Decision to not bring in Dean Henderson

[Greck]

It's actually baffling. Like you can check my posts for pre match and I said 3 or 4 times that If it goes to penalities we have to change keeper.

If I know that how do our coaches not.

Sure it's shite for De Gea. But guess what losing the final is even worse.

People saying it's not common don't realise most teams dont have to sub because their number 1 GK is either decent enough at penalties or there isn't much between their 1 and 2 to justify a sub. We're in a peculiar situation where our number 1 is certified bad with penalties, not below average but bad.

If a poll was made before the match a majority would have been in favour of a sub because of how well known De Gea's weakness with penalties has been for a couple years now. Quite a few even predicted we'd do just that

 

[JJ12]

And if that went tits up we’d have a different thread whinging about something else.

We were shit on the night, time to move on.

 

[Pow]

I can think of literally one instance where a manager has subbed his keeper just before a penalty shoot out at this level and that was that madman LVG at the 2014 World Cup.

To blame Ole for not doing this smacks of people who think real world football is FIFA. If anything the decision to start De Gea at all is more open to question, but I understand why he stuck by him given he was in the line up which got us to the final in the first place.

Sarri tried to in a final...

 

[Ixion]

Swapping the keeper for penalties should be less unusual now with more substitutions available. We just didn't take advantage of it.

 

[Name Changed]

If we'd have brought Henderson on and lost, the inquisition would instead be asking why we didn't keep de Gea on.

Exactly. He was never taking off De Gea.

 

[Greck]

Exactly. He was never taking off De Gea.

No one who has watched United longer than a year would question De Gea being taken off penalties. One would have to really really hate Ole to use that against him

 

[Name Changed]

No one who has watched United longer than a year would question De Gea being taken off penalties. One would have to really really hate Ole to use that against him

I'm not saying he shouldn't have done it. I'm saying he was never going to do it.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

still cropping out the rest of my point. If you think we only lost it because of Ole not subbing in Hendo - so be it. Far more concerning what happened in the 90 minutes as it keeps happening over and over in games.

I’m not debating the rest of your post am I clearly? Cause I obviously fecking agree with you.

 

[Highfather_24]

And if you sub in a keeper for penalties it plays a mindgame with the Villareal players because they are thinking "damn he must be a penalty expert"..

 

[Siorac]

No one who has watched United longer than a year would question De Gea being taken off penalties. One would have to really really hate Ole to use that against him

Heck, someone started a thread the moment extra time was over that De Gea wouldn't save a single penalty. I won't even say it was prophetic, it was simply obvious.

But I agree with those who say this is very far down the list of the issues and mistakes of yesterday's final.

 

[Devil77]

He got a hand on a couple didn't he?

Their keeper did worse, letting Shaw and a couple of others sneak in.

He only saved a fellow keeper's pen and let 10 in himself.

That's obviously a fair take on it.

 

[sullydnl]

I don't think the decision to leave De Gea on for penalties was as bad as the decision to leave Rashford on for the full 120 minutes. Or indeed the decision in a previous game to leave Fred on even though he was clearly going to get sent off.

In isolation you can say he should have done it but there were bigger issues at play yesterday, some of which have been present for long stretches of Solskjaer's reign as manager. I'd have more of an issue with it in the context of him regularly having no impact of his substitutions rather than it being a major mistake in itself.

I mean sure, he could have prepped the goalkeepers this week to let them know Henderson would be coming on if it went to penalties. But then he could also have prepped us to adequately defend set-pieces at some point throughout the entire season. I'd rather he had done the latter than the former and it would have helped us more yesterday too.

 

[McTerminator]

And what about young Henderson? How is that fair on him to take the brunt of the responsibility in such a big occasion. Bizarre decision that only bizarre people could ever make

ideally Henderson played the whole game.

I believe Ole subbed Greenwood for exactly the reason you are making and I actually understood and agreed with that.

However, winning the shootout was possible without him. Winning a shootout with DDG is not possible. That’s the difference and anyone with the ambition to win would make that change.

 

[crossy1686]

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[mancan92]

Exactly. He was never taking off De Gea.

That's a strawman as it Gets. Everyone knows de gea is terrible at penalties so no know would of batted an eyelid. If Henderson then worse all it would of shown is he's crap at pens aswell and we probably need a keeper who can actually save one.

