete with the Arsenal's and Spurs if they aren't able to get some of that money ever? they could just lose all their players to the superleague sides

maybe when details come out we will see that there is promotion/relegation?
 

theklr

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Only thing i can see is cap on transfers/salaries to even out the playing field.
 

::sonny::

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All the games will be played in dubai, saudi arabia and qatar, if you live there, could be good
 

GBBQ

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Cons -
The CL becomes meaningless, the holy grail that made the treble so amazing is now the new Europa League (the Europa League is downgraded to intertoto cup status)
We'll never catch Liverpool's 6 CL/European Cups.
Our owners are not going to invest to compete; we'll become filthy rich mid table fodder
The Premier League becomes meaningless

Pros -
Uh I guess that some midtable PL team can now play in the "Champions" league by finishing 10th
 

aka380

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There are winners and losers of every transaction.

I'm just glad for once, we're one of the winners and actually got invited. But I'm sad, Spurs also made it.
Us and Liverpool are the ringleaders for SL. We dint get invited, we created it.
 

Nytram Shakes

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Pros:
  • I'm gonna be honest the early rounds of the champions league and the Europa league are generally dire. Having a league format set up full of top well-funded teams with the worlds top players is likley going to be far more fun to watch.
  • Financially if your one of these clubs it will be great. I know you wouldn't know by reading the transfer page of this forum and I know fans don't want to hear it all they want is us to spend hundreds of millions on players, but the club has haemorrhaged money over the pandemic. Even before the pandemic, we were hardly making massive profits cos we were spending so much on wages and transfers. The price of wages and transfers is just getting ridiculous. You look at Barcelona who is really in a financial mess. As there is no sign of a wage cap or a lowering of transfer fee's then-new revenues were going to need to be found for top clubs to keep functioning as they have. this is it.
Cons:
  • It will massively water own the importance of the domestic game. while obviously currently the champions league is the biggest trophy in club football, winning the premier league isn't that far behind. I suspect the super league would massively change that and the PL will definitely be seen as secondary trophy.
  • It is going to massively affect the clubs not in the super league, right now the tv deals and sponsorship deals to the premier league are massive. It is very possible that will shrink as the focus becomes more on the super league. This will have a huge effect on the premier league making the revenue difference between the teams in the super league and those not enormous. This will further dilute the drawing power of the premier league over time, which will have a huge financial impact on the game.
  • If the super league did go ahead any financial advantage premier league clubs have had over the Spanish clubs will evaporate very quickly. The financial strength of the premier league in recent years has given them massive strength in the transfer market, which has offset to an extent player's preferring to play in the more pleasant climates provided by Madrid and Barcelona. You take that advantage away and Madrid and Barca are going to dominate the transfer market, with British clubs getting very much second pickings of the players.
 

talking robot

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Any reform that this might force is a reform in the wrong direction. The rumoured new Champions League format was already bad enough, with certain 'legacy' clubs guaranteed entry every season and apparently, that wasn't enough for the Greed Gang.

It really is just a spit in the face for the whole idea of European competition.
I more meant a possible reaction at the regulatory level because the SL is such a wretched idea, not the big clubs just taking over. UEFA may accept deeper reforms now (e.g. regarding financial fair play) to avoid all out civil war in football. Government may even get involved in obliging reform. If they are ever going to change how UEFA works, something of this magnitude is needed. I agree with you though it could all go in the wrong direction in the end.
 

17Larsson

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They wanted to play in the super league as well as the premier league. If UEFA/FA don't allow them to continue in their domestic leagues I assume they won't go ahead with it?
 

Crashoutcassius

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pros...
- see bigger teams play regularly (also a con),
- more money for our club if we are selfish

cons... very very many, but main ones for me
- strips away nearly all competitiveness from the prem by meaning first only matters and adding so many mid week games that clubs will start resting players.
- Takes away financial benefits to being competitive, which means owners like the glazers will stop investing in players.... people say united will have more money, but players will be more expensive, like when they started the bike to work scheme in dublin for up to 1000 and all bikes that previously cost 500 now cost 1000
- makes it impossible for new clubs to break into the frame, whether through investment ala city or hard work ala leicester
- Probably signals end for domestic competition for these teams, just depends how long it takes, but the SL will want the weekend prime time and the league will become so meaningless.
 