 

[Botim]

The decision to leave on De Gea just screams passiveness.

Their stats before this game in the last 5 years:

De Gea: stopped 0/25 = 0%
Henderson: stopped 8/17 = 47%

There's a quote in one of Ole's post-match interviews that perfectly illustrates this attitude:

Despite winning the toss to decide which team takes their penalty first, United’s skipper on the night Bruno Fernandes chose to go second – even though statistically that is a disadvantage.
Solskjaer, though, played down the importance of the midfielder’s decision and was happy with how his penalty takers performed.
‘I’ve not asked Bruno who won the toss, I let him get on with it,’ explained the Norwegian.

How the hell can you be so carefree with huge decisions like that??? Do you think Guardiola would tell his captain in a final: "If we win the toss, just do whatever you want"

 

[groovyalbert]

The decision to leave on De Gea just screams passiveness.

Their stats before this game in the last 5 years:

De Gea: stopped 0/25 = 0%
Henderson: stopped 8/17 = 47%

There's a quote in one of Ole's post-match interviews that perfectly illustrates this attitude:



How the hell can you be so carefree with huge decisions like that??? Do you think Guardiola would tell his captain in a final: "If we win the toss, just do whatever you want"

I thought I heard the commentators say we won the toss!!

I assumed I'd misheard as we ended up going second against the backdrop of the Villarreal fans! That was a way worse decision than not subbing De Gea.

 

[UnitedSofa]

The decision to leave on De Gea just screams passiveness.

Their stats before this game in the last 5 years:

De Gea: stopped 0/25 = 0%
Henderson: stopped 8/17 = 47%

There's a quote in one of Ole's post-match interviews that perfectly illustrates this attitude:



How the hell can you be so carefree with huge decisions like that??? Do you think Guardiola would tell his captain in a final: "If we win the toss, just do whatever you want"

It’s called trusting your players.

 

[mancan92]

It’s called trusting your players.

Or passiveness and an inability to make decisions

 

[Ayush_reddevil]

It’s called trusting your players.

Sorry but this is not a sunday league team. A professional billion dollar organisation should be doing better

 

[UnitedSofa]

Or passiveness and an inability to make decisions

So Ole should Micro Manage the team now? That’s a new one!

 

[Botim]

So Ole should Micro Manage the team now? That’s a new one!

Do you honestly think SAF (or Pep) would have been so lax as to tell his captain: you just go ahead and decide whatever you want?

No way, he would at the very least have given him instructions.

This isn't a random toss up, there's clear statistical evidence that going first improves your chances of winning a shoot-out!

 

[mancan92]

So Ole should Micro Manage the team now? That’s a new one!

Thats literally his job the best managers notice the details of a game.

 

[Ixion]

There's a quote in one of Ole's post-match interviews that perfectly illustrates this attitude:



How the hell can you be so carefree with huge decisions like that??? Do you think Guardiola would tell his captain in a final: "If we win the toss, just do whatever you want"

fecking hell Bruno.

 

[Amar__]

People talking about emotion and man management, Fergie picked fecking Michael Owen ahead of Berbatov for Champions league final and left out Berba completely from the bench even though he had a very good season that year, for tactical reasons. Emotions and man management play part during the season, but it's the most important game of last few seasons, you play your best player in certain position when you can.

 

[VidaRed]

Apparently DDG was handed notes on every villareal player and he ignored a few of them including to stay put for that very player who smashed it down the middle. It was the 4th one i think, if he followed the instructions and saved it then it was upto fred to put the 5th one away and seal the win.

 

[HailtotheKing]

And if that went tits up we’d have a different thread whinging about something else.

We were shit on the night, time to move on.

We were shit on the night and our manager did nothing. If it went tits up no one could blame him, because his decision made sense. It wasn't like oh we're replacing you cos you're not great, and I think this guy is a bit better. It was more you have never saved a penalty in your life, so, no hard feeling but I'm switching to the guy that has. Not saying no one would have blame him. But at least it made sense.

 

[HailtotheKing]

It’s called trusting your players.

You trust your players when they have proven worthy of your trust. Dave as a keeper, yeah. Right decision. Dave as a penalty keeper. Not really. Those figures are incredible. How can you trust your player when he has a 0% record compared to 47%.