Siorac

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I more meant a possible reaction at the regulatory level because the SL is such a wretched idea, not the big clubs just taking over. UEFA may accept deeper reforms now (e.g. regarding financial fair play) to avoid all out civil war in football. Government may even get involved in obliging reform. If they are ever going to change how UEFA works, something of this magnitude is needed. I agree with you though it could all go in the wrong direction in the end.
Here's the thing though: the only way to avoid that all-out civil war is if UEFA basically caves in and grants the biggest clubs the closed shop format they've been working towards for years now. What deeper reforms would possibly satisfy these clubs that came up with this idea?
 

Ixion

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When these Superleague games are being played in Dubai, Singapore, Miami etc. and the local fans of the club and being priced out of it will those in favour still be happy?
 

Nytram Shakes

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Pros

- OT may likely be extended

- Seeing the best players against each other every week will not get boring for me, for a long time

- the city of Manchester will benefit from the extra tourism and glamour that comes with having 2 teams in the super league and having European giants visit our city 4 or 5 times a month.

- the super league has the opportunity to learn from the mistakes that UEFA, FIFA and the FA have made.

- Platini and Blatter won't know what's hit them.

Cons

- champions league anthem gone along with all the goosebumps of seeing us lineup against a big European powerhouse with the whole show.

- What is the point of it unless you actually have a chance of winning it? What happens if you finish second/runner up? More money?

- clubs lower down the ranks will just feel like their ceilings are limited because they don't have the stature of the super league clubs. This will be devastating for lower league football and for kids dreaming of making it onto the biggest stage when they are older.

- transfer fees will be extortionate in correspondence with inflation as a result of this huge influx of money.

- if we have the same money as Porto, spurs or juventus or any of the clubs then 9/10 players would prefer to live in those places than Manchester. I don't see how we can have the edge in the market. Especially if salary caps come in. Sad but true. Because history and prestige has gone out the window hasn't it?

- given how insensitive the manner of this announcement has been, you can bet your ass these founding fathers just do not give a toss about the fans and for them it's simply a money making scheme.
Great post, agree with all your points, but unpopular opinion I've always hated the champions league anthem :angel:
 

Bebestation

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Less time we would have a GOAT like Messi try his best in another league. Now we just have him playing against the best teams on paper rather than the pitch, week after week.
 

Nytram Shakes

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When these Superleague games are being played in Dubai, Singapore, Miami etc. and the local fans of the club and being priced out of it will those in favour still be happy?
I don't think that will happen that regularly, just because the odd game would bring in money, but you have to remember all these clubs have massive stadiums which bring in a massive revenue, plus i would negate home and away value. So i suspect it wouldnt happen that often.


The tournament at the end of the season maybe is played at global locations I suppose.
 

Hammondo

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pros...
- see bigger teams play regularly (also a con),
- more money for our club if we are selfish

cons... very very many, but main ones for me
- strips away nearly all competitiveness from the prem by meaning first only matters and adding so many mid week games that clubs will start resting players.
- Takes away financial benefits to being competitive, which means owners like the glazers will stop investing in players.... people say united will have more money, but players will be more expensive, like when they started the bike to work scheme in dublin for up to 1000 and all bikes that previously cost 500 now cost 1000
- makes it impossible for new clubs to break into the frame, whether through investment ala city or hard work ala leicester
- Probably signals end for domestic competition for these teams, just depends how long it takes, but the SL will want the weekend prime time and the league will become so meaningless.
This sums up my feelings. Honestly I would have no respect for any of the teams in the super league and basically its immoral imo.
 

Tincanalley

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Well think of Pro Wrestling. It's not a competition. It's an exhibition. It's a franchise. It's all about image. It's a con. That's the con. The pro? Oh that would be Mr Glazer. He's a real pro.